Logs on 2025-07-18 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:05:37 | × | caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 00:05:56 | × | pierrot_ quits (~pi@user/pierrot) (Server closed connection) |
| 00:06:13 | → | pierrot joins (~pi@user/pierrot) |
| 00:09:08 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:10:25 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
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| 00:14:14 | × | m1dnight quits (~m1dnight@78-20-51-206.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 00:15:13 | × | internatetional quits (~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:61c8:3ff4:a761:bcde) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 00:18:07 | → | caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert) |
| 00:19:32 | zzz | is now known as yin |
| 00:24:36 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:27:44 | × | ystael quits (~ystael@user/ystael) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 00:40:10 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:42:38 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:43:16 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:45:19 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 00:52:33 | × | xff0x quits (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:a58c:d6e5:328e:a48b) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 00:55:38 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:57:08 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:58:48 | × | ByronJohnson quits (~bairyn@MAIL.DIGITALKINGDOM.ORG) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 00:58:51 | × | Unicorn_Princess quits (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 01:00:00 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 01:06:09 | → | puke joins (~puke@user/puke) |
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| 01:09:39 | × | Square quits (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 01:11:02 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:15:57 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 01:26:30 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:33:34 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 01:44:33 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:45:02 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 01:48:13 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 01:49:38 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 01:50:43 | → | tavare joins (~tavare@150.129.88.189) |
| 01:50:43 | × | tavare quits (~tavare@150.129.88.189) (Changing host) |
| 01:50:43 | → | tavare joins (~tavare@user/tavare) |
| 01:57:21 | × | haskellbridge quits (~hackager@syn-096-028-224-214.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 01:58:00 | → | haskellbridge joins (~hackager@syn-096-028-224-214.res.spectrum.com) |
| 01:58:00 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
| 01:58:52 | × | tavare quits (~tavare@user/tavare) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 02:04:37 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 02:06:21 | × | vanishingideal quits (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 02:15:19 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:20:18 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 02:22:51 | × | zfnmxt quits (~zfnmxt@user/zfnmxt) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 02:25:27 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 02:25:50 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:30:42 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:34:58 | × | td_ quits (~td@i5387090B.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 02:35:24 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 02:36:48 | → | td_ joins (~td@i5387092F.versanet.de) |
| 02:38:43 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 02:41:29 | × | rvalue quits (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 02:41:56 | → | rvalue joins (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) |
| 02:41:58 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
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| 02:50:41 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 02:54:30 | × | FANTOM_ quits (~fantom@33be818f.skybroadband.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 02:58:14 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 03:01:06 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 03:01:28 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 03:02:58 | → | bitdex joins (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 03:08:24 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 03:09:42 | → | FANTOM joins (~fantom@33be818f.skybroadband.com) |
| 03:19:30 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 03:26:38 | → | ByronJohnson joins (~bairyn@MAIL.DIGITALKINGDOM.ORG) |
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| 03:42:09 | → | aforemny_ joins (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6ce8:ec00:8e85:40b4:db08:8733) |
| 03:44:04 | × | aforemny quits (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cc9:7f00:fef4:96e0:82b6:8409) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
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| 04:04:46 | → | weary-traveler joins (~user@user/user363627) |
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| 04:05:56 | × | adamCS quits (~adamCS@70.19.85.77) (Server closed connection) |
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| 04:10:25 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 04:12:14 | × | ByronJohnson quits (~bairyn@MAIL.DIGITALKINGDOM.ORG) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 04:13:30 | × | orenty7 quits (~orenty7@37.63.19.36) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
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| 04:24:49 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 04:26:24 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 04:32:18 | × | jmcantrell quits (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 04:46:52 | × | chiselfuse quits (~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 04:46:52 | × | ChaiTRex quits (~ChaiTRex@user/chaitrex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 04:46:55 | × | ByronJohnson quits (~bairyn@MAIL.DIGITALKINGDOM.ORG) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 04:49:01 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
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| 04:59:04 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 05:03:53 | × | weary-traveler quits (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 05:08:49 | × | amadaluzia quits (~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.0 - https://znc.in) |
| 05:08:58 | → | Guest82 joins (~Guest82@2405:3800:898:469:d431:27ff:fec6:44e4) |
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| 05:14:29 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 05:17:05 | × | poscat0x04 quits (~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 05:25:05 | × | caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 05:29:43 | × | Guest82 quits (~Guest82@2405:3800:898:469:d431:27ff:fec6:44e4) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 05:29:52 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 05:54:20 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: peterbecich) |
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| 05:54:48 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
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| 05:59:39 | → | tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a9b1:9c68:1be8:4e5d) |
| 06:01:07 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 06:01:38 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 06:04:52 | → | caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert) |
| 06:09:25 | → | internatetional joins (~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:9ba2:a48e:b934:7d97) |
| 06:09:58 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 06:11:47 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 06:13:21 | × | internatetional quits (~nate@2001:448a:20a3:c2e5:9ba2:a48e:b934:7d97) (Client Quit) |
| 06:18:26 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 06:19:24 | × | nschoe quits (~nschoe@2a01:e0a:8e:a190:cf3a:622b:30a0:a383) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
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| 06:20:14 | × | ft quits (~ft@p3e9bc89f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 06:21:17 | → | inline joins (~inline@ip-005-146-196-034.um05.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 06:21:37 | × | vanishingideal quits (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 06:29:48 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 06:30:06 | × | caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 06:34:20 | → | caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert) |
| 06:34:34 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 06:43:03 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 06:55:03 | × | Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 06:57:23 | → | takuan joins (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) |
| 06:57:54 | × | caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 07:00:00 | × | caconym74 quits (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
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| 07:05:53 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 07:06:26 | → | caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert) |
| 07:07:30 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 07:21:02 | × | piele quits (~piele@eiseth.creativeserver.net) (Quit: Ciao!) |
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| 07:25:30 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:a9b1:9c68:1be8:4e5d) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 07:29:02 | → | caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert) |
| 07:30:23 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 07:56:09 | × | qqe quits (~qqq@185.54.21.199) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 08:00:56 | rvalue- | is now known as rvalue |
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| 08:35:22 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
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| 08:39:23 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 12:24:14 | <absence> | Is it possible to give generalisedCompose a type that makes it compile, but doesn't mention MonadReader or MonadIO? https://play.haskell.org/saved/GHcNXU3c |
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| 12:26:53 | <tomsmeding> | absence: you have given a higher-rank type to h3 in its type signature |
| 12:27:08 | <tomsmeding> | GHC essentially never infers higher-rank types, you need to annotate those explicitly |
| 12:27:20 | <tomsmeding> | so _some_ type signature will be required |
| 12:28:35 | <tomsmeding> | and binding constraints to a type variable won't work in this context |
| 12:29:16 | <tomsmeding> | so I think the only option would be to introduce some newtypes wrapping these kinds of function types, e.g. newtype EffFun c m a = EffFun (c => m a -> m a) |
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| 12:50:23 | <absence> | tomsmeding: I think I would need some kind of lambda for constraints: https://play.haskell.org/saved/TtVvWuex |
| 12:51:33 | <absence> | ... or more newtypes. :P |
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| 13:05:08 | <tomsmeding> | absence: your code is kind-incorrect |
| 13:05:16 | <tomsmeding> | you can't bundle up MonadReader () and MonadIO like that |
| 13:14:24 | <absence> | tomsmeding: Right, I'm trying to use a type family to combine them, but I'm running into missing type lambdas for the m parameter... |
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| 13:19:10 | <absence> | tomsmeding: Close, but no cigar: https://play.haskell.org/saved/cUJPJyjV |
| 13:23:02 | <tomsmeding> | absence: scoping issue https://play.haskell.org/saved/v2f6EyFa |
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| 13:31:53 | <absence> | tomsmeding: Ohhh, I'd never have guessed that. Thanks a lot! |
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| 13:37:55 | <tomsmeding> | absence: I'm not 100% sure, but my intuition for this stuff is that "opening" the EffFun constructor makes GHC choose some 'a' and 'm' there and then, and they will only be provided by the EffFun constructor that you create in the function body |
| 13:38:21 | <tomsmeding> | so you first have to bring the appropriate a and m in scope by writing 'EffFun _', and then in the argument you can open up the arguments and instantiate those polymorphic functions to the correct a and m |
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| 13:40:58 | <tomsmeding> | this would be much easier to see if forall-abstraction and instantiation was explicit, but it's implicit in haskell (for very good reasons) |
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| 14:27:08 | <absence> | tomsmeding: It makes sense when you explain it! |
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| 15:18:37 | <absence> | Are there ways to work around the lack of type lambdas in general (not just for constraints), or are problems that require them not representable in Haskell? |
| 15:19:44 | <c_wraith> | It comes up sometimes, and newtypes are basically what we've got. |
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| 15:23:37 | <absence> | c_wraith: Do you have an example of how that typically looks? |
| 15:26:19 | <c_wraith> | newtype Const a b = Const a, or newtype Flip f a b = Flip (f b a) |
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| 15:41:49 | <absence> | c_wraith: I don't understand how I can use that for a lambda. Say you have a type operator ++ with kind [Type] -> [Type] -> [Type], how could you encode something that would look like "prepend x = (x ++)" on the value level? |
| 15:42:54 | <c_wraith> | newtype Prepend x y = Prepend (x ++ y) |
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| 15:43:52 | <c_wraith> | oh [Type]. You'd need to lift it a bit |
| 15:45:19 | <c_wraith> | newtype Prepend x y = Prepend (Proxy (x ++ y)) |
| 15:45:42 | <c_wraith> | It's ugly, and you'd rather not do that |
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| 15:47:32 | <absence> | c_wraith: Ah, the Proxy was the missing piece. I agree that it's not pretty, but are there any options? |
| 15:47:49 | <c_wraith> | Sometimes you can use a type equality constraint |
| 15:49:01 | <c_wraith> | like throw a (z ~ (x ++ y)) into a constraint, and sometimes that's enough to make what you want to do work |
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| 15:50:17 | <c_wraith> | especially when type families are involved, you tend to get a lot of type equality constraints |
| 15:51:26 | <c_wraith> | But that feels more like prolog and less like lambdas |
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| 15:52:38 | <absence> | c_wraith: Thanks, I'll look out for that. By the way, how do I get rid of the Proxy that Prepend returns, when I want to use the resulting [Type]? A type family? |
| 15:53:52 | <c_wraith> | you probably just stick with type families until you get to things that have values naturally anyway. |
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| 15:54:35 | <c_wraith> | I mean, all of this varies depending on lots of tiny details |
| 15:55:02 | <c_wraith> | It's not uncommon to try three or four different things before you find one where you're happy with the usability |
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| 17:51:46 | <__monty__> | Does Shake have support for defining required command line arguments? The only way I can see to do it is with `addOracle`. |
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| 18:17:12 | <[exa]> | __monty__: "required command line arguments" as in passing in some commandline-originating configuration of the build? |
| 18:18:06 | <[exa]> | (if so I assume you want to conditionally rebuild if people run with different commandline?) |
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| 18:32:50 | <__monty__> | Yes, passing a different value for the option should result in a build. But I mean requiring specific options to be passed. |
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| 19:43:55 | <__monty__> | Hmm, the oracle rules don't really seem to fit what I want to achieve. Maybe I just need to check if the flag's present and error/fail if not. |
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| 23:08:26 | <koala_man> | oooooh, I just built a linux x86_64 ghc 9.12.2 targeting linux aarch64 and it was a lot less hacky than it's been for years |
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