Logs on 2024-12-30 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:01:40 | <orangeflu> | Rembane: you mean, if i remove runST here, i need to apply runST to a function further up the chain? |
| 00:01:49 | <orangeflu> | Cause if yes, that's what i am doing now |
| 00:02:44 | <orangeflu> | If not, sorry, i don't know enough about monads, ST in particular, to know what is the "something" you are talking about |
| 00:02:47 | <Rembane> | orangeflu: Yes, also there's some freezing and thawing that needs to be moved around and the types need to be adjusted. :) |
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| 00:07:50 | <orangeflu> | Ok, just to fill you in in case you weren't there last time we discussed this: this is about an emulator, and obviously instructions need to modify the memory/registers. What I do now, is, whenever an instruction needs to modify something, i runSt, thaw, modify, freeze. What I want to do instead: when execution of the program starts (i mean, the processor loop, where i fetch an instruction, decode and |
| 00:07:57 | <orangeflu> | execute it), i do runST and thaw the vectors there, run the program, and when it is done, freeze the vector. This will happen inside the emulator totally, so all parts of the program that call the emulator will have no idea this is happening, they will send and receive back an immutable copy of the mem/regs they sent |
| 00:08:22 | <monochrom> | Every thaw takes linear time. Every freeze takes linear time. |
| 00:08:51 | <orangeflu> | That does mean my instructions will not be pure anymore, but hey, if that means I don't have to allocate 32GB whenever i try to emulate a program, i am fine with it |
| 00:08:54 | <Rembane> | orangeflu: I like the second version where everything happens inside of ST or IO more. :) |
| 00:09:03 | <Rembane> | orangeflu: I think you're on the right track. |
| 00:09:08 | <monochrom> | But if your array is very small you can turn a blind eye because O(20) counts as O(1). |
| 00:10:04 | <orangeflu> | monochrom: i most certainly cannot, one is 32 Word8s, the other can be anywhere between 32-5000 Word8s, maybe even more |
| 00:10:18 | <Rembane> | A significant n! |
| 00:10:20 | <monochrom> | But then you might as well stick to immutable arrays because thaw-then-freeze is twice as slow as just building a new array. |
| 00:11:11 | <monochrom> | Then again O(2*20) counts as O(20) too so you can turn a blind eye and defend an XY problem. |
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| 00:13:21 | <orangeflu> | monochrom: did you read the last monologue i made? i will only do a thaw when i start executing, then execute, say, 50000 cycles, EACH of which will mutate the vectors in some ways, then freeze it when presenting the final state of the emulator to the user. If you do the math, if you execute 50000 instructions, each of which make copies of the, let's say, on average 2032 elements in those vectors, you |
| 00:13:27 | <orangeflu> | might have a problem |
| 00:13:29 | <orangeflu> | and indeed, i do |
| 00:13:56 | <orangeflu> | So yes, i will thaw, execute a bunch of instructions, freeze and not rely on the "copying is fine" because it isn't |
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| 00:14:32 | <monochrom> | I saw "whenever an instruction needs to modify something, i runSt, thaw, modify, freeze" |
| 00:15:01 | <monochrom> | Did I read everything? Surely no. |
| 00:15:22 | <orangeflu> | yes, this is the way i currently do it, before realizing thaw and freeze take linear time |
| 00:15:34 | <orangeflu> | i thought they are constant time |
| 00:15:47 | <monochrom> | Suppose I'm marking an exam. A student wrote both "yes" and "no". Do I have to read both? No, I just have to see the wrong answer and assign 0 marks. |
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| 00:15:59 | <orangeflu> | reading back what i wrote, i may have sounded a bit aggresive, my bad, didn't mean to |
| 00:16:17 | <orangeflu> | just wanted to draw your attention to the fact that that is not the way it will be after i'm done\ |
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| 01:13:05 | <kaol> | Another am I missing something question: Is there some more straightforward way to truncate a UTCTime to seconds' precision than doing this? t { utctDayTime = fromInteger $ floor $ realToFrac $ utctDayTime t } |
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| 01:19:32 | <statusbot> | Maintenance update: hackage redeploy starting -- http://status.haskell.org/pages/maintenance/537c07b0cf1fad5830000093/6771f513da771958082acb03 |
| 01:27:11 | <statusbot> | Maintenance update: hackage redeploy complete. -- http://status.haskell.org/pages/maintenance/537c07b0cf1fad5830000093/6771f513da771958082acb03 |
| 01:27:17 | <jle`> | thanks statusbot |
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| 01:55:21 | <fp> | Hey I'm having a hard time understanding how to deal with an error message. I have the parser =floatExactPrefix = string "#e" :: Parsec Void Char Char=, but I'm getting the error "Couldn't match type 'Tokens Char' with 'Char'". I'm not really sure why this is happening or what I can do about it |
| 01:56:26 | <fp> | Also possibly relevant, I have OverloadedStrings enabled and Data.Text imported |
| 02:01:57 | <jle`> | your Parsec type should have the type of your input stream, like String or Text |
| 02:02:34 | <jle`> | and the last type is the the type of the value you want to return, which is probably going to be either String or Text |
| 02:02:38 | <jle`> | not Char |
| 02:03:14 | <jle`> | so your type should probably be `Parsec Void String String` or `Parsec Void Text Text`, depending on what your underlying stream you are parsing is |
| 02:04:29 | <fp> | Mmm ok, I mistook stream type to mean token type |
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| 03:01:11 | <orangeflu> | if i do take an MVector inside a function and modify it there, is there a need to return it? Or will the reference I have to it in the caller function alreayd reflect that changed made? |
| 03:02:18 | <monochrom> | The latter. |
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| 03:02:43 | <orangeflu> | thank youu |
| 03:04:03 | <orangeflu> | how long have you been programming in haskell?\ |
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| 03:11:47 | <orangeflu> | monochrom: |
| 03:12:00 | <orangeflu> | how long have you been coding in haskell? |
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| 09:05:25 | Rembane | thinks it's about seven thousand years |
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| 09:28:46 | hellwolf | thinks that is a long time. |
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| 11:02:38 | <mreh> | can I do better than loading a ByteString from a file then `copyBytes` to a Ptr with the ForeignPtr in the ByteString? I need to upload a load of images to VRAM quickly. |
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| 12:51:17 | <Rembane> | mreh: There's a mmap-package IIRC, but I don't know if it's actually faster than your method. |
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| 13:10:33 | <carbolymer> | is there a way to execute code snippets in haddocks, in CI for example? |
| 13:11:54 | <carbolymer> | oh there's a doctest https://hackage.haskell.org/package/doctest |
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| 13:35:10 | <hellwolf> | the closest I can think of is https://hackage.haskell.org/package/DocTest |
| 13:35:18 | <hellwolf> | * https://hackage.haskell.org/package/doctest |
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| 14:45:13 | <haskellbridge> | <maerwald> hoogle down? |
| 14:46:03 | <hellwolf> | foldl' (\a _ -> g a) b [0 .. bytesnNBytes @n] |
| 14:46:31 | <hellwolf> | whenever I do this, where the list value is not really used, I don't think I am doing the optimal thing |
| 14:46:53 | <hellwolf> | (like a for loop, where the indices are not used) |
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| 14:48:53 | <enikar> | hum… it seems you are looping over indices, a is an indice, or am i wrong? |
| 14:49:18 | <enikar> | yes i'm wrong |
| 14:49:38 | <Rembane> | hellwolf: Could replicate help you there? |
| 14:50:10 | <enikar> | the accumulator is at left, so indices are at right. Shame on me :D |
| 14:50:55 | <Leary> | :t \n f x -> stimes n (Endo f) `appEndo` x |
| 14:51:06 | <lambdabot> | Integral b => b -> (a -> a) -> a -> a |
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| 14:51:50 | <hellwolf> | No, I need to accumulate value, and there is no Monoid instance here |
| 14:51:59 | <enikar> | there is also until, but it is more like imperative style of coding |
| 14:52:04 | <enikar> | :t until |
| 14:52:05 | <lambdabot> | (a -> Bool) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a |
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| 14:52:41 | <enikar> | I often use until with a pair for the a |
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| 15:25:54 | <hellwolf> | Monoid b => Monoid (a -> b) |
| 15:26:02 | <hellwolf> | this can be an useful instance |
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| 15:28:53 | <hellwolf> | nah |
| 15:31:31 | <hellwolf> | this does though: Monoid a => Applicative ((,) a) |
| 15:31:52 | <hellwolf> | I read just recenlty (,) has an applicative that can do great things, now I think I can put it into practice |
| 15:32:00 | <hellwolf> | not sure if it's more readable code |
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| 15:32:04 | <hellwolf> | let me try and put it side by side to you |
| 15:32:24 | <Leary> | It's just raw `Writer`. |
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| 15:35:56 | <hellwolf> | how do you mean? quick fiddling turns out that Applicative ((,) a) not enough neither, since I need to bind the output. Anyways, raw lambda ftw for now. |
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| 15:46:18 | <Leary> | > swap . runWriter $ do { tell "hello"; tell "world" } |
| 15:46:21 | <lambdabot> | ("helloworld",()) |
| 15:46:26 | <Leary> | > do { ("hello", ()); ("world", ()) } |
| 15:46:51 | <lambdabot> | ("helloworld",()) |
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| 15:59:46 | <prsteele> | I've implemented a class that has an `Ord a` constraint. This is all well and good, but now I find myself wanting to use this class when I only have a `a -> a -> Ordering` at hand. Is there a common trick to lifting a value-level comparison to an `Ord` instance? The reverse is trivial --- it's `compare` --- but I can't see anything better than a |
| 15:59:46 | <prsteele> | `newtype Comparing a = Comparing (a -> a -> Ordering, a)` instance. This seems _okay_, except that it would merely be convention that all values of that type have equivalent functions embedded. (You'd get no protection from passing `compare` versus `flip compare`, for example.) |
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| 16:03:03 | <Leary> | prsteele: The triviality of the reverse is why you should do it the other way around in the first place. Use the same convention as in base: call your class methods `oldNameBy` and have them take explicit `a -> a -> Ordering` arguments. At the top level, define `oldName = oldNameBy compare`. |
| 16:03:28 | <prsteele> | Yup, that makes sense, thanks! And also thanks for your notes on ST annotations |
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| 17:34:23 | <hellwolf> | Is there any performance difference between putting a type variable in a multi-parameter type classes, vs put into one of its functions? |
| 17:34:35 | <hellwolf> | * performance implication |
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| 17:35:08 | <hellwolf> | ergonomic reason being, if putting into function signatures, you need to restate function signature to use those variables in the instances. |
| 17:35:14 | <hellwolf> | if you need those. |
| 17:35:20 | <monochrom> | That's a strange question. They don't even have the same semantics. |
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| 17:41:32 | <hellwolf> | hmm, I need to articulate it different then, I don't have a tiny example to show that |
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| 17:44:44 | <hellwolf> | in risk of too much details, let me try it anyways: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/KVeTD5Zk |
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| 17:56:11 | <Leary> | hellwolf: Just capture `v1` from the type of `x` and use `v1 + vd` for `vn`? |
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| 18:02:43 | <hellwolf> | sorry to confuse you. a bit of cleanup I need to do first, it wasn't ready to share as such. |
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| 18:12:16 | hellwolf | feel exhausted seeing types all day |
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| 18:13:14 | Rembane | hands hellwolf some Clojure |
| 18:13:36 | hellwolf | drinks until the bottom |
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| 18:15:22 | <Rembane> | ^^ |
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| 18:16:48 | <hellwolf> | https://discourse.haskell.org/t/i-wrote-a-novel/11094 at least there is always some entertainment out there on the internet |
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| 20:06:35 | <carbolymer> | how do I write a function `Proxy a -> Proxy b -> Maybe (a :~: b)` ? Basically, an instance `TestEquality Proxy` |
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| 20:10:47 | <int-e> | With Data.Typeable you can write f :: (Typeable a, Typeable b) => p a -> p b -> Maybe (a :~: b); f _ _ = eqT |
| 20:12:53 | <int-e> | huh isn't that exactly what testEquality is? |
| 20:13:03 | <int-e> | (taking f = Proxy) |
| 20:13:11 | <int-e> | testEquality :: forall (a :: k) (b :: k). f a -> f b -> Maybe (a :~: b) |
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| 20:15:57 | <carbolymer> | omg, I've read Data.Equality three times and I didn't notice eqT |
| 20:16:05 | <carbolymer> | thanks! |
| 20:16:16 | <carbolymer> | Data.Typeable I mean |
| 20:16:18 | <carbolymer> | shit I |
| 20:16:21 | <carbolymer> | I'm tired |
| 20:17:50 | <carbolymer> | int-e: but there's no `TestEquality Proxy` |
| 20:17:55 | <int-e> | ah |
| 20:17:58 | <carbolymer> | for some reason |
| 20:18:30 | <int-e> | Yeah I didn't read enough context. `f` is the argument of the TestEquality class. |
| 20:19:17 | <int-e> | I guess `TestEquality` is meant for things that are compile time decidable |
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| 20:23:58 | <int-e> | Eh, I don't know. I'm probably wrong. It is interesting that this doesn't tie into Data.Typeable out of the box. |
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| 20:46:50 | × | euleritian quits (~euleritia@dynamic-176-001-202-129.176.1.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
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| 21:00:05 | <hellwolf> | use typeclass |
| 21:00:35 | <hellwolf> | statically decide the outout for you |
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| 21:02:46 | <hellwolf> | closed type family can work too, you get a Bool kind and then you can write type classes of it |
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| 21:04:42 | tmr | is now known as tamer |
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All times are in UTC on 2024-12-30.