Logs on 2024-12-23 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 01:23:06 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> hm |
| 01:23:15 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> seems the above model is incorrect but I'm not sure |
| 01:23:34 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> does anyone know if FRP GUIs delegate rendering to individual components instead of having a centralized rendering function? |
| 01:25:36 | <geekosaur> | depends on the specific FRP implementation, I'm pretty sure. each of them has its own model and most of them vary widely if not wildly from each other |
| 01:25:48 | <geekosaur> | "FRP" is not even close to being a monolith |
| 01:26:08 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> hm I should check out project implemented in the different libraries, ty good idea |
| 01:26:16 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> * projects |
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| 02:05:04 | <EvanR> | I have this cool non-answer to your question about FRP components from way back in the day https://apfelmus.nfshost.com/blog/2012/03/29-frp-three-principles-bidirectional-gui.html#the-three-principles |
| 02:05:14 | <EvanR> | thirdofmay18081814goya ^ |
| 02:05:28 | <EvanR> | less about low level rendering and more high level responsibilities |
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| 02:09:28 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> neato! thanks for the article |
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| 09:02:42 | <Guest33> | Hi, is there a way to produce a native cont monad with just function arrows? |
| 09:02:57 | <Guest33> | Assume you can type it properly: |
| 09:03:39 | <Guest33> | type Cont r a = (a -> r) -> r |
| 09:04:01 | <Guest33> | instance Functor (Cont r) |
| 09:10:51 | <Guest33> | Or for that matter, type State s a... |
| 09:12:27 | <Guest33> | And honestly it'd result in overlapping instances, so... |
| 09:12:40 | <int-e> | you can't even match that instance head |
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| 09:13:25 | <Guest33> | I know, that's what I'm asking about |
| 09:13:37 | <int-e> | This would amount to a type-level lambda which we don't have. |
| 09:15:25 | <Guest33> | So there's no way to create an instance for (a -> r) -> r and s -> (s,a), right? |
| 09:16:29 | <int-e> | right. Well, I suppose you can try instance r ~ s => Foo ((a -> r) -> s) |
| 09:16:53 | <Guest33> | Without newtypes of course, but that's just ContT identity and StateT identity |
| 09:16:54 | <int-e> | But that's not what you'd want for Functor. |
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| 09:17:50 | <int-e> | Anyway, use a newtype and that solves this problem. You can think of naming that newtype in your code as hinting to the compiler to introduce the right type-level lambda if you like. |
| 09:18:30 | <Guest33> | I mean if you go to newtype, just get Control.Monad.Trans and call it a day |
| 09:18:38 | <int-e> | Sure. |
| 09:18:55 | <Guest33> | The curiosity is more about naked reader having an instance in base |
| 09:19:37 | <Guest33> | Naked cont and naked state apparently can't have an instance, and it's probably a good thing due to overlapping instances |
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| 14:02:10 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> I need suggestions, i want to eventually make a small prototype of a terraform like tool. Not sure what actual adjective id use, but the gist is that the tool would get the current state, in this case filesystem layout, get the desired state from a config file, compare the two, produce a plan, execute said plan |
| 14:02:56 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> The compare sounds like a good use case for gdiff. Then if i can make sense of the patch data type, i could form a plan by that |
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| 14:06:35 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> So for those familiar with tmpfilesd, something like that, a bit less stupid and 100% less C |
| 14:07:06 | <JuanDaugherty> | and ur gonna use haskell, right? |
| 14:07:12 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Ofc |
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| 14:07:26 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Isnt this the haskell irc room (: |
| 14:07:46 | <JuanDaugherty> | absolutely, just checking |
| 14:08:55 | <JuanDaugherty> | i dunno from terraform so cant say; often in such cases a related name is used |
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| 14:10:31 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Id call it a "given a current state of a system and a desired out, hammer it into shape" |
| 14:10:33 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> System |
| 14:11:03 | <JuanDaugherty> | maxwell them maybe (silverhammer) |
| 14:11:08 | <JuanDaugherty> | *then |
| 14:11:20 | <JuanDaugherty> | as a monicker not an adjective |
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| 14:12:04 | <JuanDaugherty> | or just silverhammer, but u might wanna rethink hammering on ppls fs |
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| 14:13:06 | <JuanDaugherty> | a plethora of tolls exist for most fs tasks |
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| 14:13:45 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Oh yeah but this is like a general problem |
| 14:14:02 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> A lot of my project fall into the same category but slightly different context |
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| 14:15:22 | <JuanDaugherty> | a nice UI for rsnapshot would be great |
| 14:17:11 | <JuanDaugherty> | u could do plans for backup generations |
| 14:17:41 | <JuanDaugherty> | less hazard more benefit |
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| 14:18:59 | <JuanDaugherty> | u could easily do better than apple timemachine |
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| 14:21:31 | <JuanDaugherty> | an issue with the bridge: part/leave doesn show |
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| 14:43:14 | <JuanDaugherty> | and even better plans for a given restore where u would produce the command for a specified action (cp or rsync), doable, straightforward, safe and useful |
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| 14:54:18 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> I want to have be able to manage a whole linux rootfs |
| 14:54:30 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> For nixos and rsync is not expressive enough probably |
| 14:54:35 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Or itll be a pain |
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| 17:43:59 | <hellwolf> | mapM (compile_fn_dispatcher ind') fns <&> catMaybes |
| 17:43:59 | <hellwolf> | ^-- is there way to rewrite this using mapMaybe |
| 17:46:45 | <c_wraith> | not in base. |
| 17:47:06 | <c_wraith> | you're looking for the wither function from the witherable package |
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| 17:50:47 | <hellwolf> | huh, I can't tell what does that package do just from its name. |
| 17:51:30 | <hololeap> | it generalizes mapMaybe to other applicatives besides lists |
| 17:52:14 | <hellwolf> | i see |
| 17:52:40 | <hellwolf> | btw, I just finished the latest haskell interlude podcast: https://haskell.foundation/podcast/60/ . good talk, recommended to listen in. |
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| 17:53:34 | <hololeap> | well, mapMaybe is generalized to Functors, 'wither' is like a stronger traverse that can remove elements |
| 17:54:04 | <hololeap> | it's a super useful package, definitely one to keep in your toolbox |
| 17:55:20 | <hseg> | is it illegal to interleave definitions and imports? |
| 17:56:12 | <c_wraith> | yeah. imports have to be at the top. (more or less. after the module declaration) |
| 17:57:11 | <hseg> | hm. am encountering this since I'm using CPP to conditionally define a shim |
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| 17:57:34 | <hseg> | (optparse-applicative renamed text :: String -> Doc to pretty :: String -> Doc a) |
| 17:57:43 | <hellwolf> | 12-23 19:54 <hololeap> it's a super useful package, definitely one to keep in your toolbox |
| 17:57:43 | <hellwolf> | Noted. I am sold. I will give it a look. |
| 17:57:58 | <hseg> | (so to support old and new versions, I need to define a shim) |
| 17:58:11 | <hololeap> | you might have to split it up into several identical #if blocks |
| 17:58:15 | <hellwolf> | Btw, talking about interleaving imports and definitions; I would even go further, say, defining multiple modules in a single file could be rad for writing single file cabal scripts, e.g. |
| 17:58:27 | <hololeap> | like, one for the import and one for the actual code |
| 17:58:58 | <hseg> | fair. a bit of a shame, though, though tbf otoh that forces the code to be somewhat more readable |
| 17:59:23 | <hseg> | ... actually no, idk that that's that much more readable |
| 17:59:38 | <hololeap> | CPP is never very pretty. it's usually just a compatibility shim |
| 17:59:50 | <hololeap> | a necessary evil sometimes |
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| 18:01:11 | <hololeap> | I guess you could shove the CPP stuff into its own module so it isn't stinking up the rest of your code :p |
| 18:01:18 | <hseg> | right. I'm more referring to the fact that I'm stuck either duplicating the test or moving the import, neither of which is good for readability |
| 18:01:30 | <hseg> | hm, that _is_ a fair point |
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| 18:02:29 | <hseg> | tbh, this feels like one of those things that a more backpack-y ecosystem might do better |
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| 18:03:44 | <hseg> | so you just pollute your version constraints with "for this version, I need this compatibility shim" rather than the code itself |
| 18:04:31 | <hololeap> | it's either that or make the constraints on your dependencies really tight |
| 18:05:02 | <hseg> | yeah |
| 18:05:46 | <hololeap> | like, I don't think "text >=2" is a terrible thing, esp for personal/private projects |
| 18:06:16 | <hololeap> | it seems like a lot of libraries try to keep text-1.* support which I'm sure brings in a lot of CPP |
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| 18:10:53 | <hseg> | welp, code structure is forcing my hand anyway -- a bunch of transitive imports means my shims end up being imported together, causing ambiguity |
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| 18:36:35 | <ski> | nesting modules would sometimes be neat |
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| 18:41:48 | <monochrom> | Yeah I would like multiple modules in the same file too. Probably also solves the mutual import problem. |
| 18:43:32 | <monochrom> | OK maybe not the mutual import problem. (SML does "not" suffer this problem because the user has to painstakingly hand-write type sigs. Haskell people expect full automatic inference, that's the real problem.) |
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| 18:51:11 | <monochrom> | You know what, I'm radical and heretic, screw files, we should do things the Smalltalk way. Can Programming Be Liberated from The Plain Text File? |
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| 18:52:57 | <hseg> | isn't that what unison is pushing? |
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| 18:54:43 | <monochrom> | I don't know unison. |
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| 18:58:33 | <hseg> | https://www.unison-lang.org/docs/the-big-idea/ |
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| 18:58:37 | <hseg> | monochrom: https://www.unison-lang.org/docs/the-big-idea/ |
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| 19:02:23 | <hellwolf> | I am not familiar with this really. Am I doing stupid thing if I over use reads and readS_to_P to build a small utility function to decode a relatively small-sized string? Any better way of doing it? |
| 19:05:03 | <hellwolf> | nevermind, let me look up some example for cues. |
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| 20:11:17 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> what's a way to think about asynchronicity? never gave this serious thought so this might be a vague question |
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| 20:15:44 | <EvanR> | it means a thread may be interrupted at any time |
| 20:16:19 | <EvanR> | calling a lot of programming assumptions into question |
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| 20:26:57 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> hm right |
| 20:28:15 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> maybe it is less painful if we instead think of it as the death of a thread and the creation of a thread in the future as depending on an IO input? |
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| 20:44:19 | <EvanR> | interruption may not include continuing in any way |
| 20:44:29 | <EvanR> | as in async exceptions |
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| 20:53:24 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> hm |
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| 21:04:40 | <hellwolf> | befuddled, this code didn't work: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/vFaGcyN8 I got bogus n bound to the (INTx' s n) |
| 21:05:47 | <[exa]> | hellwolf: btw what was the issue with readS_to_P ? |
| 21:06:16 | <hellwolf> | no issues, I solved that, didn't take much time to learn it. |
| 21:07:20 | <hellwolf> | let me build a small example for that SNat issue. |
| 21:07:23 | <[exa]> | ok nice I was just curious, mostly for why would anyone start by having ReadS when ReadP builds up so well. |
| 21:07:45 | <hellwolf> | No, I actually learned to build bunch of ReadP |
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| 21:07:54 | <[exa]> | goood gooooooood |
| 21:08:16 | <hellwolf> | I figured I was just asking nonsensical question |
| 21:08:45 | <hellwolf> | It was silly me even to think about looking for something scanf, ReadP is much more powerful, and easy to write, too. |
| 21:09:35 | <[exa]> | yeah, these things allow people to use regex for parsing stuff |
| 21:09:55 | <[exa]> | AH NO |
| 21:10:08 | <[exa]> | to *unlearn* using regex for parsing stuff!! |
| 21:10:20 | <[exa]> | shouldn't press enter so quickly :D |
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| 21:17:45 | <hellwolf> | I do that all the time: typing the opposite of what I wanted to say |
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| 21:21:49 | <hellwolf> | OKay, I reproduced it |
| 21:21:50 | <hellwolf> | https://play.haskell.org/saved/6y6AwEUM |
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| 21:28:28 | <hellwolf> | excuse moi, I think I also need to use withKnownNat |
| 21:28:37 | <hellwolf> | my bad, unsafeAxiom too far |
| 21:28:53 | <hellwolf> | very tedious to write, but let me fix and then optimize |
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| 21:36:29 | <ski> | hellwolf : your `\case Nothing -> Nothing; Just (...) -> ...' is `(=<<) \(...) -> ...' (or `(>>= \(...) -> ...)', if you prefer) |
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| 21:44:47 | <hellwolf> | yes. |
| 21:45:00 | <hellwolf> | but I still can't get it work, with withKnownNat. I am confused |
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| 22:11:13 | <hellwolf> | okay, I guess I am over stepping into what I can do with unsafeAxiom. Without knowing how GHC internally works exactly, I can take a wild guess why I shouldn't code like this. |
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| 22:14:24 | <hellwolf> | :D |
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| 22:23:03 | <hellwolf> | okay, this works https://play.haskell.org/saved/leUbXR0P but it looks like I really just need to enumerate all 32 cases, could be with TH, to bind the correct typeclass instance. |
| 22:23:52 | <hellwolf> | no "smarter" way using constraints and unsafe coerce Dict, etc. |
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| 22:24:11 | <hellwolf> | those are good for type level stuff, but not when you need to deal with term level stuff. |
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| 22:33:39 | <ski> | hellwolf : you could `case' on `n', rather than doing an `if' chain with `=='s |
| 22:35:07 | <ski> | hellwolf : also, `Show' instance looks incorrect (at least unless you make pattern synonyms for `UINT8',`UINT16',`UINT24',`UINT32') |
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| 22:46:19 | <hellwolf> | right, I could use case, write 32 of them... I was looking into how to write if else chain in TH, but probably the cases are easier to write |
| 22:46:36 | <hellwolf> | at this point, I am just practicing TH. |
| 22:47:44 | <hellwolf> | λ [e| \n -> case n of 1 -> Just (f @1); 2 -> Just (f @2); _ -> Nothing; |] |
| 22:47:44 | <hellwolf> | LamE [VarP n_0] (CaseE (VarE n_0) [Match (LitP (IntegerL 1)) (NormalB (AppE (ConE GHC.Internal.Maybe.Just) (AppTypeE (VarE Ghci4.f) (LitT (NumTyLit 1))))) [],Match (LitP (IntegerL 2)) (NormalB (AppE (ConE GHC.Internal.Maybe.Just) (AppTypeE (VarE Ghci4.f) (LitT (NumTyLit 2))))) [],Match WildP (NormalB (ConE GHC.Internal.Maybe.Nothing)) []]) |
| 22:48:26 | <hellwolf> | An array of TH.match is definite easier to write :p |
| 22:48:49 | <hellwolf> | (or easier to think about, code wise is probably similar) |
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| 23:11:40 | <hellwolf> | ski, show instance is actually "correct", I am sticking a weird domain where U256 means 256 bits. |
| 23:11:40 | <hellwolf> | and thanks for your hint using case of, the TH code is actually quite easy, I have it done: https://play.haskell.org/saved/Hdf3hnIp |
| 23:12:41 | <hellwolf> | still feel herculean, but now that I wrote couple of big TH code, it feels rather mechanical |
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