Logs on 2025-05-01 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 03:51:05 | <sm> | @where+ haskell-map https://joyful.com/Haskell+map |
| 03:51:05 | <lambdabot> | Good to know. |
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| 04:07:18 | <JuanDaugherty> | joyful lookin good; fp-complete otoh seems to have gone all coin all the time |
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| 04:57:43 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> thanks JuanDaugherty. Yes I see a rename to FP Block.. haskell learning content seems still intact |
| 04:58:45 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> for now |
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| 05:08:27 | <JuanDaugherty> | i pity a capitalistici |
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| 05:38:46 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> it seems to echo the cultural values of key FP Complete personnel |
| 05:39:01 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> that said, yes, Crypto is an anarcho-capitalist attack on central banking |
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| 05:40:45 | <mauke> | "crypto" is cryptography, cryptocurrency is a scam |
| 05:41:24 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> technically worse than a scam depending on your politics, fiat is a confidence scheme + legal / state power forcing you to recognize it as legit |
| 05:41:39 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> cryptocurrency + confidence scheme + ??? forcing you to recognize it as legit |
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| 05:41:47 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> erm, cryptocurrency = confidence scheme + |
| 05:43:09 | <mauke> | cryptocurrency is fiat |
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| 06:01:49 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> of the cryptocurrency companies |
| 06:01:58 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> except the transaction time is long |
| 06:02:06 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> i also consider gold a confidence scheme |
| 06:02:21 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> except with "ooh shiny" and corrosion resistence |
| 06:02:25 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> *resistance |
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| 06:05:38 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> is Haskell a scheme? |
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| 06:06:38 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> (off topic heavy... trying to bring the H word back) |
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| 06:25:23 | <haskellbridge> | <Bowuigi> A Scheme as in the standardised lang family? No, it doesn't follow the standard at all |
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| 07:10:40 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> Embarrassingly, I did not know about "Extra-Constraints Wildcard", named wildcats (part of ghc2021!), and Inferred variables syntax {m}... |
| 07:10:42 | <haskellbridge> | The extra constraints wildcard seems super powerful: I hate to list all the conversations sometimes, I wonder if it simplifies my code. |
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| 07:15:39 | <tomsmeding> | hellwolf: what "extra constraints wildcard" are you talking about? I've never heard of such a thing |
| 07:16:25 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/partial_type_signatures.html#extra-constraints-wildcard |
| 07:16:36 | <tomsmeding> | TIL |
| 07:16:50 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> check this out. i was surprised too. i should really RTFM |
| 07:16:52 | <tomsmeding> | _please_ do not use that for public API. :) |
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| 07:17:28 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> :p i thought so too. what's your reason? |
| 07:17:57 | <tomsmeding> | even if haddock infers what the actual constraint list is (don't know if it does), sometimes it's helpful for a reader to look at the source |
| 07:18:12 | <tomsmeding> | stuff like this is _very_ unhelpful when trying to understand what's going on |
| 07:18:52 | <tomsmeding> | I guess s/constraint list/type/, i.e. don't use PartialTypeSignatures in public API |
| 07:18:55 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> Indeed, but i do have internal code that repeats for no good reason (i think) |
| 07:19:07 | <tomsmeding> | an option could be a type synonym |
| 07:19:22 | <tomsmeding> | but depends on how uniform the constraints actually are |
| 07:19:34 | <tomsmeding> | in any case, this is an opinion, so take it as one :p |
| 07:20:27 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> i would use partial type signature inside function where someone i use (:: A a b) for documentation purposes when the mini type tetris game being non-trivial |
| 07:20:53 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> *sometimes |
| 07:21:12 | tomsmeding | is failing to parse that sentence properly |
| 07:21:47 | <tomsmeding> | you're saying that you put a full type signature on the top-level function but use PTSs inside local where- or let-bound functions? |
| 07:21:58 | <tomsmeding> | to fix inference issues? |
| 07:22:11 | <tomsmeding> | if so, that sounds perfectly fine to me |
| 07:22:16 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> let x = f y :: T a _ |
| 07:22:23 | <tomsmeding> | right |
| 07:22:38 | <tomsmeding> | sometimes such things can be replaced with type applications to e.g. `f` here |
| 07:22:45 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> yeah, there are cases where i don't care about the specific type var |
| 07:22:54 | <tomsmeding> | but far from always, and certainly the result is not always easier to read |
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| 07:23:24 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> i use interchangeably, sometimes one style reads better than another |
| 07:23:42 | <tomsmeding> | but I've seen cases where these kinds of situations can be made more readable by putting some well-chosen type variable orderings on a few functions (with explicit `forall`), resulting in the majority of the ambiguous situations being resolvable by a single type application |
| 07:24:06 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> "timtowdi", but in Haskell |
| 07:24:24 | <tomsmeding> | there are way too many ways to do it |
| 07:24:42 | <tomsmeding> | haskell is not a turing tarpit :p |
| 07:24:50 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> yea, i have seen that. it's a mini type tetris game |
| 07:25:03 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> the fun that Haskell gives |
| 07:25:08 | <tomsmeding> | it's great! |
| 07:25:52 | <tomsmeding> | somehow puzzling with all the ways you can do something to find the nicest one in haskell is not too bad, and doing the same in C++ (which is just as much of a kitchen sink) makes you want to tear your hair out |
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| 07:26:39 | <tomsmeding> | perhaps it gets even better in a dependently-typed language; even less arbitrary restrictions |
| 07:26:44 | <tomsmeding> | s/less/fewer/ |
| 07:27:00 | <haskellbridge> | <hellwolf> having the proper type inference foundation helps |
| 07:27:06 | <tomsmeding> | it does |
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| 19:36:20 | <dutchie> | surely there is a better way to write this: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/zzpDyNYM |
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| 19:37:35 | <dutchie> | I can't figure out how to handle threading the Nothing/AppM monad through each other |
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| 19:39:30 | <EvanR> | wibble takes a Bar not a Maybe |
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| 19:40:32 | <mauke> | is there a MaybeT? |
| 19:41:33 | <dutchie> | I guess I should have called it mbaz rather than mfoo |
| 19:42:28 | <dutchie> | it feels like morally i should have a monad instance for AppM (Maybe a) |
| 19:42:40 | <mauke> | yes, that's MaybeT AppM a |
| 19:43:17 | <dutchie> | wibble/wobble come from 3rd party libs though so unless I can just wrap them that's not helpful |
| 19:43:21 | <tomsmeding> | @unmtl MaybeT AppM a |
| 19:43:21 | <lambdabot> | AppM (Maybe a) |
| 19:43:28 | <dutchie> | hm |
| 19:43:50 | <tomsmeding> | :t MaybeT |
| 19:43:51 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 19:43:51 | <lambdabot> | • Data constructor not in scope: MaybeT |
| 19:43:51 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant variable ‘maybe’ (imported from Data.Maybe) |
| 19:44:11 | <tomsmeding> | :t Control.Monad.Trans.Maybe.MaybeT |
| 19:44:11 | <lambdabot> | m (Maybe a) -> Control.Monad.Trans.Maybe.MaybeT m a |
| 19:44:26 | <mauke> | wibble = MaybeT . ThirdParty.wibble |
| 19:44:33 | <tomsmeding> | just applying the MaybeT constructor is usually all wrapping that's required |
| 19:45:02 | <tomsmeding> | (not quite always; there are more utility functions in Control.Monad.Trans.Maybe) |
| 19:46:54 | <dutchie> | right, yeah, I think I can put it together there |
| 19:47:04 | <dutchie> | now the annoying part is the non-monadic Map.lookup, heh |
| 19:47:50 | <tomsmeding> | :t Control.Monad.Trans.Class.lift |
| 19:47:51 | <lambdabot> | (MonadTrans t, Monad m) => m a -> t m a |
| 19:48:44 | <mauke> | that looks like the wrong shape |
| 19:48:56 | <tomsmeding> | oh, you're right |
| 19:49:04 | <mauke> | MaybeT . pure |
| 19:49:35 | <tomsmeding> | (if you want Nothing to be an error) |
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| 19:50:39 | <EvanR> | :t MaybeT . pure |
| 19:50:40 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 19:50:40 | <lambdabot> | • Data constructor not in scope: MaybeT :: f0 a -> c |
| 19:50:40 | <lambdabot> | • Perhaps you meant variable ‘maybe’ (imported from Data.Maybe) |
| 19:50:47 | <EvanR> | lambdabooooooooooooooooot |
| 19:51:06 | <tomsmeding> | @import Control.Monad.Trans.Maybe |
| 19:51:06 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 19:51:09 | <tomsmeding> | @let import Control.Monad.Trans.Maybe |
| 19:51:10 | <lambdabot> | Defined. |
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| 19:52:27 | <EvanR> | :t MaybeT . pure |
| 19:52:28 | <lambdabot> | Applicative m => Maybe a -> MaybeT m a |
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| 19:54:16 | <dutchie> | nice, https://paste.tomsmeding.com/lYtaNeCf typechecks |
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| 20:05:58 | <sim590> | I can pass this option to cabal: --c2hs-options="-C -std=gnu18" and it works well. I can see it because it fixes an issue I'm having with c2hs. But, now I'm trying to add that to my cabal file and I looked it up here: https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/config.html#program-options, so I should be able to do this: https://paste.debian.net/1372741/, but it doesn't work. The flag is not passed. |
| 20:06:00 | <sim590> | What am I doing wrong? |
| 20:06:51 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: see the first Warning |
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| 20:07:01 | <tomsmeding> | (and the second one) |
| 20:07:30 | <sim590> | The first warning? |
| 20:07:55 | <tomsmeding> | on the docs page that you linked, right below the table of programs |
| 20:08:07 | <tomsmeding> | "It is important to not confuse these options with the ones listed in the build info section. ..." |
| 20:08:57 | <tomsmeding> | oh, I don't see c2hs in that list |
| 20:09:13 | <sim590> | It's in the table? |
| 20:09:16 | <sim590> | I see it. |
| 20:09:18 | <int-e> | sim590: that should work in ~/.cabal/config (or whatever the location is), but not in .cabal files, which has a different field name for this |
| 20:09:30 | <sim590> | ahhhh OK |
| 20:09:34 | <int-e> | https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/latest/cabal-package-description-file.html#pkg-field-hsc2hs-options |
| 20:09:38 | <sim590> | I thought it was foor .cabal file. |
| 20:09:49 | <tomsmeding> | int-e: is hsc2hs the same as c2hs? |
| 20:09:58 | <int-e> | uh |
| 20:10:03 | <sim590> | tomsmeding: No, they are different I think. |
| 20:10:05 | <int-e> | it's not |
| 20:10:13 | <tomsmeding> | because I saw that one and skipped it because the question was about c2hs |
| 20:10:28 | <int-e> | hmm maybe .cabal files don't have a setting for this then |
| 20:11:08 | <int-e> | Sorry, I searched for "c2hs" and I forgot that hsc2hs is its own thing. |
| 20:11:26 | <sim590> | int-e: is there an equivalent t the ~/.cabal/config file per project? I want that config to be effective for my repo. |
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| 20:12:13 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: have you tried just putting `c2hs-options: ...` in your .cabal file (not cabal.project)? It's not listed in the docs, but maybe they skipped it |
| 20:13:51 | <sim590> | tomsmeding: yeah and it doesn't wrk. Let me upload what I tried: https://paste.debian.net/1372745/. |
| 20:15:26 | <sim590> | But this `cabal v2-build --c2hs-options="-C -std=gnu18"` works on the command line. |
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| 20:16:04 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: have you tried putting `package opendht-hs\n\tc2hs-options: -C -std=gnu18` in cabal.project? |
| 20:16:21 | <tomsmeding> | (substituting a newline for \n and indentation for \t, naturally) |
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| 20:17:45 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: I see 'program-options' in the cabal documentation, not 'program-default-options'. Have you tried 'program-options' instead? |
| 20:20:25 | <sim590> | so, i just tried `program-options` and it doesn't work. But, your other suggestion with a `cabal.project.local` file and the line `packages .` and then `package opendht-hs` with the config under that section did the trick! |
| 20:21:08 | <tomsmeding> | it's often the case that `cabal build` options correspond to keys under a `package` clause in cabal.project |
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| 20:22:26 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: given the nature of the option that you're passing to c2hs, it feels likely to me that this is not just a workaround for a bug, but actually required for setting the C language standard for parsing whatever C code you're working with |
| 20:22:34 | <tomsmeding> | so I'm not sure putting it in cabal.project.LOCAL is really the best choice |
| 20:22:36 | <int-e> | if this works anywhere locally it'll be in cabal.project and/or cabal.project.local (and if it works in the latter but not in the former that becomes messy because the file tends to be regenerated by `cabal configure` and the like) |
| 20:22:41 | <tomsmeding> | surely other people will need it too! |
| 20:22:43 | <sim590> | OK. I'll remember that! I thought it was sensible to go straight into the .cabal file, but I guess that's not how it's made. |
| 20:22:55 | <tomsmeding> | it was |
| 20:23:09 | <tomsmeding> | I'm not sure why it can't go in the .cabal file, since it sounds like everyone will need this option. :) |
| 20:23:53 | <sim590> | So, the exact issue I'm working with is over here: https://github.com/haskell/c2hs/issues/300#issuecomment-2845352330 |
| 20:24:01 | <int-e> | Well regardless of why, the support in .cabal files is not there. |
| 20:24:46 | <tomsmeding> | _what_ |
| 20:25:23 | <sim590> | I'm not too sure about the consequences of using `.local`? |
| 20:25:40 | <sim590> | It's just something I did for another project and it worked, so I assumed I needed that. |
| 20:25:43 | <tomsmeding> | "enhance diagnostics to clarify type errors ... involving bool" sounds completely unrelated |
| 20:25:43 | <int-e> | sim590: the main downside I see is that the config will be overwritten all the time |
| 20:25:57 | <sim590> | When? |
| 20:26:06 | <int-e> | oh and you don't want to commit it to repos because it contains local paths |
| 20:26:15 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: cabal.project.local is intended to be the configuration on your local machine that you don't commit to version control; cabal.project is the one that you _do_ commit |
| 20:26:20 | <int-e> | AFAIA `cabal configure` puts paths there |
| 20:27:02 | <int-e> | Unless I'm mixing something up? |
| 20:27:10 | <tomsmeding> | (and more broadly, cabal.project is configuration for building this project from the source repository, whereas users who depend on your package via hackage will only see the .cabal file) |
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| 20:27:25 | tomsmeding | never uses `cabal configure` |
| 20:27:36 | <sim590> | The weird thing is that if I use `cabal.project` instead of `cabal.project.local`, I get this `Warning: There are no packages or optional-packages in the project`. |
| 20:27:56 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: yes, that's because if you have a cabal.project, then cabal expects you to have a `packages:` clause in that file |
| 20:28:01 | <tomsmeding> | in your case, it's just `packages: .` |
| 20:28:17 | <sim590> | I have that though . |
| 20:28:33 | <sim590> | So it also says: `Warning: /home/simon/prog/opendht-hs/cabal.project: Unrecognized section` |
| 20:28:38 | <sim590> | `'pacakges' on line 1` |
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| 20:28:44 | <mauke> | pacak |
| 20:28:45 | <tomsmeding> | pacakges != packages |
| 20:28:51 | <sim590> | lol |
| 20:28:53 | <int-e> | lol |
| 20:28:56 | <sim590> | oops |
| 20:29:06 | <tomsmeding> | sometimes the tools are right |
| 20:29:25 | <mauke> | they just just edit-distance the thing |
| 20:29:30 | <mauke> | I mean, it's obvious what you meant |
| 20:29:32 | <sim590> | Alright, I fixed that, but I still get `There is no <pkgname>.cabal package file or cabal.project file.`. |
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| 20:29:50 | <tomsmeding> | that sounds like you're running cabal in the wrong directory? |
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| 20:30:17 | <tomsmeding> | the `.` is a path to a directory, relative to the cabal.project file, where cabal expects to find a .cabal file |
| 20:30:27 | <sim590> | While `I'm not though.. The `opendht-hs.cabal` and the `project.cabal` files are both in the current directory. |
| 20:31:01 | <tomsmeding> | cabal.project, not project.cabal |
| 20:31:18 | <sim590> | `ls .` yields `cabal.project CHANGELOG.md dht.data dht.data_port.txt dhtrunner-commit.msg dist-newstyle docker LICENSE opendht-hs.cabal README.md src todo.txt`. |
| 20:31:22 | <tomsmeding> | oh |
| 20:31:46 | <tomsmeding> | and `cabal build` gives `There is no <pkgname>.cabal package file or cabal.project file.`? |
| 20:31:52 | <sim590> | Yeah |
| 20:31:54 | <tomsmeding> | wat |
| 20:32:08 | <sim590> | And if I just change the name to `cabal.project.local`, then it works.. |
| 20:32:21 | <sim590> | Soo I build with `v2-build`. |
| 20:32:25 | <sim590> | Always |
| 20:32:28 | <tomsmeding> | what is your cabal version? |
| 20:32:35 | <sim590> | 3.0 |
| 20:32:36 | <EvanR> | shouldn't have named your file `cabal.project |
| 20:32:46 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: that is ancient, please upgrade now |
| 20:32:57 | <tomsmeding> | 3.12.1.0 is recommended, 3.14.2.0 is latest |
| 20:33:21 | <sim590> | tomsmeding: sorry. I thought you meant the version of the file. |
| 20:33:29 | <tomsmeding> | ah |
| 20:33:30 | <sim590> | The version of the cabal binary is 3.12.1.0 |
| 20:33:34 | <tomsmeding> | okay good |
| 20:33:41 | <tomsmeding> | post the contents of your cabal.project file? |
| 20:33:54 | <sim590> | https://paste.debian.net/1372746/ |
| 20:34:09 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: missing the `:` after `packages` |
| 20:34:16 | <geekosaur> | no colon on the packages line? |
| 20:34:20 | <tomsmeding> | too slow |
| 20:34:33 | <geekosaur> | as usual |
| 20:34:41 | <sim590> | Damn |
| 20:34:42 | <EvanR> | step up your game |
| 20:34:58 | <sim590> | Aight. It's funny that just renaming it to `cabal.project.local` works though ? |
| 20:35:03 | <tomsmeding> | in general, in cabal.project* files, clauses which directly take arguments have a `:`, and headings which contain further keys with values have no `:` |
| 20:35:25 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: if there's no cabal.project (and a cabal.project.local is not a cabal.project), then the `packages:` line is not required |
| 20:35:38 | <tomsmeding> | what cabal parses your `packages .` line to instead in that case, no clue |
| 20:35:51 | <geekosaur> | btw that error is detected better in 3.14 |
| 20:36:00 | <sim590> | tomsmeding: I see. |
| 20:36:12 | <geekosaur> | it's treated as a stanza which is unused |
| 20:36:21 | <tomsmeding> | but an unknown stanza, surely? |
| 20:36:38 | <tomsmeding> | I'd expect an error on encountering an unknown stanza |
| 20:36:40 | <geekosaur> | yes, which it ignores in older cabal. 3.14 does better |
| 20:37:09 | <tomsmeding> | who decided ignoring unknown stanzas was a good idea :p |
| 20:37:27 | <geekosaur> | (the downside being that now there's an extra place that needs to be updated if new stanzas are added) |
| 20:37:35 | <tomsmeding> | (but thanks to whomever fixed it for 3.14 :) ) |
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| 20:39:03 | <sim590> | Thanks very much to everyone helping debugging this. I hope to get to know these files better in the future. I know the `.cabal` file better, but it seems like when I get on the documentation website, I always assume the options are for `.cabal` files, but I guess now I have to look better to know if they are for other files. |
| 20:39:32 | <geekosaur> | anyway the project file parser is known to be half-assed; the change to check for known stanzas are an interim fix, there's a new parser in development that might make 3.16 |
| 20:39:35 | <tomsmeding> | sim590: in the Cabal user guide, the .cabal file is 'cabal reference' section 1, and the cabal.project file is section 2 ;) |
| 20:39:45 | <tomsmeding> | yay |
| 20:40:01 | <geekosaur> | *is an |
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| 20:44:22 | <sim590> | tomsmeding: aight, I see! :D I'll try to remember that mapping xD |
| 20:44:42 | <tomsmeding> | (there are chapter headings in the left column) |
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| 20:57:03 | <sim590> | tomsmeding: So I think that your suggestion of using a `program-options` section might have worked, if I used it inside `cabal.project` file, but I tried it only inside `opeendht-hs.cabal`. I just saw in the section headings that you were talking about that this option was for `cabal.project`. Just to clear things up about this miunderstanding due to my lack of knowledge of these files. |
| 20:57:20 | <tomsmeding> | ah :) |
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