Logs on 2025-07-17 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 05:11:19 | Axma55379 | is now known as Axman6 |
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| 08:07:04 | <haskellman> | Hello everyone, what is the best way to generate complex datastructures randomly s.t. I can compose them and whatever ? |
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| 08:08:47 | <tomsmeding> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/hedgehog-1.5/docs/Hedgehog-Gen.html ; https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/QuickCheck-2.16.0.0/docs/Test-QuickCheck.html |
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| 12:52:49 | <mreh> | is there a way to use a type constructor with an existential type in a smart constructor? |
| 12:53:10 | <merijn> | mreh: Not quite sure what you mean? |
| 12:53:13 | <mreh> | toVertexArray b@(BufferReadOnly _ l _) = VertexArray b l 0 |
| 12:53:14 | <mreh> | toVertexArray b@(BufferWritable _ _ _ l _ _ _ _) = VertexArray b l 0 |
| 12:53:35 | <mreh> | the b in `VertexArray` is an existential (forall b.) |
| 12:54:08 | <mreh> | well, it's actually forall r. Buffer r a |
| 12:54:40 | <mreh> | and the type of toVertexArray :: Buffer r a -> VertexArray a |
| 12:55:00 | <mreh> | but GHC isn't allowing me to do this |
| 12:56:12 | <mreh> | "Could not deduce r ~ 'ReadOnly..." |
| 12:56:25 | <merijn> | Can you make a paste with the relevant types/constructors? |
| 12:56:30 | <mreh> | sure |
| 12:56:50 | <mreh> | @paste |
| 12:56:50 | <lambdabot> | A pastebin: https://paste.debian.net/ |
| 12:58:09 | <mreh> | merijn: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/7246d262/ |
| 12:58:59 | <merijn> | mreh: At first glance that's not existential, it's Rank2 |
| 12:59:15 | <merijn> | mreh: that is, you're explicitly declaring the buffer to be polymorphic in `r` |
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| 12:59:50 | <merijn> | And I'm guessing BufferReadOnly/BufferWritable actually have a specific `r` (you didn't include them) |
| 13:00:03 | <mreh> | merijn: yes |
| 13:00:41 | <mreh> | I'll paste the error message |
| 13:01:10 | <merijn> | mreh: If you want an existential the forall r should be in front of VertexArray |
| 13:01:35 | <merijn> | data VertexArray a = forall r . VertexArray { ... } |
| 13:01:54 | <mreh> | merijn: aha |
| 13:02:23 | <mreh> | brainfart |
| 13:02:25 | <merijn> | mreh: Your current definition is declaring `vertexArrayBuffer` as a Rank2 type |
| 13:04:37 | <mreh> | merijn: thanks |
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| 13:32:35 | <ski> | mreh : i'm guessing `Buffer r a' is a GADT, having `r' as index |
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| 13:34:27 | <ski> | "declaring `vertexArrayBuffer` as a Rank2 type" -- no, declaring `VertexArray' as being rank-2 (a `PolymorhicComponents' `data' constructor). `vertexArrayBuffer' itself is merely a polymorphic (so rank-1) field of that constructor |
| 13:35:36 | <ski> | mreh : it's not totally clear to me, but i do suspect that you actually want an existential (field) here, rather than a polymorphic field |
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| 13:37:37 | <ski> | hm .. yea, i think so, because you can't have the data constructor of `Buffer' selected, depend on which `r' is being selected |
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| 13:40:18 | <ski> | doing an existential, should also let the current code of `toVertexArray' through (i was thinking of adapting it, for the polymorphic field case) |
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| 13:46:12 | <ski> | Unicorn_Princess : the latter, generally. because (in the absense of overlapping patterns (or guards)) you can then understand defining equations of the operation separately as true statements about the operation (so you can reason more declaratively, in smaller chunks). some people prefer avoiding repeating (other) parameters, though, as so prefer the `case'-`of' (or `\case' or `\cases'). a third option is |
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| 13:46:18 | <ski> | defining a local function in `where' (or `let'-`in'), and have that deal with the branching, without repeating the other parameters. that requires inventing a new name for that function, though |
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| 14:23:34 | <mreh> | ski: yes it's a GADT |
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| 14:30:38 | <ski> | mreh : you got it working, with switching to using an existential field ? |
| 14:33:13 | <mreh> | ski: yeah, I don't need any of the type information at this point, and I can use eliminators and getter functions for the different kinds of buffer |
| 14:34:09 | <mreh> | eliminators are a bit clunky, but it's worth it for the improved ergonomics of using an existential |
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| 14:35:20 | <mreh> | otherwise I guess I'd need a wrapper around the GADT to descriminate between the two kinds of buffer |
| 14:36:35 | <ski> | "eliminators", in which sense ? |
| 14:36:53 | <ski> | like non-recursive folds ? |
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| 14:39:25 | <mreh> | ski: like bufferGetB :: Buffer r a -> (forall r. Buffer r a -> b) -> b |
| 14:39:52 | <mreh> | I think that's what they're called, at least that's what I remember them being called in Thinking with Types |
| 14:40:27 | <ski> | right, what i thought. using CPS, converting into the Church encoding |
| 14:41:29 | ski | would call that operation `withBuffer' |
| 14:42:20 | <mreh> | yeah, that's what I called it actually :) |
| 14:42:21 | <ski> | ah, actually `withVertexArray' (pretty sure you mean `VertexArray a ->', not `Buffer r a ->') |
| 14:42:26 | <mreh> | I was writing it from memory |
| 14:42:46 | <mreh> | yes |
| 14:44:06 | <mreh> | I'm kinda porting gpipe to Vulkan if anyone was wondering what I'm doing |
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| 14:50:47 | <ski> | there's two ways to represent/encode an existential, like `exists q. ({-empty :: -} q,{- enqueue :: -} a -> q -> q,{- dequeue :: -} q -> Maybe (q,a))', in Haskell |
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| 14:52:03 | <ski> | (a) the "existential `data' (constructor)" representation `Queue a', with `data Queue a where MkQ :: (exists q. (q,a -> q -> q,q -> Maybe (q,a))) -> Queue a' refactoring into `data Queue a where MkQ :: forall q. q -> (a -> q -> q) -> (q -> Maybe (q,a)) -> Queue a', which is the same as `data Queue = forall q. MkQ q (a -> q -> q) (q -> Maybe (q,a))' (the `forall' is because the `MkQ' `data' constructor |
| 14:52:09 | <ski> | becomes polymorphic in `q', while `q' is not mentioned in the return type) |
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| 14:53:15 | <ski> | (b) the "Church / CPS encoding" `forall o. ((exists q. (q,a -> q -> q,q -> Maybe (q,a))) -> o) -> o', refactoring into `forall o. (forall q. q -> (a -> q -> q) -> (q -> Maybe (q,a)) -> o) -> o' (again, the `forall q.' is because the callback/continuation needs to be polymorphic, needs to be prepared to handle *any* `q' that might *exist* inside the queue) |
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| 14:54:46 | <ski> | both of these derivations use the logical law that `(exists a. ..a..) -> ...' is equivalent to `forall a. (..a.. -> ...)' (e.g. `length :: (exists a. [a]) -> Int' is a valid way to think about `length'. as long as there *exists* some type `a' such that the input is a list of `a's, `length' will return an `Int') |
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| 14:56:57 | <ski> | the second derivation also using the "CPS"/"Church" equivalence between `...' and `forall o. (... -> o) -> o'. (there is also a (dual) "State (in context)" equivalence between `...' and `exists s. (s,s -> ...)') |
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| 14:59:51 | <ski> | (these two are special cases of `f (...)' being equivalent to `forall o. (... -> o) -> f o' (Yoneda), and `f (...)' being equivalent to `exists s. (f s,s -> ...)' (Coyoneda), when `f' is a (covariant) functor (for contravariant, you flip the (inner) arrow)) |
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| 15:06:18 | <ski> | (for the recursive case, we have (least fixed point, finite depth) `mu r. ..r..' (e.g. `mu r. Maybe (a,r)' corresponding to `List a' where `newtype List a = MkL (Maybe (a,List a))' or `data List a = Nil | Cons a (List a)') being equivalent to `forall r. (..r.. -> r) -> r'; and (greatest fixed point, (potentially) infinite depth) `nu s. ..s..' (e.g. `nu s. Either (a -> s) (b,s)' corresponding to `StreamProc a |
| 15:06:24 | <ski> | b' where `newtype StreamProc a b = MkSP (Either (a -> StreamProc a b) (b,StreamProc a b))' or `data StreamProc a b = Get (a -> StreamProc a b) | Put b (StreamProc a b)')) |
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| 15:06:51 | <ski> | mreh : anyway, your `withVertexArray' converts from the (a) to the (b) representation |
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| 16:28:56 | <mreh> | ski: thanks, I'll read up on this |
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| 17:38:42 | <ski> | mreh : if you have any questions/ponderings, feel free to ask |
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| 18:24:52 | <[exa]> | so I have a convenience patternmatch to process and type-unify many variables at once, basically as [a,b,c,d,e,f] <- traverse someaction [x,y,z,u,v,w]; and ghc is complaining about incomplete patternmatches. Is there any good replacement for this to prevent the warning? (I want to avoid silencing the warnings with config) |
| 18:26:17 | <[exa]> | (oh wait my case is actually in a let-binding, but the issue holds) |
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| 18:41:15 | <c_wraith> | Use a fixed-size type instead of a list |
| 18:43:29 | <c_wraith> | data V6 a = V6 a a a a a a deriving Traversable |
| 18:43:50 | <[exa]> | hm yeah that sounds okay |
| 18:43:58 | <[exa]> | didn't see it |
| 18:44:00 | <[exa]> | thanks |
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| 19:33:54 | <[exa]> | btw anyone here succeeded debianizing a cabal package? (I'm debugging an issue with cabal-debian, for some reason dh can't find the executable it has built) |
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| 21:56:28 | Pixi` | is now known as Pixi |
| 21:56:29 | × | biberu quits (~biberu@user/biberu) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 21:57:44 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 21:58:46 | → | FANTOM_ joins (~fantom@33be818f.skybroadband.com) |
| 22:00:20 | × | jreicher quits (~user@user/jreicher) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:01:14 | → | caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert) |
| 22:05:23 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
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| 22:12:25 | × | dhil quits (~dhil@5.151.29.141) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 22:13:38 | → | Rembane joins (~Rembane@user/Rembane) |
| 22:13:57 | × | CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 22:15:22 | × | __monty__ quits (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 22:16:55 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:17:08 | → | trickard joins (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 22:21:28 | × | ljdarj quits (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 22:28:15 | → | jreicher joins (~user@user/jreicher) |
| 22:30:00 | × | amadaluzia quits (~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.0 - https://znc.in) |
| 22:37:55 | × | sprotte24 quits (~sprotte24@p200300d16f06fb002c26010dc25f1234.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:49:46 | × | kaskal- quits (~kaskal@2a02:8388:15bf:c200:3d7a:b666:bd24:83ab) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 22:54:42 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 22:59:06 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:01:19 | × | acidjnk_new quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e70b66280009eebd73db406f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 23:04:00 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:04:03 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 23:04:14 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 23:07:34 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:08:20 | × | phma quits (~phma@host-67-44-208-39.hnremote.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:09:23 | → | peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) |
| 23:09:37 | → | phma joins (phma@2001:5b0:2144:7958:a188:f90e:a332:9c2d) |
| 23:09:59 | × | GdeVolpiano quits (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 23:12:27 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 23:12:31 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 23:20:53 | × | xff0x quits (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:31f8:e5f1:cf3:b71f) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
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| 23:24:48 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 23:27:46 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 23:30:08 | → | kaskal joins (~kaskal@2a02:8388:15bf:c200:b805:34c5:402d:8eda) |
| 23:33:31 | → | xff0x joins (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:a58c:d6e5:328e:a48b) |
| 23:38:22 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:38:41 | × | ttybitnik quits (~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:43:34 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 23:43:38 | × | takuan quits (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:45:00 | → | internatetional joins (~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:61c8:3ff4:a761:bcde) |
| 23:47:18 | yin_ | is now known as zzz |
| 23:48:08 | × | machinedgod quits (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:50:38 | → | machinedgod joins (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 23:53:43 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:55:09 | → | amadaluzia joins (~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia) |
| 23:55:23 | × | machinedgod quits (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 23:58:18 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 23:59:51 | × | inline quits (~inline@ip-005-146-197-046.um05.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
All times are in UTC on 2025-07-17.