Logs on 2025-04-01 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:26:38 | <roconnor> | Happy Birthday Haskell |
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| 00:34:54 | <EvanR> | haskell was an april fools joke? |
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| 00:40:04 | <Axma91836> | b/nick Axman6 |
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| 00:41:59 | <haskellbridge> | <lowtex> Hey, I'm using NixOS & Cabal & GHC 9.12.1. I want to utilize "hmatrix-gls" (0.19.0.1). But "cabal new-build all --preference="Cabal >= 3.14.1.1" --keep-going --enable-debug-info=3" inside of "nix develop --impure --expr 'with import <nixpkgs> {}; mkShell rec { buildInputs = [pkg-config zlib blas lapack gsl]; LD_LIBRARY_PATH = lib.makeLibraryPath buildInputs;}'" leads to "<no location info>: error: …/libgsl.so:... |
| 00:42:04 | <haskellbridge> | ... undefined symbol: cblas_ctrmv". Any idea? Thx in advance! |
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| 00:43:44 | <geekosaur> | might be better off asking in a nix room, but that sounds like the version of blas you're getting isn't supported by the gsl version you're getting |
| 00:44:03 | <geekosaur> | and probably unrelated to Haskell |
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| 00:48:23 | <roconnor> | EvanR: yep |
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| 00:51:56 | <haskellbridge> | <lowtex> Among other things, I've tried to (1) utilize "openblas" instead and to (2) link dynamically "shared: True↵executable-dynamic: True" |
| 00:51:58 | <haskellbridge> | @irc_libera.chat_geekosaur:kf8nh.com Thanks for your suggestion, I'll reach out there. But I don't have experience with those tools themselves, so I don't have the basis to attempt to pair some versions haphazardly by myself. |
| 00:51:59 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
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| 01:27:39 | <monochrom> | I think it goes more meta. There was an April Fool's joke that claimed that Haskell was an April Fool's joke. #ModalLogic |
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| 01:31:15 | <EvanR> | April Fools is a monad |
| 01:31:41 | <monochrom> | hehe |
| 01:31:51 | <EvanR> | multiple burrito layers of joke |
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| 07:59:28 | <hellwolf> | I just made a categorical rewrite of base, called catbase, where you can write program such as "main :: forall k. k Void (IO ())" which produces a IO effect in the category k. This allows you to write a runtime completely in rust and optimizes the f out of the generated giant morphism, including using AVX/NEON instructions for all tight loops. |
| 07:59:28 | <hellwolf> | The best part is, it is the April fool's day. |
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| 08:43:55 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: I feel like https://github.com/compiling-to-categories/concat unironically tries to do that, apart from the Rust |
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| 09:24:24 | <hellwolf> | :) Make april fool the day of radical innovation |
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| 11:08:58 | <kqr> | If I have a function returning a Maybe of something, and I want to return a Nothing, I can return `mempty` but I can also return `empty`. I have a rough intuition that `mempty` is more appropriate for things that are supposed to be aggregated together, whereas `empty` is more appropriate for things that are supposed to be used a choices. But how would I know which to use? |
| 11:09:16 | <kqr> | I could, of course, also return a plain `Nothing` but in this case I want the function to be generic over both Maybe values and lists. |
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| 11:16:03 | <merijn> | kqr: If the type is fixed to be Maybe there is not distinction |
| 11:16:18 | <merijn> | otoh, if the type is fixed to be Maybe, why not just write Nothing for readability |
| 11:16:53 | <kqr> | This is in a module-private function that is called by two other exported functions, one of which specialise it to Maybe a, and the other to [a] |
| 11:17:33 | <kqr> | I guess another way to phrase the question would be "When a result is interpreted either as a Maybe a or [a], is Monoid or Alternative the most intuitive generalisation?" |
| 11:18:19 | <kqr> | Notably, this function only uses pure and empty, it never uses operators <|> or <> |
| 11:18:34 | <Leary> | kqr: `mempty` would impose an unwanted `Semigroup` constraint. Also, I suspect you really want `guard`. |
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| 11:19:29 | <merijn> | Leary: You mean Monoid |
| 11:19:40 | <merijn> | Semigroups (pretty notably) do not have mempty |
| 11:19:48 | <merijn> | In fact, it's like, their main distinguishing feature :p |
| 11:20:24 | <Leary> | Well, generalising, yeah. I was thinking about `instance Semigroup a => Monoid (Maybe a)`. |
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| 11:24:37 | <Leary> | > let test = [guard False $> 'a', guard True $> 'a'] in (test :: [String], test :: [Maybe Char]) |
| 11:24:39 | <lambdabot> | (["","a"],[Nothing,Just 'a']) |
| 11:29:36 | <kqr> | I guess that is a vote in favour of Alternative? |
| 11:31:12 | <Leary> | Indeed. |
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| 12:14:49 | <hellwolf> | This one I did not know. Why It is a "redundant bang pattern" using in line 4: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/1KVgpGax ? |
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| 12:15:54 | <hellwolf> | > Bang patterns do not have any effect with constructor patterns: |
| 12:15:56 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:64: error: |
| 12:15:56 | <lambdabot> | parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) |
| 12:16:02 | <hellwolf> | just read the doc. |
| 12:16:41 | <hellwolf> | good to know. thanks hlint. |
| 12:16:47 | <hellwolf> | makes sense. |
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| 12:34:15 | <tomsmeding> | (in order to know that it is indeed that constructor, the runtime will have to evaluate it down to a constructor anyway. That's why it's strict.) |
| 12:34:44 | <tomsmeding> | (This reasoning doesn't quite hold up for single-constructor data types, but for uniformity and "principle of least surprise" it makes much more sense to extend this principle to single-constructor data types too.) |
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| 12:59:21 | <hellwolf> | is there optimization regarding single-constructor data type? |
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| 13:55:44 | <EvanR> | hellwolf, bang patterns are syntax sugar for seq |
| 13:58:33 | <EvanR> | semantically at least |
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| 14:03:40 | <EvanR> | a special case I found is let !x = e in body ==> let x = e in x `seq` body |
| 14:04:23 | <EvanR> | so if x is a constructor pattern, the seq wouldn't have any effect |
| 14:05:39 | <tomsmeding> | yes it would, a let is lazy |
| 14:05:49 | <tomsmeding> | the bang-on-constructor-that-has-no-effect is in a pattern match |
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| 14:06:18 | <hellwolf> | `let !(x1, x2) in _` is different than `let (!x1, !x2) in _`; it doesn't make intuitive sense, or does it to you? |
| 14:07:51 | <tomsmeding> | it does; ! evaluates to WHNF |
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| 14:08:16 | <tomsmeding> | the WHNF of a type is _just_ the outermost constructor, plus any strict fields of that constructor |
| 14:08:36 | <tomsmeding> | the 2 fields of (,) are lazy, so evaluating a value of type (Int, Int) to WHNF just evaluates the outer (,) constructor, not the contained Ints |
| 14:09:00 | <tomsmeding> | `(!x1, !x2)` evaluates the two fields explicitly, and thus also implicitly the constructor from which the two fields are projected |
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| 14:10:04 | <hellwolf> | if (!x1, !x2), should it not imply that the constructor has been also strictly evaluated? |
| 14:10:17 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 14:10:28 | <tomsmeding> | that's what I meant with "implicitly the constructor ..." |
| 14:10:33 | <hellwolf> | but it's not. let me shend you an example. |
| 14:10:53 | <hellwolf> | (i don't know why) |
| 14:10:57 | <hellwolf> | btw re WHNF. need a sister thread for coming up with an enterprise naming for WHNF (reference: if you haven't seen the thread for having a "approachable name" of monad on X) |
| 14:11:38 | <tomsmeding> | lax-face standard shape |
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| 14:17:27 | <hellwolf> | I can't seem to recreate the scenario in a smaller example. to bad. |
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| 14:22:53 | <hellwolf> | oh, i got it. need 9.10. |
| 14:24:11 | <hellwolf> | here you go: (x, y) = xy |
| 14:24:21 | <hellwolf> | oops, code gone |
| 14:24:48 | <hellwolf> | :( playground C-z fail. |
| 14:24:57 | <hellwolf> | (I accidentally clicked Basic Template button. |
| 14:28:04 | <tomsmeding> | :o |
| 14:28:24 | <hellwolf> | https://play.haskell.org/saved/h4hw8OFx |
| 14:28:29 | <hellwolf> | anyways, retyped. |
| 14:28:47 | <tomsmeding> | oh this is linear haskell specific |
| 14:29:32 | <tomsmeding> | I suspect this is more about specifically the multiplicity inference rules in LinearHaskell than about strictness |
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| 14:39:28 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: that C-z not working is a bug and I'll fix it, but how did you manage to type all that code before the button disappeared? |
| 14:39:56 | <tomsmeding> | or does it not disappear for you? |
| 14:40:38 | <hellwolf> | I typed then I wanted to share. |
| 14:40:43 | <hellwolf> | but I clicked the wrong button :/ |
| 14:41:22 | <tomsmeding> | the button is supposed to disappear after about 4 seconds after you interact with the page |
| 14:41:31 | <tomsmeding> | the fact that it was stil there for you means that that didn't work |
| 14:41:34 | <hellwolf> | it shows up all the time for me |
| 14:41:51 | <hellwolf> | I think it responds to input event. |
| 14:42:07 | <tomsmeding> | what browser are you using? |
| 14:42:21 | <hellwolf> | firefox |
| 14:42:49 | <tomsmeding> | me too |
| 14:43:43 | <tomsmeding> | I'm attaching an event handler to the mousemove and keydown events, globally on the page |
| 14:43:54 | <tomsmeding> | it would be very weird if those don't fire for you |
| 14:44:05 | <tomsmeding> | any errors in the javascript console? |
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| 14:45:55 | <hellwolf> | no, I can't reproduce anymore |
| 14:46:00 | <hellwolf> | with a new tab |
| 14:46:08 | <tomsmeding> | the button disappears now for you? |
| 14:46:15 | <hellwolf> | in the new tab. yes. |
| 14:46:19 | <tomsmeding> | O.o |
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| 14:50:38 | <EvanR> | tomsmeding, well that translation I gave is in the docs let !x = e in body ==> let x = e in x `seq` body. You're saying let !K = e in body is somehow different from let K = e in K `seq` body? |
| 14:50:52 | <EvanR> | or maybe it was only talking about variable bindings |
| 14:51:04 | <EvanR> | lol what does `x' quantify over |
| 14:51:08 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: no, I was complaining about your claim that the seq doesn't have any effect if x is a constructor pattern |
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| 14:51:25 | <tomsmeding> | it does _here_, but not in a pattern match, because pattern matches are strict and let is lazy |
| 14:51:45 | <EvanR> | let K = ... is a pattern match or a let |
| 14:51:50 | <EvanR> | or both |
| 14:52:01 | <tomsmeding> | a let |
| 14:52:09 | <tomsmeding> | okay "pattern match" is indeed ambiguous wording |
| 14:52:21 | <EvanR> | I have no idea what you're saying xD |
| 14:52:50 | <tomsmeding> | `case x of K -> _` is strict in x |
| 14:52:56 | Digitteknohippie | is now known as Digit |
| 14:53:02 | <tomsmeding> | the function `foo K = _` is strict in its argument |
| 14:53:25 | <tomsmeding> | `let K = expr in _` is _not_ strict in `expr` |
| 14:53:54 | <tomsmeding> | I used "pattern match" to refer to the first two, but that's ambiguous, I concede |
| 14:54:12 | × | gmg quits (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 14:54:15 | <tomsmeding> | `let !K = expr in _` is, however, strict in `expr` |
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| 14:54:48 | × | mari-estel quits (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:56:21 | <EvanR> | alright I think my substitution failed |
| 14:56:57 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: https://github.com/haskell/play-haskell/commit/5630aaa0da9fb7ffaecf43fc526a8ff5024b5d84 the undo problem should be fixed now, in case you manage to be super fast anyway or if the button remains for whatever reason |
| 14:57:04 | <EvanR> | let !K = e in body isn't an instance of the rule let !x = e in body, when you translate them you get different behaving results |
| 14:57:28 | <EvanR> | x is supposed to range over variables, not any pattern xD |
| 14:57:33 | <EvanR> | metavariable |
| 14:57:46 | <hellwolf> | tomsmeding: great! |
| 14:58:22 | <tomsmeding> | I don't know why ace.js thought it was a good idea to explicitly clear undo history when setting the contents of an edit session to a new srting |
| 15:01:04 | → | ubert joins (~Thunderbi@2a02:8109:ab8a:5a00:74f1:1caf:2629:a3c8) |
| 15:01:25 | <hellwolf> | frontend is voodoo to me... sounds like you can use some monad |
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| 15:04:41 | <EvanR> | some kinda monad or smth |
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| 15:23:25 | <EvanR> | so let !(x,y) = e in body is substantially different from let (x,y) = e in body, because e gets evaluated earlier. Right? |
| 15:23:45 | <EvanR> | but in case alternatives it has no effect |
| 15:24:15 | <tomsmeding> | in `let (x,y) = e in body`, e might not get evaluated at all if x and y are unused |
| 15:24:37 | <tomsmeding> | indeed, `case _ of !(x,y) -> _` is equivalent to `case _ of (x,y) -> _` |
| 15:25:09 | × | werneta quits (~werneta@syn-071-083-160-242.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 15:25:53 | <merijn> | I'm not sure you can ever observe the difference between those two, EvanR |
| 15:26:09 | <EvanR> | ???? |
| 15:26:33 | <EvanR> | > let !(x,y) = undefined in "ok" |
| 15:26:35 | <lambdabot> | "*Exception: Prelude.undefined |
| 15:26:40 | <EvanR> | > let (x,y) = undefined in "ok" |
| 15:26:42 | <lambdabot> | "ok" |
| 15:26:52 | <merijn> | As in, if you don't use either x or y is there a chance it gets optimised away |
| 15:26:55 | <merijn> | I'm not sure |
| 15:27:05 | <tomsmeding> | merijn: uh, bang patterns have semantics :p |
| 15:27:12 | <tomsmeding> | it's not optimiser vagaries |
| 15:27:46 | <EvanR> | unfortunately, the rule I just posted doesn't apply to this specific let, you need one of the other semantic rules... and there's a lot apparently for bang patterns |
| 15:27:47 | <merijn> | tomsmeding: I meant that if the entire binding is unused does GHC keep it just for forcing the evaluation? |
| 15:27:53 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 15:28:03 | <tomsmeding> | otherwise what would the bang pattern even mean |
| 15:28:08 | <merijn> | I need to rereads the documentation on bangpatterns |
| 15:28:40 | <EvanR> | crashing or freezing due to bottom might be an intended observable effect |
| 15:28:47 | <EvanR> | i.e. using lub |
| 15:28:51 | <tomsmeding> | precisely |
| 15:30:08 | <tomsmeding> | ah, the GHC docs for BangPatterns point out that `let !x` is not the same as `let (!x)` |
| 15:30:17 | <EvanR> | o_O |
| 15:30:29 | <int-e> | > let a = let !(x,y) = a in (0,x) in a |
| 15:30:30 | <tomsmeding> | or wait |
| 15:30:32 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: <<loop>> |
| 15:30:36 | <int-e> | > let a = let (x,y) = a in (0,x) in a |
| 15:30:38 | <lambdabot> | (0,0) |
| 15:31:00 | <int-e> | > let a = let (!(x,y)) = a in (0,x) in a |
| 15:31:02 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: <<loop>> |
| 15:31:12 | <tomsmeding> | ah no, there is a semantical difference between a top-level bang pattern in a let binding, and a bang somewhere nested |
| 15:31:16 | <EvanR> | that would be an interesting thing to optimize out |
| 15:31:26 | <tomsmeding> | but "top-level" may be under parentheses |
| 15:31:34 | <int-e> | but (!x) is still top-level, |
| 15:31:34 | <tomsmeding> | I'm half-sure this changed at some point |
| 15:31:42 | <int-e> | as you said (failed to delete) |
| 15:31:56 | <EvanR> | the one I was reading said strict bindings are not allowed at top level but I guess that's old now? |
| 15:32:11 | <tomsmeding> | what are you reading? |
| 15:32:21 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:29bc:7fae:9d9f:d545) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 15:32:53 | <EvanR> | >Strict bindings are not allowed at the top level of a module. |
| 15:33:00 | <EvanR> | https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/strict.html |
| 15:33:01 | <tomsmeding> | ah, that's top-level in a module |
| 15:33:05 | <int-e> | @let !x = () |
| 15:33:05 | <tomsmeding> | I mean top-level in a pattern |
| 15:33:06 | <lambdabot> | /sandbox/tmp/.L.hs:168:1: error: |
| 15:33:06 | <lambdabot> | Top-level strict bindings aren't allowed: !L.x = () |
| 15:33:06 | <lambdabot> | | |
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| 15:33:20 | <EvanR> | what's top level in a pattern |
| 15:33:24 | × | rvalue quits (~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 15:33:24 | <tomsmeding> | where `let !(x,y)` would be a "top-level" bang pattern, and `let (!x,y)` would not be |
| 15:33:44 | → | Googulator18 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-211a-ac5d-24c1-ad5e-7f2b.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 15:33:49 | <EvanR> | so wtf is let (!x) = ... |
| 15:33:55 | → | rvalue joins (~rvalue@user/rvalue) |
| 15:34:00 | <tomsmeding> | ambiguous |
| 15:34:00 | <int-e> | EvanR: it's equivalent to let !x = ... |
| 15:34:04 | <EvanR> | lol |
| 15:34:06 | <tomsmeding> | yes, that's how ghc interprets it |
| 15:34:15 | <EvanR> | ok so we're not lisp yet |
| 15:34:15 | <int-e> | (empirically) |
| 15:34:39 | <tomsmeding> | > let (x,!y) = ("x", undefined) in "hi " ++ x |
| 15:34:41 | <lambdabot> | "hi *Exception: Prelude.undefined |
| 15:34:45 | <tomsmeding> | > let (x,!y) = ("x", undefined) in "hi" |
| 15:34:47 | <lambdabot> | "hi" |
| 15:34:51 | <int-e> | but for a newtype T, !(T x) and T (!x) should be different |
| 15:35:00 | <tomsmeding> | non-top-level bang patterns only have an effect if the pattern as a whole is used |
| 15:35:07 | <tomsmeding> | in a let, that is |
| 15:35:32 | <tomsmeding> | top-level bang patterns have the additional effect of making the whole binding strict |
| 15:35:57 | <tomsmeding> | int-e: should they? |
| 15:36:11 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: yes, and they are different too |
| 15:36:27 | <int-e> | those top-level ! override an implicit outermost ~ |
| 15:36:32 | → | mari-estel joins (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) |
| 15:36:55 | <EvanR> | what implicit outermost ~ |
| 15:37:01 | <tomsmeding> | oh right, exactly because of what I just said |
| 15:37:17 | <EvanR> | or we're just talking about let bindings |
| 15:37:20 | <EvanR> | still |
| 15:37:20 | <int-e> | a non-recursive let x = foo in ... is more or less case foo of ~x -> ... |
| 15:37:47 | <tomsmeding> | if T is a newtype then `case _ of T (!x) -> _` is the same as `case _ of !(T x) -> _` is the same as `case _ of T x -> _` because there is no distinct `T _|_` thunk |
| 15:37:48 | <EvanR> | how is that different from case foo of x -> |
| 15:38:05 | <tomsmeding> | with let bindings, an outermost ! specifically has additional semantics of making the binding strict instead of lazy |
| 15:38:08 | <EvanR> | because foo is evaluated |
| 15:38:10 | <int-e> | EvanR: ah my `x` is a placeholder for a pattern |
| 15:38:11 | <int-e> | sorry |
| 15:38:14 | <EvanR> | lol |
| 15:38:26 | <EvanR> | earlier x was a placeholder for any variable |
| 15:38:27 | <tomsmeding> | > let Identity x = undefined in () |
| 15:38:29 | <lambdabot> | () |
| 15:38:30 | <EvanR> | now it's any pattern |
| 15:38:33 | <tomsmeding> | > let !(Identity x) = undefined in () |
| 15:38:34 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: Prelude.undefined |
| 15:38:38 | <tomsmeding> | > let Identity !x = undefined in () |
| 15:38:40 | <lambdabot> | () |
| 15:38:46 | <tomsmeding> | > let Identity (!x) = undefined in () |
| 15:38:47 | <lambdabot> | () |
| 15:39:04 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: right, but for `let` they behave differently: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/sQ0J5fNj |
| 15:39:12 | <tomsmeding> | (see above) |
| 15:39:47 | <tomsmeding> | the behaviour _is_ consistent with the docs, but it's a bit subtle |
| 15:39:54 | → | CiaoSen joins (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) |
| 15:40:07 | <int-e> | because T (!(x,y)) is treated like to ~(T (!(x,y))) |
| 15:40:15 | <tomsmeding> | I guess |
| 15:40:42 | <tomsmeding> | talking about an implicit ~ means that you're implicitly (!) assuming that patterns are strict by default |
| 15:41:26 | <int-e> | > let !x = undefined in 42 |
| 15:41:27 | <lambdabot> | *Exception: Prelude.undefined |
| 15:41:29 | <tomsmeding> | I guess this particular point cannot be proved nor disproved, though, because the spec is just that they behave the way they do |
| 15:41:54 | <int-e> | EvanR: re: "What is !x" -- it's different from an unadorned x when it's a variable pattern. |
| 15:42:32 | × | fp quits (~Thunderbi@2001:708:150:10::1d80) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 15:43:31 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: Yes, to me the more fundamental semantics of patterns are the ones that match what `case` does. So ... matching constructors is strict; variable patterns are not. |
| 15:43:48 | <int-e> | `let` tweaks this at the outermost level. |
| 15:44:05 | × | XZDX quits (~xzdx@c-68-55-21-207.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:44:24 | <tomsmeding> | right |
| 15:44:35 | <tomsmeding> | I guess that makes sense |
| 15:45:26 | <hellwolf> | λ [d| f x = let !(x1) =x in x1 |] |
| 15:45:26 | <hellwolf> | [FunD f_0 [Clause [VarP x_1] (NormalB (LetE [ValD (BangP (VarP x1_2)) (NormalB (VarE x_1)) []] (VarE x1_2))) []]] |
| 15:45:40 | <hellwolf> | template haskell would generate the same thing whereever you put the Bang |
| 15:46:02 | <hellwolf> | Does it prove anything? |
| 15:46:02 | <EvanR> | it's template haskell official |
| 15:47:06 | <EvanR> | what is NormalB referring to |
| 15:47:21 | <tomsmeding> | a normal body, without guards |
| 15:47:38 | <tomsmeding> | % :set -XTemplateHaskell |
| 15:47:38 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 15:47:51 | <tomsmeding> | % [| let !x = undefined in () |] |
| 15:47:51 | <yahb2> | LetE [ValD (BangP (VarP x_0)) (NormalB (VarE GHC.Internal.Err.undefined)) []] (ConE GHC.Tuple.()) |
| 15:48:01 | <tomsmeding> | % [| let !x = x in x |] |
| 15:48:01 | <yahb2> | LetE [ValD (BangP (VarP x_1)) (NormalB (VarE x_1)) []] (VarE x_1) |
| 15:48:03 | <tomsmeding> | huh |
| 15:48:22 | <tomsmeding> | lol this is broken in 9.4? |
| 15:48:35 | <tomsmeding> | locally on 9.4.7 I get: |
| 15:48:36 | <int-e> | % [| let x | odd 1 = 42 in x |] |
| 15:48:36 | <yahb2> | LetE [ValD (VarP x_2) (GuardedB [(NormalG (AppE (VarE GHC.Internal.Real.odd) (LitE (IntegerL 1))),LitE (IntegerL 42))]) []] (VarE x_2) |
| 15:48:41 | <tomsmeding> | Prelude> [| let !x = x in x1 |] |
| 15:48:43 | <tomsmeding> | LetE [ValD (VarP x_0) (NormalB (VarE x_0)) []] (UnboundVarE x1) |
| 15:49:23 | <hellwolf> | nice, new way of flooding this channel. |
| 15:49:52 | <int-e> | eh I don't think it's new |
| 15:49:58 | <tomsmeding> | you mean yahb2? |
| 15:50:39 | <hellwolf> | % [| _ |] |
| 15:50:39 | <yahb2> | UnboundVarE _ |
| 15:50:55 | <int-e> | % [| let !x = x in x1 |] |
| 15:50:55 | <yahb2> | LetE [ValD (BangP (VarP x_3)) (NormalB (VarE x_3)) []] (UnboundVarE x1) |
| 15:50:55 | <tomsmeding> | there was a yahb ("yet another haskell bot") before in the freenode era, run by... I think mauke? yahb2 is... yet another one |
| 15:51:10 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: you had different inputs |
| 15:51:18 | → | segfaultfizzbuzz joins (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 15:51:31 | <tomsmeding> | int-e: note that yahb2 here added a BangP, as it should |
| 15:51:43 | <tomsmeding> | if you try that on 9.4, you don't get a BangP |
| 15:51:52 | <tomsmeding> | (yahb2 is on 9.12) |
| 15:52:00 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: Oh. Fascinating. |
| 15:52:29 | <hellwolf> | maybe it is a bot issue? |
| 15:52:40 | <tomsmeding> | no, 9.4 has slightly broken TH parsing, apparently |
| 15:52:47 | → | tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:29bc:7fae:9d9f:d545) |
| 15:53:09 | <tomsmeding> | bug still occurs in 9.6, seems fixed in 9.8 |
| 15:54:32 | × | mari-estel quits (~mari-este@user/mari-estel) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:54:33 | tomsmeding | . o O ( no, the original yahb was run by mni'ip (without the '; wanted to avoid a ping) ) |
| 15:56:01 | × | Smiles quits (uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 15:56:10 | <int-e> | . o O ( worst error message: '<command line>: Package environment "-" (specified in GHC_ENVIRIONMENT) not found' ) |
| 15:56:23 | <tomsmeding> | how did you manage that |
| 15:56:48 | <tomsmeding> | and is that typo in the env var name already in the message, or in your copying of it |
| 15:56:58 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: That's GHC 8.0.2; I'm setting GHC_ENVIRONMENT for later versions. |
| 15:57:46 | <int-e> | The terrible thing is that there's a typo in the environment variable name so you can't copy&paste it into an `unset` command |
| 15:57:46 | <tomsmeding> | (what are you using 8.0 for) |
| 15:57:53 | <tomsmeding> | right |
| 15:58:03 | <tomsmeding> | chef's kiss |
| 15:58:07 | × | CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 15:59:34 | <hellwolf> | I remember SPJ said once that GHC deleted files at some point. Talking about better type system for managing side effects. |
| 16:00:18 | <hellwolf> | https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/kmk6q/the_best_ghc_bug_ever/ |
| 16:00:30 | <tomsmeding> | int-e: the thing about parentheses being relevant was just a brainfart; I think I completely misremembered this: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/22057 |
| 16:01:42 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: I was doing this experiment: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Vbpiah8r |
| 16:01:59 | <tomsmeding> | oh wow |
| 16:02:12 | <tomsmeding> | _wat_ |
| 16:02:20 | <int-e> | So this was broken for a fairly long time. |
| 16:02:21 | <tomsmeding> | it broke again in 9.12? |
| 16:02:58 | <int-e> | evidently? |
| 16:03:15 | <tomsmeding> | I get a BangP both with 9.12.1 and 9.12.2 |
| 16:03:36 | <int-e> | oh that's my bad |
| 16:04:09 | <int-e> | I don't actually have 9.12.2 built, /opt/ghc-9.12.2 is empty |
| 16:04:16 | <tomsmeding> | what did it do :p |
| 16:04:19 | <int-e> | so it fell back on 9.6.6 |
| 16:04:22 | <tomsmeding> | ah |
| 16:04:30 | <int-e> | good catch, thanks |
| 16:04:55 | <hellwolf> | I had a minor bug, I used bang pattern in a TH quote, and GHC complaining that I have unused variable, but I clearly used it. |
| 16:04:55 | <hellwolf> | Considering the number of GHC issues, I don't think I should report and create one more issue there, for now. |
| 16:05:22 | <int-e> | the other versions do exist :) |
| 16:05:25 | <tomsmeding> | what is the case? Is it reasonable for GHC to detect it? |
| 16:05:53 | <tomsmeding> | in general, if there's an issue in GHC, do report it; that's what the issue tracker is for |
| 16:05:57 | <hellwolf> | here: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/JU7QBp5w |
| 16:06:19 | <tomsmeding> | which variable do you get a warning about? |
| 16:06:36 | <hellwolf> | let me find the error message, one sec |
| 16:06:48 | tomsmeding | suspects mx1_ |
| 16:07:08 | <hellwolf> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/wRfhejVB |
| 16:07:17 | <hellwolf> | mxs_ & mxs_' |
| 16:08:04 | <tomsmeding> | this actually sounds extemely related to https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/22057 |
| 16:08:44 | <hellwolf> | I see, indeed. I might as well report one more sample to the same issue. |
| 16:08:56 | <tomsmeding> | the fix for that PR is in 9.6; what GHC version are you using? |
| 16:09:00 | <hellwolf> | 9.10 |
| 16:09:36 | <tomsmeding> | you can indeed reply to the same issue; it's likely that you'll subsequently be instructed to create a new issue instead |
| 16:09:52 | <hellwolf> | right. i didn't realize it was closed and fixed. |
| 16:10:41 | tomsmeding | is afk for a while |
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| 18:46:33 | <monochrom> | Haha "GHCup discontinued" almost scared me. |
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| 18:47:06 | <monochrom> | Actually, s/almost// |
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| 18:59:46 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> yeah that was a good one |
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| 19:04:11 | <monochrom> | and I have just added https://discourse.haskell.org/t/ghcup-discontinued-or-why-you-should-use-nix/11747/4 >:) |
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| 19:12:30 | <EvanR> | it's fine since I can totally install GHC by hand |
| 19:12:36 | <EvanR> | APRIL FOOLS |
| 19:13:10 | <monochrom> | I used to build GHC from source too. |
| 19:13:26 | <monochrom> | (Excuse: GMP version.) |
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| 19:54:11 | <mastarija> | Can someone explain to me the current state of GHC's JavaScript backend? From what I understand, the machinery is there, it's just not enabled by default? |
| 19:54:29 | <mastarija> | Like, we can't crosscompile to JS by default. |
| 19:54:52 | <mastarija> | For that we'd have to build a custom GHC with JS backend enabled. |
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| 19:55:58 | <mastarija> | But, can we build a GHC that can compile to both JS and x86/x64? Or do we have to build a separate version of the compiler for each target platform / architecture? |
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| 19:57:30 | <__monty__> | Isn't GHC multi-target? |
| 19:57:36 | <APic> | lol |
| 19:58:00 | <mastarija> | That's my question __monty__ :) |
| 19:58:38 | <geekosaur> | right now you need a separate ghc for each target. multi-target is a work in progress, and I think hasn't gotten very far yet |
| 19:58:40 | <mastarija> | But apparently not from what I'm reading, at least for the JS / Wasm at the moment. |
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| 19:59:36 | <geekosaur> | (but wasm is pushing it, at least. that said, they're working more on stabilizing wasm support right now, not on making it multi-target-able) |
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| 20:00:17 | <mastarija> | geekosaur, do you know if there's a nix package for JS backend? I haven't seen one, but maybe I'm blind. |
| 20:00:29 | <geekosaur> | I don't really use nix, so no |
| 20:00:40 | <mastarija> | Np. Thanks for the info. |
| 20:00:41 | <geekosaur> | there might be one in haskell.nix |
| 20:04:29 | <davean> | mastarija: nix develop github:input-output-hk/devx#ghc962-js-minimal |
| 20:04:32 | <davean> | etc |
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| 23:53:10 | → | emmanuelux joins (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) |
| 23:53:55 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:58:09 | × | sprotte24 quits (~sprotte24@p200300d16f057c00015ec09f124907ef.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
All times are in UTC on 2025-04-01.