Logs on 2025-02-02 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:00:31 | <sim590> | Yeah. Well. I can't say for now. I guess, I'll see! :D |
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| 00:02:40 | <Leary> | sim590: For pretend-interleaved STM and IO I like to use `newtype Atom a = Atom (WriterT (IO ()) STM a); io :: IO () -> Atom (); stm :: STM a -> Atom a; atom :: Atom a -> IO a`---might at least help you structure things. |
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| 00:31:14 | <monochrom> | I suspect that "block access" means something that has nothing to do with "block" or "access" because supposedly everyone already knows that if you don't want a certain function to use a certain argument then just don't have that argument in the first place, so why the question. |
| 00:32:16 | <monochrom> | Like even in C if I don't want sin() to mess with my array then just don't give it [the address of] my array, done. |
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| 01:33:18 | <Leary> | Mmmm. Getting to write meaningful rewrite RULES is a rare and special joy, isn't it? Even better, to give a typeclass laws and declare /these laws are **enforced** by rewrite @RULES@/ in the haddocks! |
| 01:33:34 | <Leary> | Break the law and GHC will punish you. >:) |
| 01:33:41 | <Leary> | `Functor` should have gotten this treatment. |
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| 01:36:21 | <int-e> | hmm but assuming properties doesn't enforce them, you're just shifting blame away from the compiler ;-) |
| 01:37:25 | <int-e> | You're introducing undefined behavior. |
| 01:39:41 | <int-e> | I'm not really opposed btw, except that it's hard to do this kind of thing after the fact. |
| 01:39:46 | <Leary> | I'm placing the blame solidly on the unlawful instances, and claiming only /they/ introduce undefined behaviour. :) |
| 01:40:27 | <Leary> | But yeah, sadly too late for `Functor`. |
| 01:40:45 | <int-e> | Yeah C also blames the programmers for introducing undefined behavior into their code. |
| 01:42:00 | <int-e> | I still remember when GCC broke Linux with agressive exploitation of signed overflows. |
| 01:42:14 | <monochrom> | :) |
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| 02:22:56 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Cedille has a nice way to handle rewrite rules. It uses equality proofs that erase to an identity function. Extra safety and speed at the cost of extra theorem proving (after all, if you are using a theorem prover it's because you want to prove theorems). Cedille doesn't seem to insert those automatically tho, you need explicit casts |
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| 02:43:20 | <sim590> | I'm exposing a bunch of lenses generated by haskell templates and GHC complains about lack of documentation for those. What's a common way to fix that? I can't document them if they're not in my file. Can I? |
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| 03:01:36 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Does adding a Haddock comment above the TH invocation to generate lenses work? |
| 03:02:36 | <sim590> | it "does", but it only documents the lens corresponding to the last field of the data type. |
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| 03:07:11 | <Leary> | sim590: Haddock (not GHC) warns about a lot of things, and many of them can't or shouldn't be fixed. Pick your battles and ignore the rest. |
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| 03:10:34 | <sim590> | I see. I guess I'll ignore it for now. |
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| 06:46:22 | <staneko> | ?src ($) |
| 06:46:22 | <lambdabot> | f $ x = f x |
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| 09:30:24 | <probie> | Re: inability to document exported TH generated functions; I wonder if haddock could support documenting functions in the module export list, instead of just at their definition |
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| 10:15:32 | <jackdk> | probie: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/template-haskell-2.23.0.0/changelog#21800 |
| 10:16:22 | <jackdk> | Looks like GHC 9.2 maybe? |
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| 11:07:59 | <geekosaur> | I think the problem there is that makeLenses doesn't use them |
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| 11:56:00 | <lxsameer> | hey folks, do you know how ghc implements functions? internally, does it implement single arguments functions and break down a function into a composition of single arg functions? |
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| 11:57:49 | <geekosaur> | actually it does multi-arg internally and uses "partial application objects" when calling them unsaturated |
| 11:58:07 | <lxsameer> | geekosaur: cool, thank you |
| 11:58:39 | <geekosaur> | one of the errors you're never supposed to see is "PAP object entered" which means it tried to call a partial application as a function |
| 11:59:40 | <lxsameer> | geekosaur: and is there any special behaviour if the number of provided arguments are more than what the function expects? |
| 11:59:53 | <geekosaur> | no |
| 12:00:06 | <geekosaur> | that just means the result of it should be a function |
| 12:00:24 | <lxsameer> | geekosaur: cool thank you |
| 12:00:26 | <geekosaur> | the typechecker will flag it if it isn't |
| 12:01:08 | <lxsameer> | geekosaur: awesome |
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| 12:02:57 | <geekosaur> | breaking things down to actual single parameter functions is certainly doable, but has lousy performance. so in terms of Haskell semantics it makes sense to think that way, but ghc goes for the more performant version |
| 12:03:36 | <geekosaur> | similarly, conceptually IO is best thought of as an impure program passed back to the RTS as the result of `main :: IO ()`, but ghc actually does something more performant |
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| 12:06:17 | <lxsameer> | geekosaur: interesting, is there any resource to get familiar with GHC internals? not in code level but an overview |
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| 12:08:59 | <geekosaur> | https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary |
| 12:09:17 | <lxsameer> | perfect, thank you |
| 12:09:30 | <lxsameer> | wow this is amazing |
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| 20:49:28 | <dminuoso> | probie: Also, you could have a staged build process, where you replace TH with its splices (e.g. -ddump-splices) - perhaps controllable via CPP. |
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| 20:50:08 | <dminuoso> | It's an idea I've played with before to address some of TH shortcomings (every build needlessly recomputing the same splices, cross platform issues) |
| 20:50:35 | <geekosaur> | sadly zeroth is long bitrotted. I don't know if anything's salvageable |
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| 20:51:48 | <dminuoso> | That way the cabal package would default to pre-generated splices, the code would be visible on haddock via [Sources], and haddock works guaranteed. :) |
| 20:52:37 | <dminuoso> | Ah yes, I forgot about zeroth. |
| 20:54:24 | <dminuoso> | If this work was revisited, it should really be implemented in GHC instead. |
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| 22:14:28 | <haskellstudent> | Hello, everyone! I'm trying to create a set of functions whose signature is as : State->(State, Item). There are some cases where a call to such function might return a "StateFail". In such case, the whole procedure should short-circuit and return that StateFail, otherwise the procedure should continue until a terminal state is reached. I know |
| 22:14:28 | <haskellstudent> | about the State monad but I don't see how it synergizes with the short-circuit idea. Any ideas on how I should implement my idea? |
| 22:15:20 | <Rembane> | haskellstudent: Is a monad transformer stack an allowed solution? |
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| 22:16:40 | <haskellstudent> | The solution is only limited by my mental capacity and my ability to understand new concepts :) |
| 22:17:18 | <haskellstudent> | I'm not familiar with monad transformers but I'm willing to learn |
| 22:18:49 | <Rembane> | haskellstudent: Sweet! Then you can combine ExceptT with a StateT to make up the functionality. OTOH, it might be more straightforward to do it in a custom way. |
| 22:20:07 | <haskellstudent> | Alright, thank you for your suggestion, I'll check them out |
| 22:20:30 | <Rembane> | haskellstudent: No worries. Good luck! |
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| 22:42:03 | <ski> | haskellstudent : `MyState -> Maybe (MyState,Item)' |
| 22:42:23 | <ski> | @unmtl StateT MyState Maybe Item |
| 22:42:23 | <lambdabot> | MyState -> Maybe (Item, MyState) |
| 22:42:33 | <ski> | or |
| 22:42:50 | <ski> | @unmtl StateT MyState (Either MyFailure) Item |
| 22:42:50 | <lambdabot> | MyState -> Either MyFailure (Item, MyState) |
| 22:42:59 | <ski> | if you want to have more than one way to fail |
| 22:43:26 | <ski> | @unmtl StateT MyState (ExceptT MyFailure m) Item |
| 22:43:26 | <lambdabot> | MyState -> m (Either MyFailure (Item, MyState)) |
| 22:43:33 | <ski> | @unmtl StateT MyState (MaybeT m) Item |
| 22:43:33 | <lambdabot> | MyState -> m (Maybe (Item, MyState)) |
| 22:43:59 | <ski> | in case you'd like to mix in any other `m' (maybe `IO' or `ST s'), as well |
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All times are in UTC on 2025-02-02.