Logs on 2025-06-10 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 05:45:36 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> daily reminder that LLM is terrible: you show them a tetris made with a standard framework, and LLM decides you're 70-80th percentile |
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| 05:57:58 | <hiroki52> | I have opened a channel called Python3. It is in English. |
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| 06:44:57 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
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| 09:21:08 | <Tikosh> | hello. im attempting to learn recursion on haskell so i can make a game |
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| 09:22:07 | <Tikosh> | https://bpa.st/J73A here is my code |
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| 09:24:04 | <kuribas> | Tikosh: you have to fix your indentation. |
| 09:24:39 | <kuribas> | Although I suppose it is legal... |
| 09:24:50 | <Tikosh> | on the whole code? |
| 09:25:07 | <kuribas> | The else looks wrong though... |
| 09:25:14 | <kuribas> | shouldn't it be on the level of "then"? |
| 09:25:20 | <Leary> | That if-then-else ... it frightens me. |
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| 09:25:22 | <Tikosh> | oh! okay |
| 09:25:43 | <kuribas> | I suppose haskells weird indentation rules allow it. |
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| 09:26:23 | <kuribas> | Tikosh: just remove the do in gameTwo, and properly align if then else. Or better, use guards. |
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| 09:27:03 | <Leary> | Or pattern matching. |
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| 09:27:45 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
| 09:29:31 | <kuribas> | gameTwo "" = putStrLn $ questionResponse ""; gameTwo _ = pure () |
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| 09:30:02 | <kuribas> | I'd also pattern match for questionResponse. |
| 09:30:23 | <Leary> | Well, they are. |
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| 09:30:54 | <kuribas> | right, well top-level pattern match. |
| 09:31:07 | <kuribas> | I suppose some people find it too noisy. |
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| 09:32:14 | <Tikosh> | how would one use guards in the gameTwo function? |
| 09:32:14 | <kuribas> | Tikosh: I suppose your question is, how do I run gameOne in a loop? You can do main = do gameOne; main |
| 09:32:24 | <Tikosh> | oh |
| 09:34:19 | <kuribas> | or main = forever gameOne |
| 09:34:27 | <kuribas> | (from Control.Monad) |
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| 09:48:09 | <ski> | imho, `else' should be on the same level as `then'; or else (heh) at the same level as `if', and followed by a `do' (and then following line(s) also indented at the same level, per language extension `NondecreasingIndentation') |
| 09:49:17 | <ski> | Tikosh : looks like `gameTwo' was possibly intended to end the loop, in case the `String' was non-empty ? |
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| 09:50:18 | <Tikosh> | I am a bit of a noob in programming in general. so, i have lots of questions |
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| 09:52:39 | <ski> | the pattern-matching in the definienda (left-hand sides) of the defining equtions is often easier to read and understand, in isolation (especially when no patterns (or guards) in later defining equations overlaps with ones in earlier ones) .. but you do hae to repeat the name (usually a function) being defined, and also other possible parameter patterns, which some might find a bit noisy (brevity vs. |
| 09:52:45 | <ski> | readability/clarity) (especially when there's a lot og other parameters to repeat) |
| 09:53:16 | <ski> | Tikosh : well, feel free to voice them ! it's one large reason for this channel :) |
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| 09:57:06 | <ski> | the `forever' or `main = do ...; main' would be infinite loops, if you want to stop eventually / under some condition, you need maybe something like `main = do ...; if ... then ... else do ...; main' (or, you could use `exitSuccess' (or `exitFailure',`exitWith', in module `System.Exit', to abort the loop, ending the program execution / process) |
| 09:57:13 | <Tikosh> | the problem i have is asking the right questions |
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| 09:57:31 | <ski> | well, you'll get better, if you keep trying at it |
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| 10:00:06 | <ski> | i'd guess that you meant to call `gameTwo' with the result `answer' from `getLine', yes ? |
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| 10:01:44 | <Tikosh> | yes |
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| 10:08:23 | <kuribas> | Tikosh: I'd rename gameOne to "prompt :: IO String", returning the answer. Then in main, do a test on the result to either do nothing, or call questionResponse and recurse. |
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| 10:09:21 | <kuribas> | main = do answer <- prompt; unless (answer == "") (do questionResponse answer; main) |
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| 10:12:03 | <kuribas> | or "if answer == "" then putStrLn "Bye!" else (do putStrLn $ questionResponse answer; main)" |
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| 10:13:20 | <kuribas> | ski: technically you can exit from forever using "exit". |
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| 10:13:38 | <kuribas> | Oh, you wrote that... |
| 10:14:01 | <kuribas> | Or use a continuation monad, but that wouldn't be recommended. |
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| 10:19:55 | <kuribas> | runContT $ forever $ callCC $ \exit -> ContT $ [... ; exit ()] |
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| 10:21:15 | <kuribas> | evalContT |
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| 10:33:57 | <Tikosh> | https://bpa.st/MQSA here is the latest fixes |
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| 10:36:41 | <Tikosh> | now. i have to figure out how to make one answer the question by asking them again |
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| 10:37:51 | <Tikosh> | the game is still incomplete. i want your guys is opinion |
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| 10:38:34 | <Tikosh> | I would program in python. but i somewhat know haskell more than i ever do python |
| 10:39:03 | <Tikosh> | functional programming fascinates me for some reason |
| 10:39:11 | <Tikosh> | even though im a novice at it |
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| 12:00:16 | <perro> | that's how they get you |
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| 12:18:28 | <carbolymer> | Any ideas why, when reexporting whole modules in haddocks like here: https://cardano-api.cardano.intersectmbo.org/cardano-api/src/Cardano.Api.html, when I'm doing `import Cardano.Api.Query hiding (LedgerState (..))` it just inlines the exports of Cardano.Api.Query in haddocks instead of creating a link to the module? |
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| 12:19:16 | <carbolymer> | or: how to turn this into a `module Cardano.Api.Query` link instead of a list of exports? |
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| 12:32:25 | <Leary> | carbolymer: It only does that if you re-export the whole module. |
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| 12:34:56 | <carbolymer> | Right. Maybe I should look into why I have name clashes there in the first place |
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| 13:21:14 | <kqr> | I know you're meant to use Esqueleto together with Persistent Entity definitions, but does the library include functions select columns given by e.g. string, rather than Persistent EntityField accessor? |
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| 15:21:36 | <ski> | kuribas` : failure/exception (e.g. `MaybeT IO') would suffice |
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| 15:24:10 | <kuribas`> | ski: sure, I would never write such code today. |
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| 15:24:22 | <kuribas`> | Either recurse, or use exceptions. |
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| 15:29:57 | <kuribas`> | ah neat, rust has "break" with label. |
| 15:30:10 | <kuribas`> | Or break with value from loop. |
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| 15:36:02 | <ski> | "such code" being breaking with `exitSuccess' ? |
| 15:36:46 | <kuribas`> | ski: I mean writing convoluted code with transformer stacks like continuations. |
| 15:37:02 | <ski> | ah, `ContT' |
| 15:37:28 | <kuribas`> | I only used continuation monad once, it was to apply a bracket function to a list of values. |
| 15:37:43 | <ski> | it has some uses, but using it merely for early exit is overkill, yea (which was why i mentioned `MaybeT') |
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| 16:36:03 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> i know it's probably LLM hallucinations, but is it true that if you actually write haskell code that has even niche use, you're automatically in the top 50% of haskell devs? |
| 16:37:32 | <Clint> | how would anyone evaluate that? |
| 16:37:57 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> by magic 8 ball |
| 16:39:25 | <Clint> | pretty easy to write one of those in haskell |
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| 16:40:52 | <tomsmeding> | Liamzee: if "top 50%" refers to skill in the language, then I don't see how usefulness of the product relates to difficulty of the language used |
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| 16:41:58 | <tomsmeding> | or it's slyly a statement that there are so many novice haskellers that building something remotely useful puts you in the top 50%? |
| 16:42:38 | <tomsmeding> | but however way you interpret it, I don't think it's a productive statement |
| 16:44:54 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> i'm assuming the latter is true, either that, or agreeability bias |
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| 16:51:03 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> tomsmeding: I suspect it's probably just stating the majority of Haskell code it finds online are toy projects and proofs of concept |
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| 16:51:19 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> whereas in JS py etc, they're niche tools |
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| 17:35:29 | <monochrom> | I don't think anyone has data to substantiate any "top x%" assessment. |
| 17:36:05 | <monochrom> | Even for mainstream languages, I am unconvinced that people have data either. |
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| 17:37:09 | <dolio> | Also, I don't think LLMs synthesize things like, "50% of the projects I've seen are toys." |
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| 17:37:46 | <monochrom> | unless you narrow the scope to, e.g., "top x% in this company" or "top x% in this school" where someone actually has seen "only 1% of our employees/students ever heard of C union types" for example. |
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| 17:39:08 | <monochrom> | I for example have data to say that there was one term when only 20% of my class could correctly write BST in-order traversal. :) |
| 17:41:11 | <dolio> | That kind of phrase does sound like it would be the synthesis of lots of blog garbage, though. :þ |
| 17:41:15 | <monochrom> | Even if you say "I see a wider scope than just our employees because my statistic came from interviewing tons of candidates" you are neglecting the selection bias that maybe really strong people don't bother to apply to your company because your company sucks. |
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| 17:42:37 | <monochrom> | or conversely your company is too good so really weak people don't dare to apply. |
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| 19:40:46 | <geekosaur> | right. I think this router's NAT table is too small 😞 |
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| 19:51:41 | <tomsmeding> | geekosaur: as in, it can't handle the number of WAN connections? |
| 19:52:11 | <tomsmeding> | in some way that's hilarious |
| 19:52:37 | <geekosaur> | all the interconnections actually go outside my network because synapse is keyed by hostname |
| 19:53:13 | <geekosaur> | which actually means they go out to my router and back in, but that burns a NET table entry for each of them |
| 19:53:18 | <geekosaur> | *NAT |
| 19:53:21 | <tomsmeding> | right |
| 19:53:35 | <tomsmeding> | are these connections synapse->bridge or bridge->synapse? |
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| 19:54:02 | <geekosaur> | bridge-to-synapse, on top of all the synapse-t-federated-synapse connections |
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| 19:54:31 | <geekosaur> | and then I turned on my TV and styarted streaming, which also uses NAT entries, and the bridge started dropping more often |
| 19:54:37 | <tomsmeding> | heh |
| 19:55:12 | <tomsmeding> | weird idea: put an entry in /etc/hosts of the (virtual?) machine hosting the bridge that maps synapse's host to a local IP? |
| 19:55:23 | <tomsmeding> | s/host/hostname/ |
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| 19:55:50 | <geekosaur> | have one already |
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| 19:58:38 | <geekosaur> | problem is, it only works for connections I make from outside of docker. where I really need it is inside the docker swarm, but that would require me to figure out how to give fixed addresses to everything |
| 19:58:58 | <geekosaur> | so I could make hosts files for each of the containers |
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| 22:19:24 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
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All times are in UTC on 2025-06-10.