Logs on 2024-11-18 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:01:25 | <Axman6> | yeah the RIO approach (or similar ReaderT Env IO ideas) get you a very long way. it's pretty easy to do things like `inDB :: DB a -> ReaderT Env IO a` which runs a transaction inside your reader |
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| 00:39:24 | <Leary> | SrPx: Note that if you use 'mtl' monad-polymorphically then performance will become unreliable for cross-module inlining reasons. Consider using a modern effect system like 'effectful' or 'bluefin' instead. |
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| 14:41:56 | <k`> | Is it possible to include GADT constraints in a pattern synonym? I'm trying to do something like `pattern ()=> (a ~ Int)=> Bool -> Foo a ; pattern Foo b <- (unpack -> b) where Foo x = Foo__ (pack x)`, and I get type error "Couldn't match type 'a' with 'Bool'". |
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| 14:44:15 | <k`> | The GHC docs seem to imply that that's how the second set of constraints works, but I can't get the type to check. |
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| 14:50:11 | <dolio> | What is the type of unpack? |
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| 14:52:43 | <dolio> | Presumably the problem is that it just returns a boolean, which means that it doesn't actually get you the a ~ Int evidence that you say it has. |
| 14:53:14 | <dolio> | You need it to produce a type that is a Boolean with evidence that you're going to match on. |
| 14:54:12 | <dolio> | Like `data Witness c a where Wit :: c => a -> Witness c a` |
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| 14:55:21 | <Wygulmage> | Sorry, so the GADT is `data Foo a where Foo__ :: Int -> Foo Bool |
| 14:55:38 | <Wygulmage> | type of unpack is Int -> Bool |
| 14:55:56 | <dolio> | Right, but what type is `unpack`? |
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| 14:57:10 | <dolio> | Oh I see. Anyway, it doesn't matter. It just swaps around the problem. |
| 14:57:12 | <Wygulmage> | (actually `Int# -> Bool`, if that matters.) |
| 14:57:51 | <Wygulmage> | I assumed that strictly matching the GADT constructor Foo__ in the view pattern would bring the constraint into scope. |
| 14:58:49 | <dolio> | It does in unpack. But what is the type of unpack ? |
| 14:59:09 | <Wygulmage> | `unpack :: Int# -> Bool` |
| 14:59:24 | <dolio> | Okay, so, it only returns a Bool, not evidence that `a ~ Int`. |
| 14:59:58 | <Wygulmage> | Right. Can I give it a type like `Int# -> (a ~ Bool)=> a` ? |
| 15:00:14 | <dolio> | You could, but that's not the right type. |
| 15:01:45 | <dolio> | The right type is something like `Foo a -> Witness (a ~ Bool) ...` |
| 15:03:33 | <Wygulmage> | Sorry, sorry, I had messed this up at the beginning. In desperation I had changed the pattern to `Foo b <- (\ (Foo_ i) -> unpack i -> b` |
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| 15:05:22 | <Wygulmage> | Does a view pattern like that not bring `Foo__` 's constraints into scope? Do I need to return something like `(# b, Refl #)` ? |
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| 15:05:41 | <dolio> | Maybe you want `Foo u <- Foo_ (unpack -> u)` |
| 15:06:59 | <Wygulmage> | dolio: Thank you! I did not know that was legal syntax! |
| 15:07:17 | <dolio> | It's just using a view pattern nested under a normal pattern. |
| 15:07:35 | <dolio> | That way the Foo__ match gets you the evidence. |
| 15:08:00 | <dolio> | If you put it all in a function, then the function won't be returning the evidence unless you give it a more complicated return type. |
| 15:08:01 | <Wygulmage> | I'm pretty ignorant of view pattern syntax. I only use them when I need smart constructors in pattern synonyms. |
| 15:08:23 | <Wygulmage> | Anyway, that works perfectly. |
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| 15:20:51 | <Wygulmage> | So here's a semirelated question: Do UNPACK pragmas do anything to UnliftedTypes? For example, my understanding is that `ByteArray#` is a reference to a GC-managed reference to a memory region of metadata and bytes. If you try to UNPACK the `ByteArray` into a lifted constructor `Bar Int# !ByteArray#` , is the result a reference to an `Int#` and a |
| 15:20:52 | <Wygulmage> | GC-managed reference to a memory region of metadata and bytes? Or is it a reference to ( an `Int#` and a reference to a GC managed...)? |
| 15:24:24 | <Wygulmage> | Is there a way to check by looking at the dumped .simpl file for the module? |
| 15:24:27 | <dolio> | I'm not sure what you're asking. You can't unpack the ByteArray# stuff directly into the constructor of another type (to my knowledge) if that's what you mean. |
| 15:24:50 | <dolio> | So the ByteArray# will still be an indirection. |
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| 15:25:19 | <dolio> | In a manner of speaking. |
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| 15:28:22 | <Wygulmage> | For what it's worth, GHC does not complain about an UNPACK pragma on a ByteArray#. And I assume that if I define my own unlifted types, I can unpack them (because they are still boxed). |
| 15:28:40 | <dolio> | Basically, Bar contains two words (I think), one of which is the Int# and one which is the pointer to the byte array structure. |
| 15:30:34 | <Wygulmage> | The byte array structure as in the actual memory region, or another pointer (to GC-managed memory if unpinned and pinned memory if pinned) to the actual allocated memory? |
| 15:32:08 | <dolio> | It's not just a pointer to the beginning of the bytes, because byte arrays e.g. know their length. |
| 15:32:26 | <dolio> | It's a structure. |
| 15:33:38 | <dolio> | I don't know exactly how it's represented, though. I guess the structure could be all packed together instead of involving another pointer. |
| 15:34:56 | <Wygulmage> | Right. I think we're talking past each other. My understanding is that a ByteArray# is a pointer to another pointer to flat memory that consists of length in bytes and then the bytes. I'm wondering whether unpacking the ByteArray# lifts gets rid of that first pointer, |
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| 15:35:31 | <Wygulmage> | (because GC can rewrite the pointer to actual memory inside the lifted structure that it's been unpacked into) |
| 15:35:59 | <dolio> | You can only unpack data types. |
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| 15:37:35 | <Wygulmage> | Right. So UnliftedTypes are inside strict boxes (pointers) that allow the garbage collector to manage them. Does unpacking an unlifted type get rid of that box? |
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| 15:39:24 | <dolio> | Are you asking about ByteArray#? Then the answer is no, because it's not defined with data. It's a built-in. |
| 15:40:09 | <dolio> | If you're asking about a data definition with a specified kind of UnliftedType, then I'm less certain. I think the answer might still be no. |
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| 15:40:35 | <Wygulmage> | OK, thanks. |
| 15:40:44 | <Wygulmage> | That's exactly what I wanted to know. |
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| 15:43:52 | <Wygulmage> | So a polymorphic `data Baz ( a :: UnliftedType ) = MkBaz Int# a` will have an equivalent in-memory representation to `data BazBytes = MkMazBytes Int# ByteArray#` when `a` is instantiated to `ByteArray#` |
| 15:44:40 | <Wygulmage> | I was wondering whether the polymorphism would introduce an extra layer of indirection. |
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| 15:47:27 | <Wygulmage> | It's nice to be able to have the `Baz` wrapper for `Array#`, `ByteArray#`, `MutableByteArray#`, etc., but at this low level, not if it creates an extra indirection. |
| 15:49:03 | <dolio> | It appears that if `type F :: UnliftedType` is declared, then `data G = G {-# unpack #-} !F` does not actually unpack F. |
| 15:49:49 | <dolio> | You can see this by messing around with -ddump-simpl. |
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| 15:50:13 | <Wygulmage> | That is very good to know. |
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| 15:50:51 | <dolio> | When F is not UnliftedType, a G value ends up looking like: `floobnar = Up.G 5# 6#` |
| 15:51:29 | <dolio> | But the UnliftedType version is: `floobnar = Up.G (Up.F 5# 6#)` |
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| 15:53:12 | <Wygulmage> | Huh. I wonder whether that's a bug or a feature. |
| 15:53:47 | <dolio> | I don't know. I guess they figured you wouldn't be unpacking unlifted data types into other types. |
| 15:54:08 | <dolio> | Certainly there's no reason you couldn't. |
| 15:54:52 | <Wygulmage> | I assumed that GHC would unpack anything of `BoxedRep r`, regardless of whether `r` was lifted or unlifted. |
| 15:55:04 | <Wygulmage> | I guess it operates at a less general level. |
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| 16:18:38 | <dolio> | You should probably check if UnliftedType omits other optimizations. E.G. does GHC still do constructed product returns for them? |
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| 16:35:28 | <Leonard26> | Hello! =D How are you? |
| 16:35:28 | <Leonard26> | I am trying to follow the tutorial/blog on ReaderT https://tech.fpcomplete.com/blog/2017/06/readert-design-pattern/ |
| 16:35:29 | <Leonard26> | I was asking myself if given the following line `var <- newTVarIO (1 :: Int)` one could then use it in a different function outside of main? |
| 16:35:29 | <Leonard26> | Like so https://paste.tomsmeding.com/IyjbMmtV |
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| 16:37:36 | <ncf> | pass var as an argument |
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| 16:40:33 | <Leonard26> | You mean like so? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/5unyMRGn |
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| 16:44:05 | <ncf> | well obviously you need to call newFunc from main |
| 16:44:46 | <Leonard26> | yes, right, sorry I forgot '=D |
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| 17:10:11 | <zzz> | is there any potencial performance difference between using the State monad and threading manually like this?: https://paste.jrvieira.com/1731949754002 |
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| 17:22:30 | <zzz> | i guess i could create a new IntMap and update it each step instead of appending to a linked list and then using IntMap.fromList but other than that |
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| 17:24:04 | <geekosaur> | if ghc's doing its thing correctly, the state monad should get optimized down to the manual version |
| 17:24:09 | <zzz> | and then again maybe not. i guess IntMap.fromList can be more performant than IntMap.insert every step |
| 17:24:40 | <geekosaur> | (but you'd need to inspect Core to find out) |
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| 17:24:59 | <geekosaur> | and yes, especially if it's going to be a large tree I'd `fromList` at the end |
| 17:25:25 | <zzz> | i actually prefer not using State in this particular instance |
| 17:25:27 | <zzz> | thanks |
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| 17:52:58 | <iteratee> | Chased down an interesting bug recently. I was trying to set up direct QUIC access to a server I have running. |
| 17:53:26 | <iteratee> | My load balancer will answer requests via QUIC, but will only connect downstream via TCP. |
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| 17:54:58 | <iteratee> | so I created a UDP load balancer that went directly to my webserver. This means that the webserver needs the correct certificates to answer with quic. |
| 17:55:50 | <iteratee> | I was getting certificate issues with the direct connection that I wasn't getting with the same certificate served by my reverse proxy. |
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| 17:58:18 | <iteratee> | it turned out that `credentialLoadX509` and `credentialLoadX509FromMemory` were returning the certificates in differing orders. |
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| 17:59:24 | <iteratee> | with the root cause buried in the crypton-x509-store library. |
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| 18:36:29 | <briandaed> | iteratee: was it somehow related to https://github.com/haskell-tls/hs-certificate/issues/31 |
| 18:36:32 | <briandaed> | ? |
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| 19:47:54 | <SrPx> | quick question about how IO and laziness mix. consider the following Haskell program: |
| 19:47:58 | <SrPx> | gen = do print "A"; return 1 |
| 19:48:03 | <SrPx> | make = do x <- gen; y <- gen; z <- gen; return (x, y, z) |
| 19:48:06 | <SrPx> | main = do (x, y, z) <- make; print x |
| 19:48:20 | <SrPx> | obviously, it will print "A" 3 times, because we run all the lines of the "make" function |
| 19:48:46 | <SrPx> | yet, we only ever observe "x". as such, in a full lazy sense, it should only print "A" once |
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| 19:48:57 | <SrPx> | I know that's not how IO works - |
| 19:49:40 | <SrPx> | that said, on my application, I do need the ability to do IO inside "pure" functions (because I'm using C FFI for performance), but I'd also like these IO's to only be executed when necessary, i.e., lazily |
| 19:50:15 | <SrPx> | is there any idiomatic way to modify the 'make' function so that "A" will be printed once if 'main' prints 'x', yet "A" will be printed 3 times if 'main' prints '(x,y,z)? |
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| 19:52:06 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> unsafePerformIO, I think |
| 19:52:20 | <davean> | SrPx: what does C FFI have to do with pure functions? |
| 19:52:21 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> not idiomatic, but I think that'd be the simple way |
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| 19:52:50 | <davean> | I'm lost as to the connection you're making |
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| 19:53:43 | <geekosaur> | you can do pure FFI, if you know the C function you are calling has no side effects and in particular doesn't allocate |
| 19:53:44 | <SrPx> | davean: to be more specific, this is for an evaluator. the runtime is in C, including the "whnf-reduce" function. that function does, internally, effectiful things such as allocating memory and writing to the global heap. as such, whnf-reduce must be wrapped in IO - it isn't a pure function |
| 19:53:59 | <geekosaur> | ah |
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| 19:54:19 | <davean> | geekosaur: right, but see what he said "I do need the ability to do IO inside "pure" functions (because I'm using C FFI for performance)" |
| 19:54:43 | <SrPx> | the problem is that, now, the 'normal' function (which calls whnf-reduce layer by layer) is extremely eager. if I normalize a term and drop it, it will still fully normalize the term because the whole thing has to be wrapped in IO |
| 19:54:44 | <geekosaur> | right, but at that point I think I say "just do it in IO, you will be sad otherwise" |
| 19:55:07 | <davean> | I mean you can pass laziness through IO |
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| 19:55:17 | <davean> | IO doesn't remove laziness |
| 19:55:30 | <SrPx> | so I can't interleave IO calls to happen only when Haskell's lazy evaluator reaches an expression? ): |
| 19:55:33 | <SrPx> | what will happen exactly? |
| 19:55:45 | <davean> | I mean that is what IO already does. |
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| 19:56:31 | <mauke> | unsafeInterleaveIO exists |
| 19:56:48 | <SrPx> | no. it is true that you can pass IO around lazily. yet, within the context of the execution of IO monad, calls will not be evaluated lazily - Haskell will run the whole IO, even if some parts aren't visible (see my example) |
| 19:57:05 | <SrPx> | mauke: I've just learned about it, seems like what I need. although documentation isn't clear on how it could break things |
| 19:57:27 | <mauke> | are you familiar with getContents? |
| 19:57:47 | <SrPx> | interestingly, seems like there is a SO thread about exactly that: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13263692/when-is-unsafeinterleaveio-unsafe |
| 19:57:50 | <SrPx> | mauke: no, what is that? |
| 19:59:29 | <mauke> | gives you stdin as a lazy string |
| 19:59:30 | <davean> | SrPx: It will run the whole IO, but IO can pass and produce lazy values just fine |
| 19:59:34 | <SrPx> | "In general, it is up to you to prove that your use of unsafeInterleaveIO is safe. If you call unsafeInterleaveIO x, then you have to prove that x can be called at any time and still produce the same output." |
| 19:59:59 | <SrPx> | ah, based on this I'm good to use it. reduce() will always return the same result, even though it mutates memory internally. ty guys |
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| 20:00:40 | <davean> | SrPx: Then it might be pure and not involve IO at all? |
| 20:00:41 | <SrPx> | and it works! |
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| 20:00:53 | <mauke> | is reduce a C function? |
| 20:01:08 | <SrPx> | davean: you mean in the sense I could wrap unsafePerformIO into the reduce() function I get from C? |
| 20:01:18 | <SrPx> | davean: that might be a better idea actually... |
| 20:01:29 | <mauke> | if so, you can just import it at a pure type |
| 20:01:56 | <SrPx> | mauke: makes sense |
| 20:02:06 | <mauke> | (of course, that won't work if it takes/returns pointers) |
| 20:02:25 | <SrPx> | so, as long as I guarantee reduce acts purely, it is ok to import it as a pure function, even thought it isn't |
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| 20:02:41 | <davean> | C FFI doesn't mean you have to have IO |
| 20:02:52 | <mauke> | runST exists |
| 20:03:05 | <mauke> | so I figure if it is morally "like ST", then it should be OK |
| 20:04:46 | <davean> | Yah this sounds more ST than IO |
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| 20:12:11 | <SrPx> | it works flawlessly guys. the interaction count decreases based on the terms I actually observe in Haskell. so basically Haskell-side laziness propagates to HVM in the sense if you discard an HVM term Haskell-side, you won't pay for it |
| 20:12:15 | <SrPx> | and that's extremely cool |
| 20:12:17 | <SrPx> | ty |
| 20:12:46 | <SrPx> | like mindblowingly cool |
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| 20:22:04 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> 😎 |
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| 20:28:53 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> cool |
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| 23:23:00 | <iteratee> | briandead: Yes, it looks like that was fixed for reading from a file, but it was left unchanged for reading from a bytestring. |
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