Logs on 2025-04-30 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 05:08:57 | ChanServ | sets mode +v lambdabot |
| 05:09:07 | <Axman6> | @botsnack |
| 05:09:13 | <lambdabot> | :) |
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| 05:18:49 | Digit | starts drinking the haskell kool-aid again, refreshing the mind on the basics, refreshing the heart on the loveable wow features |
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| 05:23:02 | <Axman6> | Gotta stay hydrated |
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| 06:56:31 | <c_wraith> | Are there still active hackage trustees after hvr's retirement? |
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| 07:02:26 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> ??? |
| 07:02:27 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> https://hackage.haskell.org/packages/trustees/ |
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| 11:50:17 | <tomsmeding> | this is cute: https://github.com/effectfully-ou/haskell-challenges/tree/master/h9-traversable-search |
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| 12:20:22 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: but isn't it bad to ask people to break the law ;-) |
| 12:20:36 | <int-e> | (works with just Foldable too btw) |
| 12:21:08 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> also cute, type signature stops the cheap search _ _ = Just 15 |
| 12:22:59 | <tomsmeding> | int-e: which law? |
| 12:23:02 | JuanDaugherty | is now known as ColinRobinson |
| 12:23:13 | <tomsmeding> | and yes, I wasn't sure why Traversable was given |
| 12:23:58 | <int-e> | the associativity Monoid or Monad law |
| 12:24:14 | <tomsmeding> | oh right |
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| 12:26:23 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> does this imply that any traversable is either finite or countably infinite? |
| 12:27:24 | <tomsmeding> | I think you can s/traversable/haskell data structure/? |
| 12:27:33 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: FWIW: (spoiler) https://paste.tomsmeding.com/B09YkvUF |
| 12:29:04 | <tomsmeding> | nice, that's quite a bit faster than mine |
| 12:30:32 | <Leary> | NB: Comment thread with discussion and links to my and Andras Kovacs' solutions: https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1k5n4r5/broad_search_for_any_traversable/ |
| 12:31:19 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: Argh, I messed up while cleaning up the code. there should be an `extract [] = Nothing` case |
| 12:35:55 | <tomsmeding> | int-e: I tried this simple thing, even added some strict data types to make it a little bit faster https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Tema5Itk |
| 12:37:46 | <tomsmeding> | but yes, your (and Leary's, and Andras') solutions are clearly better |
| 12:38:18 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: heh you didn't use the argument swapping trick: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/OMMZF63K |
| 12:38:34 | <tomsmeding> | oh heh |
| 12:38:56 | <tomsmeding> | good for golfing, but not for much else, though :) |
| 12:40:12 | <int-e> | Yeah it doesn't gain anything (heck, the code might even be a tad slower). I just looked at your code and it didn't match my "buitlin" pattern for that function :-) |
| 12:40:24 | <int-e> | Well, technically it gains a tiny bit of laziness. |
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| 12:41:02 | <int-e> | So for the same reason, yeah it'll almost certainly be a tad slower. |
| 12:42:08 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: (re-)using `find` is cute at least. |
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| 13:31:41 | <[exa]> | Foldable is the new LogicT? |
| 13:33:34 | <int-e> | I feel that this is more of "every list function can be defined in terms of foldr" territory. |
| 13:34:19 | <int-e> | But maybe LogicT is why this is asked for Traversable. |
| 13:35:08 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> some say everything is "for_", who is right |
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| 13:41:13 | <int-e> | :t Right |
| 13:41:14 | <lambdabot> | b -> Either a b |
| 13:41:37 | <int-e> | everything is wrong in almost all contexts ;-) |
| 13:44:58 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> everything is foldr with an accumulator and a builder pattern :3 |
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| 13:45:47 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> (and yes, that includes non-primitive recursion) |
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| 13:46:31 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> (make the z default in foldr, ummm, do non-primitive recursion) |
| 13:46:45 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> (or hook it into the f) |
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| 16:57:36 | <jco> | Is pipes (or similar) a good fit for protocol implementations in general? And specifically, for BitTorrent... I'm making a small BT (subset) client (hobby project), and I'm contemplating whether to start translating things to use pipes or not. There'll be a lot of back-and-forth messages being sent over TCP... Sorry for unspecific thinking-out-loud question... |
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| 17:03:59 | <jco> | Another thing is that the BitTorrent protocol has a lot of state-machine style messages, where certain requests are matched with certain responses. This makes me think that pipes maybe is not a great fit, since pipes maybe is more geared towards uniform processing where everything is treated the same...? |
| 17:05:05 | <EvanR> | pipes are parameterized by a monad for effects |
| 17:05:19 | <haskellbridge> | <Jack> You should think of pipes as a streaming/streaming IO library. I’d say it’s a good fit for that’s use case, at least for the “we’re sending you a bunch of data over time” part. |
| 17:05:21 | <EvanR> | but I'm not sure if that's relevant |
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| 17:06:43 | <haskellbridge> | <Jack> You’ll be able to tell it to separate the other stuff into discrete events and then pass those events on to other stuff for the messages. |
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| 17:07:31 | <EvanR> | if you just want to incrementally parse some stream attoparsec exists |
| 17:07:40 | <haskellbridge> | <Jack> Pipes and conduit kinda exist to fill in the hole that lazy IO makes |
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| 17:08:02 | <haskellbridge> | <Jack> Yeah EvanR’s definitely right |
| 17:08:15 | <EvanR> | the attoparsec parser can partially complete, waiting for you to provide more input |
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| 17:11:12 | <haskellbridge> | <Jack> Also that’s a cool project |
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| 17:39:16 | <jco> | Yes... I've used pipes-attoparsec a bit as well. Really nice, and it handles a lot of the ugly boilerplate that I had to write myself without it... Maybe I'll try and go down the pipe rabbit hole a bit for this then... |
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| 19:59:20 | <EvanR> | what's the deal with FFI + c code which uses structs passed by value |
| 20:00:41 | <monochrom> | I don't think Haskell FFI can do that. |
| 20:01:42 | <EvanR> | me neither |
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| 20:01:56 | <EvanR> | why |
| 20:03:08 | <monochrom> | Haskell FFI is something specified a long time ago. Since then no one wants to spend time updating it. |
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| 20:05:08 | <monochrom> | Pass-by-value structs may exist back then but not pervasive enough or deterministic enough to get the committee's attention. |
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| 20:09:44 | <EvanR> | ok so it's a thing you can do but haskell simply doesn't do it |
| 20:10:14 | <EvanR> | it's not a thing that automatically closes off things from calling your code |
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| 20:13:12 | <monochrom> | Here is a question I would need to resolve first. Does the calling convention vary by optimization level? |
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| 20:16:18 | <EvanR> | for externally visible callable things I would hope not |
| 20:16:35 | <EvanR> | link time optimization aside |
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| 20:28:59 | <mauke> | pass-by-value structs were not implemented in the very first C compiler |
| 20:29:14 | <mauke> | I don't remember if they were implemented by the time K&R was published |
| 20:29:59 | <mauke> | they definitely were there when C was standardized in the 1980s, but none of the older APIs use them |
| 20:31:05 | <mauke> | I'm not sure if there's any standard C function that passes structs by value outside of div/ldiv |
| 20:31:57 | <geekosaur> | libdbm used to |
| 20:32:34 | <geekosaur> | dunno how standard you consider it, but gdbm maintained the ancient interface until a few years ago iirc |
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| 20:34:32 | <mauke> | if it's not ISO 9899, not at all :-) |
| 20:35:44 | <geekosaur> | I woul;d say they'd be stupid to have standardized it, but I think they standardized the System III/V hashtable etc. crap… |
| 20:37:48 | <mauke> | hsearch is not standard C, luckily |
| 20:39:18 | <mauke> | I remember hsearch specifically because I actually tried to use it once when I was writing my first interpreter |
| 20:40:35 | <mauke> | but the man page described it wrong, so my code (carefully written against the documentation) didn't work and in the end I had to write my own lookup table from scratch |
| 20:40:43 | <geekosaur> | I think I used it exactly once. I could argue that it drove me to Haskell 🙂 |
| 20:40:57 | <mauke> | hah |
| 20:41:02 | <monochrom> | heheh |
| 20:41:05 | <mauke> | in my case, I rewrote the interpreter in perl :-) |
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| 20:41:40 | <mauke> | but that was too easy |
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All times are in UTC on 2025-04-30.