Logs on 2025-06-11 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:01:06 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 00:03:30 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 00:44:17 | × | Discordian93 quits (~Discordia@user/Discordian93) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 00:48:40 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 00:56:58 | × | Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
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| 01:05:04 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 01:16:53 | × | haskellbridge quits (~hackager@syn-096-028-224-227.res.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 01:23:17 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
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| 01:25:21 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 01:42:51 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 01:43:04 | × | Smiles quits (uid551636@id-551636.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
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| 01:49:22 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
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| 02:00:17 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 02:03:26 | × | haskellbridge quits (~hackager@syn-096-028-224-227.res.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 02:07:08 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 02:18:23 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 02:18:28 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-60-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 02:43:36 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
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| 02:45:41 | × | haskellbridge quits (~hackager@syn-096-028-224-227.res.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 02:46:05 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 02:47:32 | × | tavare quits (~tavare@user/tavare) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 02:50:27 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 02:51:35 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
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| 02:53:42 | × | gawen quits (~gawen@user/gawen) (Quit: cya) |
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| 02:57:40 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
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| 07:24:11 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:24:36 | × | califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 07:26:04 | → | califax joins (~califax@user/califx) |
| 07:29:13 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 07:29:37 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:29:38 | × | haskellbridge quits (~hackager@syn-096-028-224-227.res.spectrum.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 07:31:01 | × | bryanv quits (~quassel@2603:c028:4503:7500:45b7:933:ab17:bc10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
| 07:35:31 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 07:35:54 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:36:30 | → | haskellbridge joins (~hackager@syn-096-028-224-227.res.spectrum.com) |
| 07:36:30 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
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| 07:37:41 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-60-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 07:38:41 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 07:39:11 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 07:44:49 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:47:48 | → | acidjnk joins (~acidjnk@p200300d6e71c4f39f15c215366d851ea.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:50:16 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 07:50:37 | → | bryanv joins (~quassel@2603:c028:4503:7500:45b7:933:ab17:bc10) |
| 07:50:40 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:53:59 | × | ft quits (~ft@p3e9bc106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 07:54:23 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 07:54:46 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 07:57:50 | × | bryanv quits (~quassel@2603:c028:4503:7500:45b7:933:ab17:bc10) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
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| 07:59:23 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 07:59:47 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:01:41 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@77.242.116.146) |
| 08:02:46 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:03:12 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:04:09 | → | machinedgod joins (~machinedg@d108-173-18-100.abhsia.telus.net) |
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| 08:05:45 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:11:32 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:12:00 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:14:53 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 08:19:44 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:20:29 | → | Everything joins (~Everythin@77.120.244.38) |
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| 08:24:50 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-60-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 08:25:53 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 08:30:24 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 08:36:56 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:41:00 | → | __monty__ joins (~toonn@user/toonn) |
| 08:41:26 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 08:50:42 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:54:53 | → | kuribas joins (~user@2a02:1808:61:56d8:f87b:1010:590e:27ec) |
| 08:57:10 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:57:43 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:00:21 | → | rvalue joins (~rvalue@user/rvalue) |
| 09:01:57 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:02:22 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:03:03 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-60-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 09:03:18 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-60-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 09:03:18 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:03:48 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:04:36 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:6467:8157:f7e9:c425) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 09:08:00 | → | fp1 joins (~Thunderbi@130.233.52.13) |
| 09:09:11 | × | fp1 quits (~Thunderbi@130.233.52.13) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 09:09:17 | → | fp2 joins (~Thunderbi@130.233.52.13) |
| 09:09:40 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:10:05 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:11:33 | fp2 | is now known as fp1 |
| 09:14:37 | × | xff0x quits (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 09:15:18 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:15:44 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:18:04 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:18:30 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:19:42 | → | xff0x joins (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
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| 09:21:21 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:21:45 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:25:38 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:26:08 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:26:48 | → | humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) |
| 09:27:24 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:27:48 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:30:45 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:31:09 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:31:31 | × | econo_ quits (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 09:31:40 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 09:32:54 | <kaol> | Is there some cabal conditional to skip over something if I'm using cabal repl? |
| 09:33:27 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:33:51 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:37:02 | <kaol> | I've read https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/stable/cabal-package-description-file.html#conditional-compilation and https://cabal.readthedocs.io/en/stable/cabal-project-description-file.html#conditionals-and-imports but I don't think any of them would give me a ghci check. |
| 09:38:08 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:38:32 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:42:18 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:42:42 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:42:56 | × | tzh quits (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 09:44:16 | × | hsw quits (~hsw@112-104-12-126.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:44:41 | → | hsw joins (~hsw@112-104-12-126.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 09:45:55 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:46:19 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:50:39 | → | kuribas` joins (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) |
| 09:50:42 | → | haritz joins (~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8) |
| 09:50:42 | × | haritz quits (~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8) (Changing host) |
| 09:50:42 | → | haritz joins (~hrtz@user/haritz) |
| 09:52:24 | × | kuribas quits (~user@2a02:1808:61:56d8:f87b:1010:590e:27ec) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 09:53:27 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:53:53 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:57:55 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:58:19 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 09:58:59 | × | fp1 quits (~Thunderbi@130.233.52.13) (Quit: fp1) |
| 10:00:38 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 10:01:00 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:01:28 | → | fp1 joins (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) |
| 10:02:19 | × | xff0x quits (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 10:05:03 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:05:31 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:08:30 | → | Unicorn_Princess joins (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) |
| 10:11:46 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:12:10 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:16:21 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:16:30 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 10:16:51 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:17:58 | → | notzmv- joins (~umar@user/notzmv) |
| 10:19:51 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:20:21 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:24:16 | × | rvalue quits (~rvalue@user/rvalue) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 10:24:27 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:24:51 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:29:25 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:29:39 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@77.242.116.146) |
| 10:29:48 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:31:56 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:32:25 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:35:57 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:36:22 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 10:36:23 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:41:27 | → | rvalue joins (~rvalue@user/rvalue) |
| 10:41:39 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:41:56 | → | prdak joins (~Thunderbi@user/prdak) |
| 10:41:57 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@77.242.116.146) |
| 10:42:01 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 10:44:58 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:47:11 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:47:34 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:50:54 | × | Unicorn_Princess quits (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:51:18 | → | Unicorn_Princess joins (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) |
| 10:52:19 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:52:41 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:55:30 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 10:55:54 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:56:24 | × | Unicorn_Princess quits (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 10:59:38 | → | xff0x joins (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:fa7c:45b9:de45:b3d6) |
| 10:59:43 | → | Unicorn_Princess joins (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) |
| 11:01:38 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 11:02:04 | → | sabathan2 joins (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:02:05 | → | jespada joins (~jespada@r190-135-74-255.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 11:06:06 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 11:07:53 | × | sabathan2 quits (~sabathan@amarseille-159-1-12-107.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 11:21:02 | <kuribas`> | An advantage of lazyness that isn't often talked about is how it allows you to avoid contention, because updating an MVar is almost immediate. |
| 11:21:09 | <kuribas`> | You just replace the thunk. |
| 11:21:35 | <kuribas`> | And you can force the thunk after releasing, to avoid a space leak. |
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| 11:22:12 | <kuribas`> | Also, because of immutable, shared structures, the resulting state is consistent inside this thread. |
| 11:23:50 | <kuribas`> | lazy functional programming is lockfree by design. |
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| 11:30:21 | <tomsmeding> | kuribas`: if you're using an MVar like that, why not an IORef with atomicModifyIORef'? |
| 11:31:05 | <kuribas`> | tomsmeding: because a race condition could throw away the change? |
| 11:31:08 | <tomsmeding> | oh perhaps the ' |
| 11:31:14 | <tomsmeding> | *without the ' |
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| 11:31:45 | <tomsmeding> | kuribas`: well, you do have to check that what's currently in the IORef is what you expect to be there |
| 11:31:54 | <tomsmeding> | but that holds just as well for an MVar |
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| 11:32:20 | <tomsmeding> | the advantage of an MVar over an IORef is that you can "lock" it for longer periods of time |
| 11:32:29 | <kuribas`> | tomsmeding: right, the update function may not be fully lazy. |
| 11:32:54 | <tomsmeding> | so if you want the update function to be as fast as possible, I don't see what the advantage of an MVar over an IORef is |
| 11:33:02 | <kuribas`> | true |
| 11:34:10 | <tomsmeding> | the concurrency properties _are_ different, though: under contention, an MVar implements FIFO queueing and thus provides full fairness, whereas atomicModifyIORef uses a compare-and-swap and is thus 1. potentially unfair, and 2. may loop multiple times |
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| 11:34:46 | <tomsmeding> | but the faster the update function, the more likely it is that the CAS implementation is in fact the most appropriate one |
| 11:35:59 | <tomsmeding> | kuribas`: checking the docs, atomicModifyIORef' already applies exactly what you describe: it CAS'es the value into the IORef, and _then_ forces it |
| 11:36:48 | <tomsmeding> | so yes, you're right, and the GHC concurrency wizards already realised this :) |
| 11:36:57 | <kuribas`> | tomsmeding: but you may want a deep force. |
| 11:37:08 | <kuribas`> | to avoid space leaks. |
| 11:37:17 | <tomsmeding> | kuribas`: then you can install `force x` instead of `x` |
| 11:37:30 | <tomsmeding> | evaluating `force x` to WHNF does a deep force. :) |
| 11:37:59 | <kuribas`> | whnf is not a deep force? |
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| 11:38:08 | <tomsmeding> | > seq (undefined, undefined) () |
| 11:38:10 | <lambdabot> | () |
| 11:38:26 | <kuribas`> | You need deepseq |
| 11:38:28 | <tomsmeding> | "WHNF" stands for "weak-head normal form", i.e. _not_ deep, only the top-most constructor |
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| 11:38:39 | <tomsmeding> | yes, and the 'force' I intended was Control.DeepSeq.force |
| 11:38:48 | <kuribas`> | ah, I see. |
| 11:39:00 | <tomsmeding> | (there is no 'force' in 'base') |
| 11:39:45 | <tomsmeding> | so installing `force x` in the IORef using atomicModifyIORef' works because writing `force x` by itself doesn't force `x` -- it's the evaluation of `force x` to WHNF that forces `x` |
| 11:39:57 | <tomsmeding> | so the deepseq will happen after the CAS is complete, as intended |
| 11:40:14 | <kuribas`> | tomsmeding: but instead of doing conditional update, you could simply replace the value with itself if you don't want to update the global state? |
| 11:40:51 | <tomsmeding> | what do you mean? Having the update function check if it wants to change something, and potentially just returning the old value if not? |
| 11:40:57 | <kuribas`> | yeah |
| 11:41:13 | <tomsmeding> | sure |
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| 11:41:46 | <tomsmeding> | you'll need to do that if the thing you want to update the IORef with takes IO to compute |
| 11:41:53 | <tomsmeding> | since you can't do IO in the update function |
| 11:42:02 | <tomsmeding> | you _can_ in a modifyMVar' update function |
| 11:42:04 | <kuribas`> | fair |
| 11:42:19 | <tomsmeding> | because modifyMVar takes a lock :) |
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| 13:34:38 | <kuribas`> | tomsmeding: I suppose you could use lazy IO and force it after, if you don't mind the IO from being interleaved with other IO. |
| 13:35:37 | <kuribas`> | tomsmeding: if you know that forcing the result will force the IO. |
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| 13:41:20 | <kuribas`> | But then, it is probably better to actually use an MVar. |
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| 13:50:28 | <dminuoso> | 11:37:59 kuribas` │ whnf is not a deep force? |
| 13:50:38 | <tomsmeding> | kuribas`: I guess that's indeed also a possibility, and it could be the right one in some cases, but it sounds risky :p |
| 13:51:02 | <dminuoso> | In fact, not implicitly being deep forcable could be seen as an imprecise definition of WHNF. |
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| 13:56:40 | <EvanR> | force is powerful it is, powerful too perhaps |
| 13:58:08 | <dminuoso> | Heh, I actually had this thought how annoying and complicated strictness can be in Haskell, and how strict language can be simpler.. |
| 13:58:18 | <humasect> | ocaml feels like a nice middle-way |
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| 14:02:49 | <__monty__> | How is it in the middle? It's entirely strict, no? |
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| 14:49:55 | <dminuoso> | Only the ends are lazy. |
| 14:50:11 | <dminuoso> | Which is kind of a bummer when you fling ocaml around. |
| 14:50:33 | <dminuoso> | It should come with a hazard label |
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| 15:04:55 | <hseg> | Is GHC smart enough to rewrite map sum . inits as scanl' (+) 0 ? Also, why isn't there a scanl1' ? |
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| 15:08:06 | <c_wraith> | weird. scanl' doesn't need to exist. |
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| 15:08:48 | <c_wraith> | like, foldl' needs to exist, because you can't do what it does with regular foldl |
| 15:09:39 | <c_wraith> | but the result from scanl can be consumed such that it does the same thing as scanl' |
| 15:10:13 | <hseg> | by passing it to map forceValue? |
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| 15:11:14 | <c_wraith> | You generally wouldn't want to make an extra pass over the list. I guess it exists specifically for that reason - so you don't need to make the consumer aware of what's going on. |
| 15:11:36 | <hseg> | right |
| 15:11:44 | <hseg> | (btw, this is the snippet I'm working on https://0x0.st/8EQx.txt) |
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| 15:12:18 | <hseg> | (just discovered the parser I was dealing with was misparsing ((a),(b)) |
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| 15:12:52 | <hseg> | ... actually, I could just compute the splitting point, and just splitAt pt |
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| 15:14:12 | <kuribas`> | hseg: probably not |
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| 15:14:52 | <hseg> | kuribas`: in re map sum . inits -> scanl' (+) 0 ? |
| 15:14:56 | <hseg> | I figures |
| 15:14:59 | <hseg> | *figured |
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| 15:28:13 | <kuribas`> | yeah |
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| 16:08:33 | <dminuoso> | Also, GHC rewriting depends on hand-written rules. There isn't much smartness about it. :( |
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All times are in UTC on 2025-06-11.