Logs on 2025-06-01 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 01:00:39 | <monochrom> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/TeA5j0yr is my new tester for the exercise "define data type `NestedListItem a` to have one case for `a` and a recursive case for [NestedListItem a]" using GHC.Generics and type families. |
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| 03:53:28 | <euouae> | I'm using attoparsec and I'm trying to fail using 'scanm' |
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| 03:53:58 | <euouae> | 'scan'. Like this: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/s6ZUJTUb |
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| 03:54:29 | <euouae> | I added that lambda next to >>= in hopes of failing. The `fail "symbol"` part though is failing with a message, not collecting diagnostic information |
| 03:54:41 | <euouae> | I want to fail like the combinators do and then use <?> |
| 03:54:50 | <euouae> | (oh.. hm... maybe I just add <?> there) |
| 03:55:27 | <euouae> | yeah that worked. alright |
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| 04:31:03 | <euouae> | I don't know if this is a honey moon phase I'm going through but Haskell is a lot of fun for parsing stuff |
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| 05:05:55 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> Haskell in particular ? The parser combinator type of parser ? |
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| 05:35:34 | <euouae> | sm: Just in general, I like it. I'm a newcomer to parsing, I wouldn't say I've done a lot. |
| 05:36:30 | <euouae> | Just parsing combinators, no. I've used them before, e.g. with taocpp |
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| 05:48:30 | <euouae> | haskell-mode is so busted |
| 05:48:40 | <EvanR> | after parsing you can check out pretty printing |
| 05:48:49 | <euouae> | you can never figure out what to do, restart lsp, change session target, it's just unclear |
| 05:48:50 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I hadn’t done a lot either. I enjoyed building parsers from small pieces with parsec / megaparsec |
| 05:48:51 | <EvanR> | its pretty complex lol |
| 05:49:06 | <euouae> | multi-repl: True doesn't get recognized, but it does, whatever |
| 05:49:15 | <euouae> | can't have app + lib, it's just random stuff |
| 05:49:39 | <euouae> | right now I'm fighting it to start a repl on the test/ even though I've done this in the past and it worked |
| 05:49:41 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I think any Haskell ide has a hard job |
| 05:50:40 | <euouae> | Apparently you need to first launch the REPL and /then/ use `haskell-session-change-target'. If you kill the REPL and use that command, it does not remember it. |
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| 06:55:36 | <euouae> | EvanR, I will look at pretty printers, thanks |
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| 07:14:11 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> euouae to get work done, I can recommend ghcid and ghci windows |
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| 07:14:33 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> less integrated, but reliable |
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| 07:38:00 | <fraznel> | its a travesty haskell is not used more widely. I'm hammering at a start-up and we went out on a limb and took up haskell for our prototypes then rebuilt them in c++ with a c api for portability. We are still working with the prototypes 2 years in because there's no reason to replace them and they are easy to mess with / change. |
| 07:38:52 | <fraznel> | There's a server running a couple sockets of zmq stuff thats been up for the last year in a half or so and never needed any upkeep. Still sitting there eating a very reasonable amount of ram humming along |
| 07:39:30 | <Rembane> | fraznel: It's fascinating, isn't it? |
| 07:39:38 | <Rembane> | fraznel: How hard is it to find programmers and to onboard them? |
| 07:39:51 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> that's a bit confusing.. did you switch to c++ or stick with haskell ? |
| 07:40:16 | <fraznel> | Rembane, extremeley. I've had so much resistance because of... not sure really. |
| 07:40:52 | <Rembane> | fraznel: Where's the resistance? Who is resisting? |
| 07:41:03 | <fraznel> | we use the c++ with c api in clients but have kept the haskell "prototype" implementation for servers and do continouse R&D with it |
| 07:41:18 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> ok |
| 07:41:49 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> did you originally write the clients in haskell also ? |
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| 07:42:00 | <fraznel> | we have integration test clients using the same haskell code as the servers and do experiments there, the ones that are promising inform the c++ / c priorities |
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| 07:42:26 | <fraznel> | aye, the original clients are haskell too, and integration / load test tooling |
| 07:43:00 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> sorry you had to port them ! Some target platforms were too small / too exotic for haskell ? |
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| 07:45:32 | <fraznel> | We were worried about the overhead of the runtime and mobile was a choice. We integrate with real time simulation on embedded systems, took it as a forgone conclusion that there would be incompatabilities / inflexibilities cross compiling haskell with all the clients. |
| 07:47:04 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> fraznel: interesting. Glad it's working for you |
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| 07:47:53 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> haskell's C FFI is supposed to be pretty good |
| 07:47:58 | <fraznel> | Rembane, a potential early core team flipped tables about us not being viable at scale point at the use of spock for the internal website and tools with some custom written render to static asset stuff to put it behind a cdn. |
| 07:49:02 | <Rembane> | fraznel: Got it. I'm sorry to hear that. |
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| 07:49:23 | <fraznel> | it is but with the ffi you still have to start / stop the runtime and leave memory management to it which is scary a little for real time embedded work. |
| 07:49:47 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> 👀 |
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| 07:49:57 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I see |
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| 07:51:06 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I guess you are hiring non-remote people. Plenty of remote haskellers I thought |
| 07:51:55 | <fraznel> | ehh, both our losses, *i hope*. Or i was worried about the ramifications of it on systems, whether it's well founded worry or not is unknown. I'd like to try cross compiling the haskell at some point and replacing the c version with it / see the differences. I'm the initial coder and didn't want to sandwich too many experiments together |
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| 07:52:43 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> 👍️ |
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| 07:55:24 | <fraznel> | where's a good place to find haskell talent in the wild? |
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| 07:56:22 | <Rembane> | You can put out a job ad and you'll get overrun with applicants. |
| 07:56:41 | <Rembane> | /r/haskell was good in january iirc |
| 07:56:45 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> on the haskell discourse and reddit |
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| 07:58:12 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I mean: on the discourse and reddit, is a good place to put out a job ad |
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| 08:01:31 | <Rembane> | sm: This one? https://discourse.haskell.org/ |
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| 08:01:43 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> yup |
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| 08:02:01 | <Rembane> | Cool |
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| 08:04:53 | <Rembane> | fraznel: Where in the world are you situated? |
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| 08:05:05 | <fraznel> | sweet, was not aware of the discourse. |
| 08:05:32 | <Rembane> | I think I just did an idiom by mistake. Hm... |
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| 08:15:48 | <fraznel> | Out of Seattle but everyone involved at the moment is remote. Reached a milestone last week that should end in a public site / announce of things and trying to get more clients in a month or two. Jumped the gun a little coming in here to share some haskell <3. :P. Just excited from things proving themselves out in some internal dogfooding last week. |
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| 08:16:28 | <euouae> | haskell is cool but doesn't fit all problems |
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| 08:31:45 | <fraznel> | I'm just glad it has a strong community behind it, hope this work leads to a position where I can give back in a more meaningful way. Got lots of help from folks here grokking haskell stuff years ago. Just a general cheers all. :) |
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| 08:32:10 | fraznel | *insert bilbo birthday speech gif* |
| 08:33:06 | <euouae> | congrats! |
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| 08:39:27 | <fraznel> | euouae, thanks! |
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| 08:57:34 | <Rembane> | fraznel: That sounds amazing! :D |
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| 09:07:14 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Wow, the discourse forum is pretty active, I should try using it |
| 09:07:14 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I wonder if there exists a multi-discourse client so that I can browse multiple communities at the same time |
| 09:07:16 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I like the haskell community too. Before reddit died, /r/haskell was the best programming subreddit in my opinion |
| 09:07:18 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Closely followed by /r/cpp, and then a big gap in discussion quality |
| 09:07:18 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> cheers fraznel ! |
| 09:08:04 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> Morj indeed there is: a feed reader, subscribed to all their fees. I use the excellent bazqux (written in Haskell) |
| 09:09:15 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> also I think possibly https://haskell.pl-a.net aggregates a bunch of those feeds into one. |
| 09:10:19 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> yes it does |
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| 09:11:16 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> and by the way reddit's death seems exaggerated, for good or ill. /r/haskell seems plenty active |
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| 10:13:02 | <__monty__> | It's more of an ideological death with how corporate and willing to censor they have shown themselves to be. It's about people not *wanting* to contribute to the value of such an entity, not the communities already having moved. |
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| 10:20:31 | <euouae> | reddit is also impossible to join |
| 10:21:06 | <euouae> | I think you're required to karma farm points in r/cute for a long time until you can actually participate in other communities |
| 10:22:07 | <__monty__> | I've not experienced that at all. But then I never participated in any big subs. |
| 10:22:21 | <euouae> | big subs? you can't post |
| 10:22:43 | <euouae> | try making an account and posting anywhere :P |
| 10:23:35 | <__monty__> | We made a project sub and unfortunately a community formed there so we're trapped through the network effect and I can still post there. |
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| 10:24:36 | <c_wraith> | fwiw, r/haskell is barely "reddit". It may be hosted there, but it isn't a part of the masses |
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| 10:26:21 | <__monty__> | I'm happy to learn about the Discourse, means I can reduce my Reddit use. |
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| 16:03:42 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> sm planetarium looks great, thanks! And reddit is not completely dead, true, but the activity has dramatically decreased after 2023 api change blackouts |
| 16:03:44 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I'm surprised a haskeller could not know about the discourse. We must be doing something wrong.. |
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| 16:07:14 | <[exa]> | the discourse would deserve some promotion tbh, it's great and I found it by a complete fediverse accident like 2 months ago |
| 16:11:45 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I guess we'd need a monthly Haskell news or Haskell resources guide, posted across _all_ fora |
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| 16:13:31 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> or really promote one big news page / feed that includes content from all, like planetarium |
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| 16:57:39 | haskellbridge | sm makes a https://joyful.com/Haskell+minimap |
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| 17:06:06 | <Rembane> | \œ/ |
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| 17:27:29 | <monochrom> | Sorry to say but œ looks like xenomorph head from Alien. |
| 17:27:51 | <monochrom> | On the bright side we are happy that xenomorphs use Haskell too! |
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| 17:51:59 | <Hecate> | I feel offended by that remark, monochrom :P |
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| 17:52:07 | <Hecate> | here, take an æ as well |
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| 17:54:06 | <monochrom> | æ is like that picture that's ambiguously a young lady looking one side or an old woman looking the other side. >:) |
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| 18:46:43 | <Rembane> | monochrom: Isn't it Janus... the two-headed dude? |
| 18:46:58 | <Rembane> | This one! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus |
| 18:47:35 | <monochrom> | That works too :) |
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| 18:50:03 | <Rembane> | :D |
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| 20:19:49 | <jle`> | has anyone tried out the different effects systems in out there? if i wanted to write something about a specific effect in an effects-system-agnostic way, is there a "most agnostic" effects sysyem out there |
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| 20:46:48 | <monochrom> | I think at this point only pseudocode can be agnostic. Pseudocode that assumes algebraic effects has the best chance of surviving translations. |
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| 21:25:15 | <sm> | @where map |
| 21:25:15 | <lambdabot> | http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/HaskellUserLocations |
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| 21:26:17 | <sm> | That page is only of historical interest; I'd like to reclaim this id, if no-one objects |
| 21:27:12 | <sm> | @where+ locations http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/HaskellUserLocations |
| 21:27:13 | <lambdabot> | Okay. |
| 21:27:25 | <sm> | @where+ map https://joyful.com/Haskell+map |
| 21:27:25 | <lambdabot> | Done. |
| 21:27:37 | <sm> | @where+ minimap https://joyful.com/Haskell+minimap |
| 21:27:38 | <lambdabot> | I will remember. |
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| 22:32:39 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> Also, I got desperate and tried to go try Codecanvas.ai for MVP |
| 22:32:57 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> it's not there yet; capability is quite limited right now |
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| 22:33:13 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> (wiki website target, or at least the support staff told me that) |
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