Logs on 2024-11-28 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:56:27 | <jackdk> | huh? I see the error snippet inlined from a pastebin |
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| 05:21:04 | <Leary> | Playing with RequiredTypeArguments, I find I mostly want them in class methods where they require an ugly hack. I just realised that hack can actually be made pretty: `type a --> b = forall a' -> a' ~ a => b; infixr 0 -->`. Unfortunately we don't have `infixr 0 ->` so it's not perfect; you have to parenthesise the body of the type if it's `_ -> _`. |
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| 09:18:55 | <hellwolf> | interesting, I used to use default signature extension for similar situation |
| 09:20:08 | <hellwolf> | You could even make a better type error messsage: |
| 09:20:08 | <hellwolf> | default abiDecoder :: forall. ( Assert (Not (IsABICoreType a)) |
| 09:20:08 | <hellwolf> | (TypeError (Text "abiDecoder must be defined for a core type")) |
| 09:20:08 | <hellwolf> | , ABITypeCodec (ABITypeDerivedOf a)) => S.Get a |
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| 13:29:47 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> Well, today's extension to include is ... qualified do |
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| 13:30:05 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> For gradedmonad |
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| 13:33:22 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> But I am in serious questioning of the real value of this do notation in my case. |
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| 14:01:06 | <mauke> | grade d monad |
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| 15:13:01 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Qualified do is more useful without typeclasses ngl |
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| 15:14:30 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Qualified applicative do is even more interesting without typeclasses |
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| 15:26:03 | <juri_> | well, glad to be writing haskell again. |
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| 15:49:06 | <juri_> | grr. aeson being opaque, as usual. no instance for FromJSON ByteString when decodeing, but if i supply a fromJSON instance for the type, i have overlapping instances. WTH. |
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| 16:13:24 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: that particular (+) is just in GHC.TypeNats in base, no need to depend on ghc-internal |
| 16:14:05 | <tomsmeding> | juri_: strict vs lazy ByteString? They're both called ByteString |
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| 16:22:43 | <juri_> | tomsmeding: the type i am trying to read uses strict. I've rewritten to use decodeFileStrict, and still can't get around it. |
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| 16:42:23 | <hellwolf> | I didn't depend on the type (+) directly in the use-site, it was used from my own package elsewhere. It was shown in the error message, which was confusing. But the root cause was more pertinent, and I had to fix that instead. I will watch out how often it shows up to end users, if it were not due to internal bugs, which then could be concerning. |
| 16:44:31 | <tomsmeding> | juri_: what instance does the instance you try to write overlap with? Is that instance imported at the place where you try to use it? |
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| 16:45:18 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: right, I was just responding to geekosaur's suggestion to import the module it comes from to simplify the error message |
| 16:45:49 | <hellwolf> | I am having serious crisis doubting if do syntax is really that beneficial. `>>= \x -> ...` looks equally fine. It does save you some key strokes of ">>=, >>" with "do", ofc. Thinking about it, the linear-type syntax I am building up heavily relying on (&, &+, &-, &|+, &|-, etc.) to start the line following, usually, a lambda. Akin to the the bind operator ">>=", but with more variant to deal wih those "&" series of |
| 16:45:49 | <hellwolf> | multiplicity combinators that I am designing. |
| 16:45:52 | <c_wraith> | fwiw, aeson doesn't have a FromJSON instance for ByteString. And it shouldn't. Such an instance implies a privileged encoding. That's fine for your application, but not for the core library |
| 16:46:11 | <tomsmeding> | juri_: ^ |
| 16:46:40 | <geekosaur> | tomsmeding, that was just a generic "why does that error qualify a type with package and module" |
| 16:47:32 | <geekosaur> | and yes, it's a bit of a scorched earth response, but it'll always work whereas I needed to see more to know if it could be simplified in that cas |
| 16:47:33 | <geekosaur> | e |
| 16:48:14 | <hellwolf> | with (+), if one of the Nat didn't get inferred properly (which is the root problem), then the whole message was garbled with what I pasted above. |
| 16:48:41 | <hellwolf> | so I am hoping that such inference error is eliminated at use site so that I won't scare away users. |
| 16:49:19 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: exporting (Data.TypeNats.+) will at least shorten that to just "+" in the error message |
| 16:49:26 | <tomsmeding> | which, granted, may still be unreadable |
| 16:50:25 | <hellwolf> | could be. and it could be a wishful thinking from me. if it the inference deficiency did happen, I will have to see if I can shortcircuit it earlier with a TypeError. But that's extra work. |
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| 17:36:56 | <juri_> | tomsmeding, c_wraith: https://paste.rs/qKcMz.txt |
| 17:38:03 | <c_wraith> | is Vocab a type alias? |
| 17:38:09 | <juri_> | it is. |
| 17:38:28 | <c_wraith> | ... I kind of hate type aliases. |
| 17:38:45 | <juri_> | me too, but not my library. |
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| 17:41:00 | <juri_> | trying to use https://github.com/BobMcDear/minbpe-hs/blob/main/src/BPE/Base.hs , and serialize in a Vocab from a json file. |
| 17:42:20 | <c_wraith> | Ok, so... You need to create a FromJSON instance for BS.ByteString, not for Vocab |
| 17:42:58 | <geekosaur> | that was the original question, no? |
| 17:43:39 | <c_wraith> | It was, but the error messages that indicate conflicting instances aren't from ByteString, they're from InsOrdHashMap, which Vocab is a type alias for |
| 17:48:25 | <c_wraith> | alternatively, you can convert the Vocab to have Text values for serialization, and then convert the values back to the right type after deserializing. |
| 17:48:48 | <c_wraith> | Assuming the contents are actually text, anyway |
| 17:52:51 | <juri_> | ok, that fits. thank you. :) |
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| 17:59:13 | <ash3en> | is every job -- haskell or not -- somehow either project management or writing REST? |
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| 18:10:43 | <ski> | it would be nice if GHC supported being able to abstractly export a type synonym |
| 18:11:46 | <ski> | (in Hugs, this is, more or less, restricted type synonyms. except that in that case, you specifically list which definitions it's concretely in scope over. kinda like `abstype' in SML) |
| 18:12:56 | <tomsmeding> | ski: how would that work? |
| 18:13:40 | <tomsmeding> | what's the difference with just exporting the type synonym as you can currently do? |
| 18:15:22 | <ski> | externally, the type would appear as a `data'/`newtype', with no constructors exported |
| 18:15:37 | <ski> | internally, it's known to be a `type' synonym |
| 18:15:38 | <tomsmeding> | what would be the advantage of that? |
| 18:15:49 | <tomsmeding> | it's not like you can really keep _secrets_ |
| 18:16:13 | <ski> | dunno what you mean by the latter |
| 18:16:43 | <ski> | but you could avoid some annoying `newtype' constuctor wrapping and unwrapping, in internal definitions |
| 18:16:59 | <tomsmeding> | the only difference I see is whether the haddocks contains the definition of the type synonym or not |
| 18:17:24 | <ski> | (and also avoid using `unsafeCoerce#' or `coerce') |
| 18:17:38 | <tomsmeding> | or would you also disallow `fst foo` if `foo :: Foo` where `type Foo = (Bar1, Bar2)` is an abstractly exported type synonym? |
| 18:17:56 | <tomsmeding> | (the `#` there feels somewhat overly strong) |
| 18:17:56 | <ski> | yes. otherwise it would not be abstractly exported |
| 18:18:21 | <tomsmeding> | right |
| 18:18:29 | <ski> | (the ML module systems do this, btw) |
| 18:21:29 | ← | L29Ah parts (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
| 18:21:53 | <ski> | (if you opaquely (rather than transparently) ascribe a signature that mentions the type, but not it being defined as a particular `datatype' or `type' (synonym), to the structure/module in question that defines the type. e.g. `structure Foo : sig type foo; val mkFoo : int -> foo option ; ... end = struct type foo = ...; fun mkFoo n = ...; ... end') |
| 18:22:41 | <ski> | (er, s/Foo :/Foo :>/. using `:' would be transparent ascription) |
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| 18:36:25 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> ski Miranda has this mechanism combined with module parameters (sorta like ML) instead of typeclasses |
| 18:37:20 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> It is meh because most of the time the definitions are small and you have to do some plumbing to get multiple overloadings going |
| 18:37:55 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> It isn't real overload either, you can't use a single symbol to refer to multiple operations, you have to rename each one manually instead |
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| 18:39:54 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> It's quite fast as well, because everything is specialized (Miranda is not fast in general though) |
| 18:40:52 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> In particular, a somewhat naive implementation of graph reduction segfaults on fairly small terms, but that's unrelated |
| 18:49:13 | <ski> | Bowuigi : are the module parameters modules ? values ? can they be types ? |
| 18:49:38 | <ski> | not sure what you mean by overloadings |
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| 18:59:07 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> No, the "module parameters" of Miranda are similar to setting "#define"s before including a file in C |
| 18:59:32 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> They can't be modules because modules exist at a sort of macro level. You can't compute with them either |
| 19:00:51 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Overloading as in referring to multiple definitions, respecting a singular schema but implemented for different types. The typeclass members on Haskell are overloaded |
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| 19:04:30 | <ski> | mhm |
| 19:05:38 | <ski> | (yea, but you said "It isn't real overload either", which made me wonder if it was just like making local names for operations coming from other modules or module parameters) |
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| 19:10:44 | <markasoftware> | i can't believe <$> has left-associativity |
| 19:10:44 | <markasoftware> | my mind is blown |
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| 19:14:13 | <markasoftware> | fn1 <$> fn2 <$> [1, 2, 3] = (fn1 <$> fn2) <$> [1, 2, 3] but functions are functors so (fn1 <$> fn2) = (fn1 . fn2) |
| 19:14:37 | <markasoftware> | i always thought it was fn1 <$> (fn2 <$> [1, 2, 3]) |
| 19:14:51 | <tomsmeding> | that is funny |
| 19:15:06 | <tomsmeding> | automatic fmap fusion by associativity! |
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| 19:31:58 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> what about (&) |
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| 19:36:11 | <enikar> | infixl 1 |
| 19:36:28 | <enikar> | amazing! |
| 19:38:01 | <tomsmeding> | Well that one makes sense. |
| 19:38:33 | <tomsmeding> | just like f $ g $ x = f $ (g $ x) = f (g x), you have x & g & f = (x & g) & f = f (g x) |
| 19:39:09 | <geekosaur> | yep. remember (&) is reversed |
| 19:40:16 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@128-137-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 19:41:40 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> with block arguments, it can look like this |
| 19:41:40 | <haskellbridge> | ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/kf8nh.com/DUWxphAzhbxtcmoiFFOcnqsr/NRs7mKkwlGA (4 lines) |
| 19:41:59 | <markasoftware> | interestingly, <&> is also left-associative, even though they could use the same trick to make it right-associative and the composition order would be correct. |
| 19:42:37 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> & + BlockArguments is your reincarnation of unix pipe in Haskell. |
| 19:42:43 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: if you get BlockArguments out then you can even `f do g do x` |
| 19:43:07 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> for that small toy case, yes, but I mean to point out something general. |
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| 19:46:01 | <tomsmeding> | :t (Control.Category.>>>) |
| 19:46:02 | <lambdabot> | forall k (cat :: k -> k -> *) (a :: k) (b :: k) (c :: k). Category cat => cat a b -> cat b c -> cat a c |
| 19:46:37 | <tomsmeding> | % :t (Control.Category.>>>) @(->) |
| 19:46:37 | <yahb2> | (Control.Category.>>>) @(->) ; :: GHC.Internal.Control.Category.Category (->) => ; (a -> b) -> (b -> c) -> a -> c |
| 19:47:07 | <tomsmeding> | :t flip (.) |
| 19:47:08 | <lambdabot> | (a -> b) -> (b -> c) -> a -> c |
| 19:48:23 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> i am having fun atm with lineartypes, and that's about the only tolerable syntax I can find due to all these one-multiplicity constraint: |
| 19:48:25 | <haskellbridge> | ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/kf8nh.com/aPVnzzMFyBOkwLGLuDYnpbus/EB4G3VwQL1Y (6 lines) |
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| 19:49:00 | <tomsmeding> | ah yes, with LinearTypes (&) ends up being quite useful if you don't want to nest `case` 10-deep |
| 19:50:48 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> % :t (Control.Category.<<<) @(->) |
| 19:51:17 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: try putting the command on the second line of your message |
| 19:51:20 | <hellwolf> | % :t (Control.Category.<<<) @(->) |
| 19:51:20 | <yahb2> | (Control.Category.<<<) @(->) ; :: GHC.Internal.Control.Category.Category (->) => ; (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c |
| 19:51:31 | <tomsmeding> | (<<<) @(->) = (.) |
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| 19:53:08 | <hellwolf> | % :t ($!) |
| 19:53:09 | <yahb2> | ($!) :: (a -> b) -> a -> b |
| 19:53:22 | <hellwolf> | % : info ($!) |
| 19:53:22 | <yahb2> | unrecognised flag: info ; unrecognised flag: ($!) |
| 19:53:28 | <tomsmeding> | % :i ($!) |
| 19:53:28 | <yahb2> | ($!) :: (a -> b) -> a -> b -- Defined in ‘GHC.Internal.Base’ ; infixr 0 $! |
| 19:53:44 | <tomsmeding> | has the same type as ($) but evaluates the argument to WHNF before passing it to the function |
| 19:54:13 | <hellwolf> | How can I explain WHNF to people like we are all javascript programmers. |
| 19:54:38 | <hellwolf> | ELJS |
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| 19:54:59 | <tomsmeding> | that might be tricky, because it's not even "strict application" really in a JS mindset, because it's only the top-level constructor |
| 19:55:45 | <hellwolf> | Also, today I also had a look of the base's document of Monad, the excerpt: |
| 19:55:59 | <hellwolf> | "The Monad class defines the basic operations over a monad, a concept from a branch of mathematics known as category theory. From the perspective of a Haskell programmer, however, it is best to think of a monad as an abstract datatype of actions. Haskell's do expressions provide a convenient syntax for writing monadic expressions." |
| 19:55:59 | <tomsmeding> | do you need ($!) specifically or could you make do with ($!!!!) :: NFData a => (a -> b) -> a -> b ; f $!!!! x = x `deepseq` f x |
| 19:56:07 | <hellwolf> | how is this supposed to be understandable to beginners. |
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| 19:56:28 | <tomsmeding> | reference documentation is not a tutorial |
| 19:56:46 | <hellwolf> | yea, fair enough. but please don't search "what is monad?" |
| 19:56:52 | <tomsmeding> | lol |
| 19:56:55 | <tomsmeding> | "it's a burrito" |
| 19:57:14 | <Rembane> | Mmmburrito |
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| 19:57:50 | <tomsmeding> | Rembane: it's past dinnertime, you should have eaten already |
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| 19:58:19 | <hellwolf> | Happy thanks giving. Haskell is a wonderful gift to us. I am gonna keep grinding now. |
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| 20:13:11 | <cheater> | haskgiving |
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| 20:34:40 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> ski sort of, you have a "%free" directive to declare free variables in the current module (with their types) and you "fill" them when "%include"-ing it |
| 20:35:25 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Including also allows you to include parts of modules and/or rename stuff |
| 20:37:23 | <ski> | Bowuigi : ok. can two modules be combined, filling free variables of one with some ones defined in the other, and simultaneously also the other way around ? |
| 20:38:56 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Not sure, lemme check |
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| 20:41:33 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> You can't, inclusions must form a DAG |
| 20:42:03 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> As in, you can't have cycles / mutually recursive modules |
| 20:42:27 | <Athas> | tomsmeding: did you have Haskell implementations of ADBench? |
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| 20:44:29 | <ski> | mhm, ok, Bowuigi. ty |
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| 20:45:52 | <ski> | (reminds me of "Some Were Meant for C - The Endurance of an Unmanageable Language" by Stephen Kell in 2017-10-(25-27) at <https://www.humprog.org/~stephen/research/papers/kell17some-preprint.pdf>) |
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| 20:50:02 | <Rembane> | tomsmeding: I know! My eating is lazily evaluated. :D |
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| 20:51:27 | <tomsmeding> | Athas: I had an implementation of GMM and BA in a fork of Accelerate with AD (of questionable quality) |
| 20:51:40 | <tomsmeding> | well, have |
| 20:51:50 | <tomsmeding> | "it probably still compiles" |
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| 23:00:31 | <jackdk> | And if it compiles, it probably works, so transitively... |
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| 23:23:54 | ← | L29Ah parts (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
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All times are in UTC on 2024-11-28.