Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2025-03-01 (liberachat/#haskell)

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00:01:07 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> you could hack it with CPP, i suppose
00:01:14 <c_wraith> You can do better than that
00:01:42 <c_wraith> You can put platform-specific stuff in separate trees and conditionally include those trees depending on platform in cabal
00:02:05 <c_wraith> But it involves a lot of manual work, and a good platform would have a better abstraction for that.
00:02:15 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> but the entire point is so that you're building full stack in one module, one module at a time
00:02:43 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> tbh with CPP, you don't actually need Haskell
00:06:10 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isomorphic_JavaScript
00:06:16 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> also this is basically what i was looking for, oh well
00:12:33 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> that also brings miso into play, which advertises itself as isomorphic
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01:07:47 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> but c_wraith, I'm still wondering, if you have a simple datatype of backend, frontend, client
01:08:00 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> i mean, you can still opt to go the compiler plugin route
01:08:01 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> ugh
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09:03:09 <[exa]> morning all! saturday package scan: is there anything like Aeson that would somewhat transparently work with JSON-LD "annotations"? I assume it could be done quite reasonably with custom aeson instances, but ideally I'd like autogenerated instances that have the proper annotations already.
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09:50:06 <euouae> Hello if I want to include numbers in my source files is it possible without breaking the emacs IDE or lsp etc?
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09:54:02 <tomsmeding> ... what
09:54:19 <tomsmeding> > 2
09:54:20 <lambdabot> 2
09:54:23 <tomsmeding> those kinds of numbers?
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10:24:04 <[exa]> tomsmeding: might be that LSP nowadays breaks even on this
10:28:37 <tomsmeding> [exa]: I can tell you that I am successfully using numbers in my haskell code
10:28:56 <tomsmeding> the neither my editor, nor the LSP, nor HLS breaks on numbers
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10:35:08 <Leary> I fear they're trying to write HASIC.
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10:35:42 <tomsmeding> it would be hilarious if someone actually made an implementation of HASIC
10:35:44 <sprout> line numbers I assume
10:36:13 <tomsmeding> euouae: the tension is killing, enlighten us
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10:38:05 <mauke> 10 main :: IO ()
10:38:09 <mauke> 20 main = do
10:38:17 <mauke> 30 putStrLn "hello"
10:38:22 <mauke> 40 goto 20
10:38:38 <tomsmeding> what would that even _mean_
10:39:03 <mauke> just be glad that I didn't jump into the type signature!
10:39:35 <tomsmeding> somewhat, but I'm still uncomfortable
10:40:31 <mauke> oh, I just thought of another way to "include numbers in my source files"
10:40:37 <mauke> #include "/dev/fd/0"
10:41:23 <tomsmeding> that's about as reasonable an interpretation as claiming that they're used to macOS and actually meant a spreadsheet
10:43:22 <tomsmeding> mauke: on second thoughts I'm starting to like your last suggestion
10:43:42 <tomsmeding> it's as close as you're going to get to "including" a "number", really
10:46:37 <euouae> tomsmeding: oh sorry, I mean file *names*
10:46:57 <tomsmeding> we were getting so close!
10:47:03 <euouae> I'm doing some leetcode challenges but 123.hs is bad I think
10:47:21 <tomsmeding> works perfectly fine for me
10:47:26 <euouae> anyway right now I just have all the solutions in one file separated by -- *
10:47:27 <tomsmeding> it's not a valid file name in a cabal project
10:47:36 <euouae> oh yeah, I use cabal
10:47:39 <tomsmeding> but as a single file, HLS is okay with it for me
10:47:53 <tomsmeding> in a cabal project, a module file must always have the module name as its file name
10:47:58 <tomsmeding> and module names must start with a capital letter
10:48:19 <euouae> Perhaps I can do something like E123.hs for exercise 123?
10:48:22 <tomsmeding> yes
10:48:35 <euouae> Okay, thank you. I'm actually thinking I'll just keep it all in one flat file
10:49:14 <tomsmeding> euouae: imagine what would happen if you would try to use such a module qualified
10:49:20 <tomsmeding> > Data.Maybe.isJust (Just 42)
10:49:22 <lambdabot> True
10:49:37 <tomsmeding> would that be `Exercises.12 input`? how would the parser even know what you mean tthere
10:50:28 <euouae> I get ti
10:50:40 <euouae> Another stupid question, in my test/ I have Main.hs and Tests.hs
10:50:55 <euouae> Tests.hs has the hedgehog generated/discovered tests, how can I import that in Main.hs?
10:51:05 <tomsmeding> `import Tests`?
10:51:10 <euouae> I get `These modules are needed for compilation but not listed in your .cabal file's other-modules for ‘leetcode-0.1.0.0-inplace-leetcode-test’ :`
10:51:17 <euouae> naming Tests as the module
10:51:27 <euouae> It's a warning-Wmissing-home-modules
10:51:27 <tomsmeding> right, you need `other-modules: Tests` in the test-suite block in your cabal file
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10:51:55 <tomsmeding> you always need to list all modules that you're defining in the cabal file, either in other-modules or in exposed-modules (the latter relevant only for libraries)
10:52:26 <euouae> nice, thakn you
10:54:14 <Leary> tomsmeding: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/BASIC-0.1.5.0/docs/Language-BASIC.html
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11:13:03 <euouae> Does anyone know how I can turn off all the hlint recommendations
11:13:08 <euouae> holy cow they're annoying on emacs
11:13:56 <euouae> You're moving the cursor point on a symbol to see its type and boom Clippy pops up "It looks like you're not optimizing your endofunctors here"
11:14:21 <euouae> I've tried to turn them off selectively I'm thinking that I just don't want them at all
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11:17:37 <tomsmeding> euouae: figure out where you put language server configuration in your emacs LSP client
11:17:56 <tomsmeding> the setting you need to set is haskell.plugin.hlint.globalOn = false
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11:24:45 <tomsmeding> Leary: I've actually seen that before, it's genius
11:27:37 <euouae> thank you!!
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11:28:02 <tomsmeding> (I have that set, as well as haskell.plugin.stan.globalOn = false)
11:28:09 <euouae> what's that?
11:28:15 <tomsmeding> more annoying messages :3
11:28:17 <euouae> I think stan is the otehr one. I've noticed I get lint-like things from 2 difefrent sources
11:29:02 <tomsmeding> I'm not saying stan or hlint are bad, I personally just don't need or want them in my editor (and I think HLS is a bit over-eager in making them opt-out instead of opt-in)
11:29:10 <euouae> They should be opt-in
11:29:27 <euouae> but anyway, the slice of haskell + emacs programmers is so small that maybe it doesn't matter
11:29:39 <euouae> they're just not interacting well with emacs, that's all
11:29:49 <tomsmeding> euouae: how does it look in emacs?
11:30:01 <euouae> It's attention-grabbing and erratic
11:30:20 <euouae> pop up messages that hide other stuff, etc
11:30:26 <tomsmeding> I find them annoying in vim too but from what you're saying it's not quite as bad :)
11:30:31 <tomsmeding> do warnings also pop up?
11:30:36 <tomsmeding> I'd find that annoying too :p
11:30:40 <euouae> no, those are in a separate window
11:30:52 <euouae> I can check whatever I need when I check that window
11:31:02 <euouae> but I don't want squiggly lines, annoying pop ups, etc
11:31:06 <tomsmeding> oh wait 'info'-level messages are more in-your-face than warnings?
11:31:15 <euouae> yeah lol
11:31:19 <tomsmeding> that sounds like a mistake in the emacs lsp client :p
11:31:32 <tomsmeding> because this is not just HLS, those levels are in the LSP protocol in general
11:31:54 <euouae> Emasc UI is not designed for *all* intents and purposes. Certain things are anti patterns in emacs
11:31:58 <euouae> in particular popup messages
11:32:20 <tomsmeding> sounds like this is your chance to improve emacs :)
11:32:22 <euouae> well I can't fix everything, so I'll just ignore this
11:32:26 <euouae> yeah I knew you were going to say this
11:32:28 <tomsmeding> :p
11:32:34 <euouae> I've sent hundreds of useless stupid patches over time
11:32:45 <euouae> and sometimes, I've even gotten into fights for those stupid patches... I'm kind of checked out
11:32:58 <tomsmeding> I totally understand :p
11:36:45 <euouae> sweet! I got it to work. thank you
11:36:59 <tomsmeding> yay
11:38:42 <euouae> tomsmeding: it doesn't help I have a generally different temperament from the average programmer. kind of a short fuse, and it's been getting shorter... It's only so many times I can keep it together when I send a doc patch that turns into a feature rewrite into getting lectured on x86 assembly cycle cost
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11:38:57 <tomsmeding> heh
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11:39:55 <tomsmeding> the nice thing about open source is that you can contribute, but also that you can fork, and furthermore that nobody requires you to contribute :p
11:41:03 <euouae> When I was a wee bit naive I thought it was a good idea to spend a few months studying the source of a somewhat complicated program (cryptography, etc) before sending a message to the dev, asking to join the project
11:41:50 <euouae> I got a really deflationary message in response. I thought, I know, I'll rewrite it in Rust. A few more weeks, (or months was it?) I realized I made the wrong design choice by going with green threads because the rust USB library does not support them
11:42:30 <euouae> and then libusb + async was this huge rabbit hole wish list item that I never went down to. gave up ;p
11:42:38 <tomsmeding> yeah in the haskell playground readme I have a note saying to get in contact before you write lots of code, precisely for this reason
11:42:58 <euouae> No, you're so right. But sometimes you make mistakes before you learn
11:43:35 <tomsmeding> re forking: I build my own HLS because I have a particular patch that I want in there but I'm too lazy to properly contribute a configuration setting for it
11:43:52 <tomsmeding> I asked for that setting (can't find the issue now) but it never materialised, so periodic room heating is what it is
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11:44:46 <euouae> lol
11:45:46 <tomsmeding> here we go https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server/pull/2332#issuecomment-965094062
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11:47:25 <euouae> looks like your questoin went unanswered heh
11:47:40 <tomsmeding> I even specifically gave them licence to not answer
11:47:56 <tomsmeding> I'm not blaming them :p
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13:57:23 <Axman6> Anyone know why when I have an executable in my cabal file, when I use "ghc-options: -O2 -threaded -rtsopts -with-rtsopts=-N" I get "unexpected RTS argument: "-N"" and the rts help printed out, including the help telling me I can use -N?
13:58:04 <Axman6> It's particularly frustrating because I can see there's thousands of cabal files on github using exactly this pattern
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14:03:58 <Axman6> URGH, cabal build wasn't rebuilding my binary when the flags changed! FFS
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14:07:41 <mauke> ca-ching
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14:29:18 <int-e> Axman6: Let me go out on a limb and ask... what non-ELF platform is this?
14:34:34 <int-e> (cabal-install relies on GHC for recompilation checks. I learned recently that GHC stores compile flags in a special section in ELF executables to make that work, but not on other platforms)
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15:07:55 <Axman6> it is indeed macOS
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19:16:23 <Guest1> Good evening everyone (GMT+1) here
19:16:41 <Guest1> I have a strange issue with cabal/ghc
19:17:04 <Guest1> Currently working under macOS, no idea if it’s related
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19:21:01 <Guest1> I created an empty project (cabal init), filled two dependencies (duckdb-haskell, yaml), and « cabal build »… then cabal seems stuck with the message « Building     duckdb-haskell-0.1.0.0 (lib) ». No network usage, no CPU… nothing.
19:22:44 <[exa]> Guest1: wow, can you try something like `dtrace` if available to check where it is stuck?
19:22:58 <[exa]> maybe it's `truss`, on linux it's normally `strace`
19:23:26 <haskellbridge> <sm> Guest1, check if it's using up your memory, with top
19:23:58 <haskellbridge> <sm> * memory and swapping,
19:24:23 <haskellbridge> <sm> you could also make it more verbose with -v
19:25:18 <Guest1> using top and the monitor (graphical top for macosx) only shows the cabal process, but no cpu, no memory hogs
19:25:35 <haskellbridge> <sm> (as a mac user, I can say that trace/truss won't be easy)
19:25:52 <Guest1> With -v, it stops on the message. Running: /Users/slac/.ghcup/bin/cabal-3.12.1.0 act-as-setup '--build-type=Simple' -- build '--verbose=2' '--builddir=dist'
19:26:01 <haskellbridge> <sm> maybe it's hung on networking then ?
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19:27:34 <Guest1> good idea : I do have a firewall which could block scripts and terminal commands. I usually do get alert messages when some program tries to access the Internet, but maybe it’s silently failing here.
19:29:49 <Guest1> Hmm… not sure, not seeing anything on the FW. I do not know dtrace, how could it help me on this ?
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19:33:40 <haskellbridge> <sm> do you have little snitch running ? Nothing recently denied ?
19:34:22 <Guest1> No. The issue seems to come from the duckdb package. cabal works fine if I remove that dependency.
19:34:36 <[exa]> Guest1: ah it's `dtruss` on mac, sorry for confusion. Basically you can connect it to a process and see what systemcall it's hung on. See e.g. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/31045575/how-to-trace-system-calls-of-a-program-in-mac-os-x
19:35:16 <[exa]> (wow the thread even shows `ktrace` as alternative, never seen that, cool.)
19:35:26 <haskellbridge> <sm> That's a 10 year old answer unfortunately, it's much harder to do now
19:35:42 <haskellbridge> <sm> Guest, I would run cabal with more verbose output
19:36:23 <haskellbridge> <sm> oh, you did
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19:37:05 <haskellbridge> <sm> maybe duckdb does something funny in its Setup.hs
19:37:32 <haskellbridge> <sm> it seems to be not a published package
19:37:57 <haskellbridge> <sm> do you mean https://hackage.haskell.org/package/duckdb-haskell ?
19:38:05 <Guest1> sorry, dtruss doesn’t work because of security protection
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19:38:14 <Guest1> sm: yes I do
19:39:07 <haskellbridge> <sm> possibly related: https://github.com/sighingnow/duckdb-haskell/issues/1
19:40:03 <Guest1> yes indeed…
19:40:11 <geekosaur> my butt says system protections are slowing it for some reason. (on windows almost certainly true; you need to disable antivirus scanning for some things to run at normal speed)
19:40:58 <geekosaur> I think ghcup instal lon windows warns you of this, although it might not detect wsl2 install. but this is a mac so w/e
19:41:06 <haskellbridge> <sm> I haven't heard of mac SIP causing slowness.. usually it just says no
19:41:27 <Guest1> It’s the issue’s birthday, by the way ;)
19:42:20 <haskellbridge> <sm> that's a lot of cpp files. But compiling those should be fast and shouldn't hang, right
19:42:40 <Guest1> Maybe it’ll only take 10 minutes, I have an M3, which is supposed to be faster :)
19:43:07 <Guest1> Thank you, everyone. Very much.
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20:02:55 <haskellbridge> <sm> sustained no cpu activity sounds suspect though.
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20:35:41 <Guest1> yes, indeed. That’s why I was confused in the first place, as it was my first guess (cpu or network hog)
20:38:23 <haskellbridge> <sm> if stuck, maybe download that package and compare building from the source tree
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20:38:46 <haskellbridge> <sm> and/or with stack
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20:40:51 <haskellbridge> <sm> I tried building here.. what did you do to satisfy " #include <memory>" ?
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20:53:53 <mauke> <memory> is a standard C++ header
21:04:18 <haskellbridge> <sm> not here..
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21:07:19 <haskellbridge> <sm> or rather: I just wanted to know what my fellow mac user did to avoid this when building duckdb-haskell https://termbin.com/bkgs
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21:08:39 <sm> but they've moved on
21:08:49 <sm> and I should too. :)
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21:41:32 <kaol> GHC is too easy to use. I propose that every extension has to have a word in their name with a different spelling in British and US English and that we randomize which one to use for each.
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21:43:19 <c_wraith> that's still just memorization. better randomize the correct choice for each compilation
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21:46:01 <mauke> include some fake british spellings, too
21:46:05 <mauke> like motour or diametre
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22:01:18 <monochrom> I propose that GHC requires you to login to a github account, a google account, a microsoft account, an apple acount, and an amazon acount; and then it sends a verification code by whatsapp.
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22:02:04 <monochrom> 6FA (TM)
22:02:23 <enikar> lol
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22:06:03 <kaol> And delete source files on type errors. No wait, that was a real feature.
22:09:16 <monochrom> Then also delete source files on runtime errors.
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22:09:52 <monochrom> <-- was discussing static typing vs dynamic typing yesterday for a class
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22:10:42 <monochrom> And why not: delete GHC itself on GHC panics.
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22:30:19 <haskellbridge> <sm> I propose that extensions should be automatically enabled as needed, like cabal build flags
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22:31:59 <haskellbridge> <sm> using AI to work around ghc, libs, hls, platform issues
22:38:47 <int-e> how does that work, do you ask the AI to assure you that there are no issues?
22:41:40 <haskellbridge> <sm> Uh, ghc and all the tools call AI for help and try something different instead of just printing an error like caveman tech
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22:44:55 <haskellbridge> <sm> I'm only half joking. I'd pay for a vs code addon that augments haskell tool error messages with more useful advice and up to date links
22:45:28 <haskellbridge> <sm> we're all doing a ton of machine work
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