Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2025-02-16 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:01:27 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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00:02:47 × mhatta quits (~mhatta@www21123ui.sakura.ne.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
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00:25:14 × alfiee quits (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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00:32:27 × __monty__ quits (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
00:42:47 × tri quits (~tri@2601:182:780:720::3538) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
00:54:19 <jackdk> fr33domlover: https://git.sr.ht/~jack/hslua-fennel-demo/tree/master/item/flake.nix
00:54:30 <jackdk> (Permalink: https://git.sr.ht/~jack/hslua-fennel-demo/tree/10d85a90be3e435f729f94cd48835fc7be948bf2/item/flake.nix)
00:56:02 tri joins (~tri@2601:182:780:720::3538)
00:57:12 × bitdex quits (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
01:03:45 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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01:11:42 × sawilagar quits (~sawilagar@user/sawilagar) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
01:13:40 × alfiee quits (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
01:14:56 × remedan quits (~remedan@ip-62-245-108-153.bb.vodafone.cz) (Quit: Bye!)
01:15:36 merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
01:20:23 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
01:20:40 × sprotte24 quits (~sprotte24@p200300d16f1548006ddaf22d616d0438.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving)
01:21:46 × tri quits (~tri@2601:182:780:720::3538) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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01:35:00 × tri quits (~tri@c-73-186-227-171.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:42:45 × alp quits (~alp@2001:861:8ca0:4940:d06c:c4cf:d838:81ae) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
01:57:02 alfiee joins (~alfiee@user/alfiee)
01:57:28 tri joins (~tri@2601:182:780:720::3538)
02:01:12 × alfiee quits (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
02:02:24 × tri quits (~tri@2601:182:780:720::3538) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
02:14:24 tri joins (~tri@2601:182:780:720::3538)
02:20:09 × tri quits (~tri@2601:182:780:720::3538) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
02:33:19 bitdex joins (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex)
02:33:35 tri joins (~tri@2601:182:780:720::3538)
02:35:08 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
02:38:24 × tri quits (~tri@2601:182:780:720::3538) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
02:38:30 × Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
02:39:13 × JeremyB99 quits (~JeremyB99@2607:ac80:407:7:5e7e:efd1:d728:8e0b) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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02:49:53 × alfiee quits (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
02:52:33 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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02:53:35 × JeremyB99 quits (~JeremyB99@2607:ac80:407:7:bdc0:dd66:91:d0a2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:57:45 tri joins (~tri@2601:182:780:720::3538)
03:03:49 × tri quits (~tri@2601:182:780:720::3538) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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03:23:00 × tri quits (~tri@2601:182:780:720::3538) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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03:34:59 × infinity0 quits (~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
03:35:00 × JeremyB99 quits (~JeremyB99@2607:ac80:407:7:bdc0:dd66:91:d0a2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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03:41:37 × tri quits (~tri@2601:182:780:720::3538) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
03:50:48 × JeremyB99 quits (~JeremyB99@2607:ac80:407:7:bdc0:dd66:91:d0a2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:53:47 tri joins (~tri@c-73-186-227-171.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
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04:03:21 × Unicorn_Princess quits (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
04:03:42 × JeremyB99 quits (~JeremyB99@2607:ac80:407:7:bdc0:dd66:91:d0a2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
04:08:20 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
04:08:45 × tri quits (~tri@c-73-186-227-171.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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04:33:28 × JeremyB99 quits (~JeremyB99@2607:ac80:407:7:bdc0:dd66:91:d0a2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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05:14:41 × euphores quits (~SASL_euph@user/euphores) (Quit: Leaving.)
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05:48:07 tnt2 is now known as tnt1
05:49:13 × JeremyB99 quits (~JeremyB99@2607:ac80:407:7:bdc0:dd66:91:d0a2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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06:39:33 × tri quits (~tri@2601:182:780:720::3538) (Quit: Leaving...)
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08:00:01 × caconym quits (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
08:00:02 × tt12310978324354 quits (~tt1231@2603:6010:8700:4a81:219f:50d3:618a:a6ee) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
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08:25:54 × alfiee quits (~alfiee@user/alfiee) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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13:00:28 <mreh> c_wraith: as promised, code with the misunderstanding I'm having with StableName: https://github.com/mrehayden1/shaders/tree/memo
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13:03:06 <mreh> if you look at examples/Main.hs there's a couple of shader functions (lines 124-129) that reduplicate effort in the output GLSL, which I'm trying to "memoize" using temporary variable assignments.
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13:06:01 <mreh> I figured if I checked the StableName of an expression's assignment and returned the output rather than do the assignment again, but the StableName is changing between evluations of the same reference
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13:06:40 <mreh> I thought it might be lack of strictness, but adding $! in what I think is the right place hasn't fixed it
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13:14:46 <mreh> I think maybe the question is, are functions with the same arguments not always guaranteed to return the same object every time (i.e. same StableName)
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13:19:03 <int-e> stablenames are only stable as long as they're kept alive
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13:22:34 <int-e> ah that's not the question
13:22:44 <int-e> no, there's no guarantee that equal values are shared
13:22:52 <mreh> int-e: yeah, the sub expression I'm trying to memoize isn't being GCed
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13:23:10 <int-e> so if you evaluate 300+300 twice you can get 2 different heap objects representing 600.
13:23:33 <mreh> int-e: okay, makes sense
13:23:42 <mreh> what is the way to do this then I wonder...
13:24:30 <mreh> give a subexpression a name and look that up when it's reevaluated?
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15:17:02 <mreh> is there absolutely no way to guarantee that the same expression evaluated twice will refer to the same object?
15:18:17 <mreh> are there any conditions where it will?
15:18:19 <geekosaur> use a `let` binding, otherwise no way
15:18:31 <int-e> You have to either only evaluate it once (use `let` to ensure sharing) or do your own bookkeeping.
15:19:46 <int-e> (IIUC in your context you ultimately have symbolic representations of the expressions, so you can hash those and compare)
15:20:08 <mreh> so I've got this, but it's as if m were evaluated 4 times when I run the program: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/kGxPNt3z
15:21:38 <mreh> let me provide more context: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/zqPDGDpR
15:22:06 <mreh> actually, you need to see more: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/HJZNjKIn
15:22:33 <mreh> everything works when I move the makeStableName to the tellAssigment and pass the StableName into memoize
15:23:31 <mreh> which implies `m` in `toV4S` is being reevaluated
15:24:51 <mreh> (ExprM is a synonym for MemoT)
15:25:52 <mreh> it's like the `m` in `toV4S` isn't being shared between the four values in the V4 when they're evaluated.
15:25:54 <mauke> isn't that execution (and not evaluation)?
15:26:13 <mreh> mauke: explain the difference
15:26:44 <mauke> main = let m = putStrLn "hi" in m >> m >> m
15:26:53 <mauke> m is only evaluated once. "hi" is printed thrice
15:28:32 <int-e> Hmm does this need a {-# NOINLINE m #-}? m doesn't look like a value (it's represented as a function) which might encourage GHC to inline it, breaking sharing?
15:29:01 <int-e> even if that works though... this feels super fragile to me
15:29:59 <mreh> mauke: this feels significant, but I don't understand how GHC executes that fully
15:30:33 <mreh> int-e: probably, I'm basing this off of GPipe, which uses this pure interface to shader programming.
15:31:01 <mreh> doesn't NOINLINE only apply to top level definitions?
15:31:11 <mreh> and things like class methods
15:32:52 <mreh> this all may never have worked properly in GPipe
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15:33:16 <int-e> > let {-# NOINLINE x #-}; x :: Int; x = 42 in x
15:33:17 <lambdabot> 42
15:34:19 <int-e> Anyway, I'd try adding NOINLINE but I don't know whether it makes any difference.
15:36:22 <mreh> int-e: no dice
15:37:25 <mreh> the performance of this lib feels like it's always going to be at the mercy of your GHC
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15:37:49 <int-e> oh hrm. but you *need*N tellAssignment to be inlined or the `do` thunk will be built several times
15:37:52 <int-e> soooo fragile
15:38:11 <int-e> did I mention it's likely to break ;-)
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15:39:11 <mreh> is there anyway to maintain the pure interface and still use some kind of reference equality for common sub expression elimination?
15:40:26 <mreh> the GLSL looks like this currently: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/7LhNc09h
15:40:40 <int-e> you can maybe make this work a bit better if you pass a key to `memoize` (and use `expr` as that key in `tellAssignment`)... but it'll surely break on slightly more complicated examples
15:41:04 <int-e> instead of using the whole monadic action that has just been built as the key
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15:42:00 <mreh> like an incremented IORef?
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15:43:15 <int-e> mreh: I mean this (untested): https://paste.tomsmeding.com/rKJG1gUD
15:44:07 <mreh> ah yeah, that did fix it in some cases
15:44:10 <int-e> it may well be unsafe as is
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15:45:00 <int-e> (it may result in `expr` ending up as keys for several different things)
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15:46:04 <mreh> what about some unsafePerformIO magic?
15:46:28 <int-e> sounds unsafe
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16:28:44 <mreh> int-e: so that trick you suggested works in the case of `toV4S` but doesn't work in the case of `bin`: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/9BlXfu7R
16:28:50 <mreh> this is all very confusing
16:29:18 <mreh> (`bin` is for binary operators)
16:30:00 <int-e> mreh: your problem is that whatever you use as a key for `makeStableName` must actually be the same heap object each time in order for those uses to be shared
16:30:10 <int-e> and it's easy that it's reevaluated instead
16:30:19 <int-e> ...it easily happens, I mean
16:31:05 <mreh> even when bound with a let binding?
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16:32:47 <int-e> where's the let binding?
16:33:42 <int-e> presumably the thing that is shared is an application of `bin` but `bin` is too big too be inlined, so the `do` block is recreated each time. But that's your key... a new heap object each time.
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16:35:09 <mreh> example shader: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/QFg7hShC
16:35:40 <mreh> s' is bound in a let, so I'm expecting that do block you mentioned not to be recreated each time
16:36:28 <mreh> instead I get two GLSL expressions doing the same computation
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16:37:23 <geekosaur> this sounds like the evaluation vs. execution thing mauke mentioned earlier
16:37:43 <geekosaur> the do block may not be duplicated, but it needs to be executed to get its result and that will be done twice
16:38:17 <int-e> The only way the `do` block isn't duplicated is if `bin` is inlined.
16:38:43 <mreh> geekosaur: that's what I'm trying to avoid, see memoize here https://paste.tomsmeding.com/9BlXfu7R
16:38:52 <int-e> Otherwise it'll become a freshly allocated thunk that refers `op`, `a`, and `b`.
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16:39:47 <int-e> And the fact that `op`, `a`, and `b` don't change doesn't matter at that point; that just means the two created thunks carry the same data.
16:40:00 <mreh> riiight
16:40:03 <int-e> This whole StableName business is doomed.
16:40:06 <int-e> IMHO
16:40:18 <mreh> That did it!
16:40:28 <mreh> lol, what a blessing
16:40:35 <mreh> adding INLINEs fixed it
16:40:56 <int-e> (Yes, you can push the boundary of examples that work and examples that don't work, but you will continue to run into cases where things that you'd like to be shared aren't shared.)
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16:41:17 <mreh> int-e: it's likely you're right
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