Logs on 2025-02-06 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 02:32:13 | <r-sta> | hi i have a problem deconstructing a binary tree |
| 02:32:28 | <r-sta> | normally i can deconstruct a tree because it has any number of branches |
| 02:32:34 | <r-sta> | now i cant "traverse" |
| 02:32:41 | <r-sta> | and have to do "one value at a time" |
| 02:32:47 | <r-sta> | idk how to approach this |
| 02:32:53 | <r-sta> | i have never come accross the formalism |
| 02:32:54 | <r-sta> | any help? |
| 02:33:23 | <r-sta> | (its like being forced to do the suspended traversal by the non-deconstructability) |
| 02:33:50 | <r-sta> | (i cant go deconstructing branches and still be left with a *binary* tree) |
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| 02:34:25 | <r-sta> | i think iiuc the traversability of the branches is not from deconstruct/reconstruct |
| 02:34:38 | <r-sta> | and this is somehow tainting the whole structure |
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| 02:40:30 | <Inst__> | Sclv: |
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| 02:40:56 | <sclv> | ? |
| 02:41:05 | <Inst__> | i recently found this guy, you might find him interesting |
| 02:41:07 | <Inst__> | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lawvere |
| 02:41:17 | <sclv> | i’m aware |
| 02:41:44 | <sclv> | and yes, he is |
| 02:41:53 | <r-sta> | what, a topos? |
| 02:42:06 | <Inst__> | Oh, have a good one, found him when I was trying to do dialectics, and got censored off RedNote for asking about basing dialectics in mathematical logic |
| 02:42:30 | <r-sta> | one simply doesnt ought... |
| 02:42:31 | <sclv> | andrei rodin |
| 02:42:52 | <sclv> | has a good book about lawvere in that regars |
| 02:43:03 | <r-sta> | ... |
| 02:43:13 | <Inst__> | Ah, survivors of the Soviet attempt to find a mathematical grounding for Dialectical Materialism? |
| 02:43:51 | <r-sta> | so i think my problem is that if you deconstruct a n-d binary grid, that it creates a view to the reconstructed version, where there is no intermediate type to hold the deconstructed thing. its not an n-d euclidean binary grid, when one of the cells is being viewed |
| 02:44:23 | <r-sta> | like a square with a square corner missing is not a square |
| 02:44:47 | <Inst__> | Thanks for the rec, best of luck. |
| 02:44:49 | <r-sta> | and this is completely messing up all my types. which work on eg, trees with lists as branches |
| 02:45:07 | <r-sta> | ie, where the branches are traversable by virtue of their deconstructability |
| 02:45:29 | <r-sta> | im totally stuck doing everything just on one element, it doesnt follw any of the usual tail recursive patterns |
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| 02:46:39 | <r-sta> | something like "things that can be piecewise deconstructed, by repeated deconstruction. vs things that only support one view" |
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| 02:47:17 | <r-sta> | "how do you expect me to deconstruct the square with the corner missing!! oh no!!" |
| 02:47:18 | <r-sta> | and you have to not try to do that |
| 02:47:32 | <r-sta> | which comes from just wanting to recurse as usual |
| 02:47:51 | <r-sta> | its like "no, you view only one element" |
| 02:47:52 | <r-sta> | and i dont have a type abstraction which supports this |
| 02:48:33 | <r-sta> | assuming i now have to come up with this... any suggestions? |
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| 02:50:02 | <r-sta> | the best i can come up with is that, the view is not returning the type for the thing deconstructed, as the thing not-deconstructed. this means you cant go on to continually apply the deconstruction. ie, through a non, type equality, that the geti,seti paradigm is abstracted over, to settings where repeated deconstruction might not occur |
| 02:50:28 | <r-sta> | previously had, geti+seti = traversable, but now have only this in a special case where the deconstructed thing is the same type as the thing you deconstructed. |
| 02:51:03 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 02:51:16 | <r-sta> | "i can deconstruct your type into a value, some structure data, and another type with the rest of the data" |
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| 02:51:34 | <r-sta> | "if the nother type is the same as the first, this supports recursion and leads to traversability" |
| 02:51:40 | <r-sta> | "if not, you just get a cursor" |
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| 02:51:49 | <r-sta> | makes sense? |
| 02:51:52 | <r-sta> | anyone!? |
| 02:51:56 | <Inst__> | "Axiomatic Method and Category Theory", Andrei Rodin, awesome |
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| 02:52:47 | <r-sta> | argh! people talk here in indirects. despite spacetime developments. very rude. |
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| 03:24:09 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> r-sta didn't give enough context, but I guess a zipper kinda fixes the issues. I don't really know what they were referring to |
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| 03:25:39 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Anyway, any books on category theory using type-theoretic syntax? I got through a ton of introductions and books and still couldn't wrap my head around anything more complex than a limit/colimit |
| 03:29:10 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> I assume the syntax is the issue here, because the standard one has somewhat odd conventions and syntax sugar. I think that having a typechecker to play with the concepts would make a difference too (I've been looking into Cubical stuff and cooltt is probably what I'm looking for in that regard) |
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| 03:32:58 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> The HoTT book (chapter 9) has something really similar to this "type-theoretic category theory book" idea I'm looking for, any other recommendations? |
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| 05:37:53 | <monochrom> | Next time it will be: argh! people don't answer me at all, very rude. |
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| 08:42:15 | <ncf> | Bowuigi: if you're looking for formal category theory, the 1lab has a bunch |
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| 08:49:52 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Yeah but I usually don't understand the stuff there, maybe it is because I browse it like a wiki lol |
| 08:52:22 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> Oh I read "nlab", not 1lab. Thanks, it seems to be what I'm looking for |
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| 09:55:07 | <cawfee> | ncf: hi |
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| 09:56:55 | <ncf> | hello |
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| 12:35:57 | <dminuoso> | I have a type equality constraint from servant that fails: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/3sMtNrYP |
| 12:36:19 | <dminuoso> | My question is: How can I start and debug this to make progress on my own? |
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| 12:38:03 | <dminuoso> | Ideally I would like to ask GHC what both of these types compute to, is that possible? |
| 12:38:11 | <tomsmeding> | use :k! in ghci? |
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| 12:39:05 | <tomsmeding> | there was a ghc version where that didn't actually compute type families, but I believe it's been fixed long ago already |
| 12:44:44 | <dminuoso> | Okay, GToServant is not exported |
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| 12:45:17 | <dminuoso> | Can I tell GHCi to just ignore its own beliefs and let me use it anyway? |
| 12:45:32 | <dminuoso> | Or is vendoring servant the only option? |
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| 12:45:43 | <dminuoso> | Ah screw it, Ill just vendor and export that thing. |
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| 12:47:32 | <dminuoso> | Mmm actually I dont have to, there's a type synoym thats available, great. |
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| 12:51:17 | <dminuoso> | tomsmeding: Mmm, it does not seem to resolve type aliases. |
| 12:51:33 | ← | L29Ah parts (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
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| 12:54:52 | <lxsameer> | hey, I need an effecient finit, and strict collection type. any recommendation? |
| 12:55:53 | <dminuoso> | lxsameer: What kind of collection do you have? |
| 12:56:06 | <dminuoso> | And what kind of access pattern? |
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| 13:01:50 | <mauke> | ... some sort of vector (?) |
| 13:02:39 | <dminuoso> | Or maybe a hashmap? |
| 13:07:19 | <lxsameer> | dminuoso: something similar to a linked list |
| 13:08:37 | <lxsameer> | mauke: a strict vector would do |
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| 16:40:32 | <Wygulmage> | Is there a reference sheet for tasty's "bcompare pattern"s? When I try to compare benchmarks it throws "Could not parse bcompare pattern...". |
| 16:40:51 | <Wygulmage> | I thought the parameter was just the name of another benchmark. |
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| 16:46:39 | <Wygulmage> | Ah, I see. It's in the tasty documentation, not anywhere in Hoogle's tasty-bench entry. |
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| 23:31:45 | <kilolympus> | Not exactly sure where I should ask this (so pardon me if this is the wrong place), but is there a list of available libraries on the Hackage build server? |
| 23:32:16 | <kilolympus> | I want to check if libopus is available to link to while building, or whether I should be prepared for a build failure and need to upload docs manually |
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| 23:43:03 | <geekosaur> | #haskell-infrastructure would probably be the right place, but I'm pretty sure if it's not in a minimal Ubuntu install it won't be there and won't be installed on request |
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All times are in UTC on 2025-02-06.