Logs on 2025-01-21 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 03:50:39 | <jle`> | is there a nice way to get "EndoM" from just base tools |
| 03:50:52 | <jle`> | i guess i could use Endo and pre-=<< everything but |
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| 04:03:14 | <Leary> | jle`: `Endo` was a mistake. Fix it: `newtype Endo c a = Endo{ unEndo :: c a a }; instance Category c => Monoid (Endo c); type EndoM m = Endo (Kleisli m)` |
| 04:05:58 | <jle`> | ah yea hand then normal Endo is just Endo (->) |
| 04:06:02 | <jle`> | s/hand/and |
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| 04:27:27 | <monochrom> | Haha you are right, that's marvelous. |
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| 04:51:29 | <jle`> | but you'd still need the Kleisli newtyoe wrapper for EndoM |
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| 04:59:37 | ← | felixphew parts (~felixphew@cssa/life/felix) (so long for now :)) |
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| 18:52:11 | <sim590> | I'm writing a library that exposes this type `newtype MyMonad m a = MyMonad { unwrapMyMonad :: StateT MyMonadState m a }` in which all my functions exposed functions are running. This enables me to handle the state for the user. However, therefore, the user also has access to the state and I don't want that because this could cause memory leak (I'm writing an FFI library wrapping a C library). |
| 18:52:13 | <sim590> | What can I do to avoid that? |
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| 18:53:37 | <geekosaur> | does `unwrapMyMonad` need to be exposed? |
| 18:53:58 | <sim590> | It's not exposed. |
| 18:54:05 | <geekosaur> | if so, consider why it would need to be and then see if you can write a "smart constructor" in its place |
| 18:54:16 | <geekosaur> | then don't export it |
| 18:54:49 | <geekosaur> | export `MyMonad` instead of `MyMonad(..)` |
| 18:55:16 | <sim590> | I'm sorry, there's this function that is exported though: runMyMonad :: MyMonad IO () -> IO () |
| 18:55:41 | <geekosaur> | that's fine, it only uses the type level |
| 18:56:33 | <sim590> | But then, can't someone use the StateT's `get` and `put` inside their `MyMonad IO ()` action ? |
| 18:56:43 | <probie> | At no point (without `unsafeCoerce`) can they access the inner `StateT MyMonadState m a` unless you export the constructor for `MyMonad` or `unwrapMyMonad` |
| 18:56:59 | <probie> | Only if you made it an instance of `MonadState` |
| 18:57:08 | <geekosaur> | basically, if you export or import just MyMonad then you only get the type, not the value level stuff they need to apply things like `get` or `put` |
| 18:57:21 | <sim590> | Yeah, I have this: deriving (Functor, Applicative, Monad, MonadIO, MonadState DhtRunnerState) |
| 18:57:24 | <geekosaur> | this is actually a common beginner error, forgetting to export or import the data constructors/fields |
| 18:57:35 | <geekosaur> | oh, hm |
| 18:57:39 | <sim590> | Oops, I meant MyMonadState. |
| 18:57:46 | <geekosaur> | that gets you in trouble, yes |
| 18:58:17 | <geekosaur> | consider not deriving that and unwrapping (this costs nothing at runtime since it's a newtype) to use it |
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| 18:59:33 | <sim590> | The issue is that before wrapping the user's action, I call some FFI C function for allocating some memory and when I unwrap the action, I free the pointers. |
| 19:00:17 | <geekosaur> | not if you're unwrapping the newtype |
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| 19:01:06 | <sim590> | Can I send you a link to my code so that you can give me a pastebin maybe of some modification I could do to make it work? The code is only one file with 300 lines. |
| 19:01:20 | <geekosaur> | I'm about to leave for a doctor appointment, so no |
| 19:01:29 | <sim590> | Oh OK. |
| 19:01:34 | <geekosaur> | maybe probie can help you from here |
| 19:01:52 | <sim590> | I'm a bit lost about the high level explanations like "if you're unwrapping the newtype" |
| 19:01:58 | <geekosaur> | (I have doctor appointments all week 😞 ) |
| 19:02:41 | <geekosaur> | invoking `unwrapMyMonad` has zero runtime footprint |
| 19:02:49 | <geekosaur> | by definition, since it's part of a newtype |
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| 19:03:20 | <geekosaur> | you can't attach logic to it, so it can't be freeing up resources |
| 19:03:55 | <geekosaur> | so just not making that directly or indirectly (i.e. by GND) available to users should be enough to prevent access |
| 19:04:09 | geekosaur | *poof*s |
| 19:04:57 | <sim590> | I'll take some time to re-read everything that was said. |
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| 19:07:36 | <probie> | I'm also about to become busy, so I can't help much (at least not for another ~12 hours), but if you use `StateT MyMonadState m a` internally, and use `MyMonad m a` for exposedfunctions in your library (and don't derive `MonadState`), it should be fine |
| 19:14:58 | <sim590> | probie: that might be just what I need to do! |
| 19:15:02 | <sim590> | Alright. I'll try that! |
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| 19:53:56 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> so, indexed algebras eh |
| 19:54:15 | <haskellbridge> | <thirdofmay18081814goya> hardest thing I've had to wrap my head around yet |
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| 20:05:59 | <sim590> | probie: what if instead I use these constraints on my functions `(MonadIO m, MonadState MyMonadState m) => ... -> m ()` and I remove `MonadState MyMonadState` of the newtype deriving of MyMonad? Then it will have the same effect, right? |
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| 20:24:15 | <sim590> | Actually, I think that what I'm saying is nonsene. I didn |
| 20:24:21 | <sim590> | I didn't read properly what you said. |
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| 20:40:05 | <sim590> | Oohhh. Can I just not expose the type and constructor of the state. Therefore, even though the user could write `get` inside his MyMonadM action, he could not use `put` to replace the state or even read the fields of the state because the state type is not exposed. |
| 20:40:18 | <sim590> | geekosaur, probie: right? |
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| 20:54:42 | <probie> | sim590: Not good enough. I could pull the `MyMonadState` out of one computation and inject it into a completely separate one, causing a double-free of some resources, and not freeing others. |
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| 20:55:36 | <sim590> | Hmmmm. I see. |
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| 20:56:03 | <probie> | e.g. `main = do { x <- runMyMonad get; runMyMonad (put x) }`, any resources claimed on the second use of `runMyMonad` are never cleaned up |
| 20:56:39 | <probie> | oh, `runMyMonad` doesn't return things, you probably need something like an `IORef` in the middle to do this, but it can still be done |
| 20:57:15 | <hellwolf> | you probably should have a withXYZ pattern |
| 20:57:25 | <hellwolf> | or bracket |
| 20:57:30 | <sim590> | probie: I see the idea though. |
| 20:58:26 | <sim590> | hellwolf: hmmm. Just like `with` and `withCString` and such... |
| 20:59:47 | <hellwolf> | yes, otherwise you will need to use lineartypes to guarantee resource safety; or worse, asking programmers to be nice and follow rituals. |
| 21:00:05 | <hellwolf> | with pattern is common and easy enough. |
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| 21:00:24 | <sim590> | probie: But my `runMyMonadM` has type `MyMonadM () -> IO ()`, so it's not returning anything. Therefore, it cannot return the state? |
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| 21:03:54 | <probie> | sim590: To make concrete how easy that is to bypass. `main = do { ref <- newIORef (undefined :: MyMonadState); runMyMonad (get >>= liftIO . writeIORef ref); runMyMonad (liftIO (readIORef ref) >>= put) }` |
| 21:05:22 | <sim590> | For better context, here's what I have right now: https://github.com/sim590/opendht-hs/blob/be753fac41e8abf98b82ce493c01cb7288fcc3a0/src/OpenDHT/DhtRunner.hs#L200-L215 |
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| 21:07:44 | <sim590> | hellwolf: Idk how hard it could be to change from the state approach to the `with*` approach. I do use some lenses and I want to be able to use that the way I do it inside StateT. |
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| 21:08:16 | <sim590> | probie: what am I missing then to make it perfectly opaque. I'm not sure I get it still. |
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| 21:16:08 | <tomsmeding_> | I didn't follow the conversation, so perhaps this is irrelevant, but the moment you allow the user to execute arbitrary IO in your monad, they can "export" whatever info they want from the computation to elsewhere in the program |
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| 21:18:30 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: I just skimmed the backlog; definitely do not derive MonadState MyMonadState. |
| 21:18:54 | <tomsmeding> | if you don't want the user to get hold of your MyMonadState, don't let them see or touch it :p |
| 21:21:40 | tomsmeding | is wondering what happens if you instantiate `m` in `MyMonad` to `ContT r IO` |
| 21:22:29 | <sim590> | I have no clue what `ContT` is :D |
| 21:22:37 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: I haven't worked it out yet, so I'm not 100% sure, but I fear that the simple fact of allowing an arbitrary `m` there is already breaking your abstraction |
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| 21:22:53 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: this, but that ain't gonna help you :D https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-0.6.1.2/docs/Control-Monad-Trans-Cont.html#t:ContT |
| 21:23:01 | <tomsmeding> | it's one of the more mind-bending monads |
| 21:23:43 | <sim590> | If you want to see exactly what I'm trying to do, here's the file: https://github.com/sim590/opendht-hs/blob/be753fac41e8abf98b82ce493c01cb7288fcc3a0/src/OpenDHT/DhtRunner.hs#L200-L215 |
| 21:25:40 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: from first glance it looks like all your methods run in `DhtRunnerM DhT`, not in `DhtRunnerM m` for any `m`. Would it be acceptable to hard-code the Dht inside DhtRunnerM? |
| 21:25:56 | <sim590> | Yeah |
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| 21:26:41 | <sim590> | I guess I took an example of something I did in the past and I modified it so that it worked. |
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| 21:28:39 | <sim590> | I guess I don't need to make my monad a transformer. The users could just use other transformers on top of my monad if they want it, right? |
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| 21:32:13 | <sim590> | I also have an example test function that illustrates how I see the user using `DhtRunnerM`: https://github.com/sim590/opendht-hs/blob/dhtrunner-test/test/Main.hs |
| 21:34:01 | <zero> | any reason why `fst` and `snd` are not record selectors? |
| 21:35:22 | <Rembane> | zero: Why would they bee? |
| 21:35:24 | <Rembane> | *be |
| 21:36:09 | <hellwolf> | also, what makes a record selector |
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| 22:23:07 | <geekosaur> | zero, tuples are anonymous products, by definition there is nowhere to put record selectors |
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