Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2025-07-21 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:12:42 × ljdarj quits (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
00:13:05 → sim590 joins (~simon@2001:18c0:a82:2400::9fb)
00:21:21 × rvalue quits (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Remote host closed the connection)
00:34:02 × trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:34:15 → trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
00:40:14 → ljdarj joins (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj)
00:41:36 × falafel quits (~falafel@2a0c:5a87:3104:8f01::f709) (Remote host closed the connection)
00:41:58 × caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:42:09 → todi joins (~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
00:43:56 → peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
00:44:16 → machinedgod joins (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net)
00:51:32 × rhz quits (~rhz@190.5.35.164) (Quit: Client closed)
00:52:48 → rhz joins (~rhz@190.5.35.164)
00:56:22 → caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert)
01:06:05 × rhz quits (~rhz@190.5.35.164) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
01:16:50 → rvalue joins (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue)
01:30:06 → ftzm9 joins (~ftzm@085080231172.dynamic.telenor.dk)
01:31:47 × takuan quits (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
01:31:51 × weary-traveler quits (~user@user/user363627) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
01:31:59 × ftzm quits (~ftzm@085080236095.dynamic.telenor.dk) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
01:31:59 ftzm9 is now known as ftzm
01:33:54 × bcksl quits (~bcksl@user/bcksl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
01:34:09 × end quits (~end@user/end/x-0094621) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
01:35:04 × sus0 quits (zero@user/zeromomentum) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
01:54:38 → bcksl joins (~bcksl@user/bcksl)
01:57:58 × Unicorn_Princess quits (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection)
01:59:44 × caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
02:01:46 → end joins (~end@user/end/x-0094621)
02:09:07 × bramh quits (~bramh@user/bramh) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
02:09:24 → bramh joins (~bramh@user/bramh)
02:15:15 trickard_ is now known as trickard
02:19:32 → caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert)
02:30:34 → amadaluzia joins (~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia)
02:32:33 × td_ quits (~td@i53870910.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
02:33:11 × ljdarj quits (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
02:35:08 → Lycurgus joins (~juan@user/Lycurgus)
02:37:45 × xff0x quits (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:43cc:6096:3f7c:e1ce) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
02:39:03 × peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
02:42:18 × connrs quits (~connrs@user/connrs) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
02:49:11 × Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
02:49:35 → Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
02:55:31 → vanishingideal joins (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal)
03:02:39 × Lycurgus quits (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: irc.renjuan.org (juan@acm.org))
03:10:23 → xff0x joins (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:b4a:f806:ddbd:3003)
03:24:28 × caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:34:19 → weary-traveler joins (~user@user/user363627)
03:38:43 × Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
03:42:07 × Square2 quits (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
03:45:40 → humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net)
03:52:58 → caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert)
03:56:25 → sus0 joins (zero@user/zeromomentum)
03:58:37 → cashew joins (~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net)
04:06:27 × xff0x quits (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:b4a:f806:ddbd:3003) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
04:09:20 → Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
04:10:39 → ljdarj joins (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj)
04:10:51 × ljdarj quits (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Client Quit)
04:19:26 → xff0x joins (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:b4a:f806:ddbd:3003)
04:22:41 → tsuki joins (~tsuki@49.37.43.51)
04:25:02 × cashew quits (~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
04:30:27 → cashew joins (~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net)
04:34:12 × cashew quits (~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
04:34:24 → cashew joins (~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net)
04:48:32 × Leary quits (~Leary@user/Leary/x-0910699) (Remote host closed the connection)
04:51:45 → Leary joins (~Leary@user/Leary/x-0910699)
04:52:27 × cashew quits (~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
04:54:04 → cashew joins (~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net)
04:55:06 × trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
04:55:19 → trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
04:57:57 → michalz joins (~michalz@185.246.207.205)
04:58:33 × mhatta quits (~mhatta@www21123ui.sakura.ne.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
05:03:37 <elenril> cabal does not support separating the build tree from the source?
05:05:38 × tsuki quits (~tsuki@49.37.43.51) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
05:17:29 × cashew quits (~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
05:17:51 → cashew joins (~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net)
05:19:54 × cashew quits (~cashewsta@pool-71-169-14-231.pghkny.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
05:21:02 <geekosaur> eh? the build tree is in `dist-newstyle` by default and can be changed
05:21:41 <elenril> huh, I wonder why does nothing talk about it then
05:21:53 <elenril> the only reference google returned was to an old ghc manual
05:28:43 <geekosaur> I don't think it's specifically referred to as a build tree
05:29:11 <geekosaur> (it is in fact more than just a build tree)
05:31:51 → fp joins (~Thunderbi@2001-14bb-ce-ec18-dea2-5cd-93cc-55e7.rev.dnainternet.fi)
05:34:25 × olivial quits (~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
05:34:40 → olivial joins (~benjaminl@user/benjaminl)
05:41:22 → peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
05:53:02 × bcksl quits (~bcksl@user/bcksl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
05:53:46 × end quits (~end@user/end/x-0094621) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
05:54:08 × sus0 quits (zero@user/zeromomentum) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
05:57:18 × haritz quits (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
05:59:36 → prdak joins (~Thunderbi@user/prdak)
06:01:48 → biberu joins (~biberu@user/biberu)
06:03:49 → connrs joins (~connrs@user/connrs)
06:06:56 → CiaoSen joins (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db)
06:07:26 × prdak quits (~Thunderbi@user/prdak) (Quit: prdak)
06:07:46 → prdak joins (~Thunderbi@user/prdak)
06:07:58 × caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
06:11:37 → caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert)
06:11:55 → bcksl joins (~bcksl@user/bcksl)
06:14:28 × peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
06:16:35 → dhil joins (~dhil@5.151.29.141)
06:16:49 × caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
06:16:56 → end joins (~end@user/end/x-0094621)
06:22:56 trickard_ is now known as trickard
06:23:46 × humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
06:29:38 → caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert)
06:30:16 × Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
06:35:56 × caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
06:39:54 → caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert)
06:42:46 × tzh quits (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz)
06:50:46 × ft quits (~ft@p508db189.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving)
06:52:36 × Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
06:59:16 → ljdarj joins (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj)
07:00:00 × caconym74 quits (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye)
07:00:22 → chele joins (~chele@user/chele)
07:00:39 → caconym74 joins (~caconym@user/caconym)
07:02:36 → sus0 joins (zero@user/zeromomentum)
07:02:52 × fp quits (~Thunderbi@2001-14bb-ce-ec18-dea2-5cd-93cc-55e7.rev.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
07:10:26 × califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
07:12:39 → califax joins (~califax@user/califx)
07:17:05 × caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
07:22:12 × jreicher quits (~user@user/jreicher) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
07:22:48 → caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert)
07:22:56 → jreicher joins (~user@user/jreicher)
07:23:19 × califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
07:25:00 → califax joins (~califax@user/califx)
07:25:10 → peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com)
07:26:43 → acidjnk joins (~acidjnk@p200300d6e70b66275c5612394638f67e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
07:28:15 × califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
07:29:54 → califax joins (~califax@user/califx)
07:32:04 × dhil quits (~dhil@5.151.29.141) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
07:43:05 → lortabac joins (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4)
07:47:26 × caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
07:48:04 → fp joins (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-140-9.open.aalto.fi)
07:48:27 × emmanuelux quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Quit: Leaving)
07:50:17 → caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert)
07:51:24 → sord937 joins (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
07:55:52 × peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
07:59:58 × califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
08:02:23 → merijn joins (~merijn@77.242.116.146)
08:02:40 → califax joins (~califax@user/califx)
08:04:55 × califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
08:04:58 × werneta quits (~werneta@syn-071-083-160-242.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
08:06:08 → califax joins (~califax@user/califx)
08:08:31 × jmcantrell quits (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
08:10:45 × weary-traveler quits (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
08:22:25 × califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
08:26:01 → califax joins (~califax@user/califx)
08:31:01 × califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
08:31:28 × merijn quits (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
08:32:15 → califax joins (~califax@user/califx)
08:34:00 × califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
08:35:23 → merijn joins (~merijn@77.242.116.146)
08:35:35 → califax joins (~califax@user/califx)
08:35:57 × prdak quits (~Thunderbi@user/prdak) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:36:28 × caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
08:39:00 × pabs3 quits (~pabs3@user/pabs3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:39:50 × califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection)
08:41:07 → califax joins (~califax@user/califx)
08:42:00 → pabs3 joins (~pabs3@user/pabs3)
08:42:25 → caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert)
08:48:56 → prdak joins (~Thunderbi@user/prdak)
08:53:34 × prdak quits (~Thunderbi@user/prdak) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
08:54:07 → prdak joins (~Thunderbi@user/prdak)
08:54:10 × merijn quits (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
08:55:24 → merijn joins (~merijn@77.242.116.146)
09:08:06 × chele quits (~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection)
09:22:03 × caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
09:28:45 → tcard__ joins (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:cf17:befc:ff82:5303)
09:31:48 × tcard_ quits (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:1e90:74c3:2754:ce8a) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
09:35:34 × prdak quits (~Thunderbi@user/prdak) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
09:35:55 → caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert)
09:36:32 × vanishingideal quits (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Remote host closed the connection)
09:40:01 × bcksl quits (~bcksl@user/bcksl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
09:40:59 × end quits (~end@user/end/x-0094621) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
09:41:47 × sus0 quits (zero@user/zeromomentum) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
09:43:49 × fp quits (~Thunderbi@wireless-86-50-140-9.open.aalto.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
09:52:25 → Tuplanolla joins (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
09:56:07 → sus0 joins (zero@user/zeromomentum)
10:03:14 × poscat quits (~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection)
10:06:23 → poscat joins (~poscat@user/poscat)
10:11:59 → bcksl joins (~bcksl@user/bcksl)
10:12:28 × merijn quits (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
10:16:39 × CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
10:17:01 → end joins (~end@user/end/x-0094621)
10:20:55 → Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
10:23:18 → fp joins (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5)
10:23:50 → merijn joins (~merijn@77.242.116.146)
10:24:01 × Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:24:30 → Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
10:25:09 → __monty__ joins (~toonn@user/toonn)
10:26:16 → sprotte24 joins (~sprotte24@p200300d16f31a300ed9da74e99aa1092.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
10:26:29 × lortabac quits (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
10:27:30 × Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:28:39 × merijn quits (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
10:34:22 × trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:34:36 → trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
10:34:58 × caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
10:36:16 → caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert)
10:37:26 → merijn joins (~merijn@77.242.116.146)
10:50:38 → prdak joins (~Thunderbi@user/prdak)
10:58:40 → CiaoSen joins (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db)
11:00:18 × merijn quits (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
11:02:59 → merijn joins (~merijn@77.242.116.146)
11:03:58 × machinedgod quits (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
11:08:54 → arandombit joins (~arandombi@37.120.80.229)
11:08:54 × arandombit quits (~arandombi@37.120.80.229) (Changing host)
11:08:54 → arandombit joins (~arandombi@user/arandombit)
11:12:08 → lortabac joins (~lortabac@2a01:e0a:541:b8f0:55ab:e185:7f81:54a4)
11:18:01 → Lord_of_Life_ joins (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
11:18:28 × Lord_of_Life quits (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
11:20:54 Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
11:23:26 → m1dnight_ joins (~m1dnight@185.245.255.97)
11:24:03 × m1dnight quits (~m1dnight@d8D861A17.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
11:24:05 × trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:24:18 → trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
11:26:19 → m1dnight joins (~m1dnight@45.155.43.16)
11:29:27 × m1dnight_ quits (~m1dnight@185.245.255.97) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
11:34:39 × caubert quits (~caubert@user/caubert) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
11:37:25 × acidjnk quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e70b66275c5612394638f67e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
11:47:47 → caubert joins (~caubert@user/caubert)
11:51:51 × Digit quits (~user@user/digit) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:53:22 → Digit joins (~user@user/digit)
11:59:49 × trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:00:02 → trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
12:09:21 → Razn0r joins (~quassel@94.142.208.170)
12:12:01 × prdak quits (~Thunderbi@user/prdak) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
12:15:46 → Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
12:18:54 × Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:20:14 → prdak joins (~Thunderbi@user/prdak)
12:21:24 → chele joins (~chele@user/chele)
12:24:19 × prdak quits (~Thunderbi@user/prdak) (Remote host closed the connection)
12:24:25 × pabs3 quits (~pabs3@user/pabs3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:24:37 → prdak joins (~Thunderbi@user/prdak)
12:32:09 → jespada joins (~jespada@2800:a4:2242:c500:c3f:3826:75da:364f)
12:32:28 → ttybitnik joins (~ttybitnik@user/wolper)
12:34:58 × arandombit quits (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Remote host closed the connection)
12:39:31 × sprotte24 quits (~sprotte24@p200300d16f31a300ed9da74e99aa1092.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving)
12:41:33 → Square3 joins (~Square4@user/square)
12:41:57 → acidjnk joins (~acidjnk@p200300d6e70b66275008fd72822e7c06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
12:45:39 → pabs3 joins (~pabs3@user/pabs3)
12:52:38 × trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:52:52 → trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
12:56:20 × CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
13:01:09 → notzmv joins (~umar@user/notzmv)
13:04:16 × amadaluzia quits (~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.0 - https://znc.in)
13:04:19 × pabs3 quits (~pabs3@user/pabs3) (Quit: Don't rest until all the world is paved in moss and greenery.)
13:04:31 → amadaluzia joins (~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia)
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13:19:55 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> im trying to make a haskell WS <-> UDP proxy and the server side seems to work fine, but my client is getting stuck, it is able to receive one UDP datagram, sends it over the WS connection and then hangs, see https://paste.tomsmeding.com/tFghrTMr
13:20:26 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> it manages to get push the "recvFrom" once, it sends the data over the WS and then once it reaches "recvFrom" again it gets stuck there forever
13:20:39 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> doesnt matterh how much data i send it, no clue why
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13:24:21 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> óh wait
13:24:25 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> its thi fucking mvar, nevermind
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13:26:49 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> lol
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14:08:45 <r-sta> i have a really bad bug
14:08:59 <r-sta> i compile it again and it works
14:09:06 <r-sta> sometimes it does and sometimes it doesnt
14:09:10 <r-sta> its a <<loop>>
14:09:23 <r-sta> i have no idea how this can depend on different recompilations
14:09:24 <r-sta> !"!!!
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14:09:48 <r-sta> there are some parts of the code that use random numbers
14:10:16 <r-sta> but i cant see how using a different random seed could result in it going into a <<loop>> only sometimes
14:10:36 <r-sta> is there something like, how many times it does something that depends on if it detects a loop?
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14:10:57 <r-sta> like, if some of the data results in a longer sequence of computations, and its just thinking its a loop but it isnt?
14:11:16 <mauke> <<loop>> isn't a loop detector
14:11:37 <mauke> it's an exception thrown when a computation depends (directly or indirectly) on itself
14:11:55 <mauke> > let x = x + 1 in x
14:11:57 <lambdabot> *Exception: <<loop>>
14:12:05 <r-sta> this cant be the case
14:12:18 <r-sta> i change nothing between compilations, sometimes it does not give a loop, sometimes it does
14:12:24 <r-sta> it cant be the semantics of the code
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14:12:37 <r-sta> im thinking it might be a case of how many evals
14:12:42 <r-sta> can i turn this off somehow?
14:12:59 <r-sta> :set f-number-of-loop-detection-evals=0
14:13:21 <mauke> it doesn't count things
14:13:36 <r-sta> i cant see how else i could get this nodeterministic behaviour
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14:13:49 <r-sta> unless the compiler is really messed up
14:14:18 <mauke> IIRC the threaded runtime works differently
14:14:28 <mauke> but that might just turn <<loop>> into a hanging thread
14:14:50 <r-sta> ok so how do i have it not break in a crazy way
14:15:00 <r-sta> im getting a sore neck from this
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14:15:23 <r-sta> iv never had such a rediculous bug, its taken me like 20hrs to debug its driving me mad
14:15:41 <r-sta> i have checked the code over and over, there are no forward references
14:15:52 <r-sta> and this non-determinism seems to convince me that its not my code
14:16:04 <r-sta> its something really seriously broken
14:16:38 <r-sta> there is no way i can reproduce it in a smaller code block
14:16:43 <r-sta> i have no idea whats causing it
14:16:50 <__monty__> Have you tried setting the seeds for all the RNGs?
14:17:22 <r-sta> there is one unsafeperformIO that gets a randomRIO into a pure form which i could turn off
14:17:43 <r-sta> i really fail to see how that could result in the loop though, but its the only way it could opperate differently between compilations
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14:18:58 <r-sta> and even if that were the case, how can that result in a <<loop>> *sometimes* !?
14:19:36 <mauke> let x = if coinFlip then x + 1 else 42
14:19:58 <int-e> mauke: good one
14:21:01 <r-sta> ah fair
14:21:20 <r-sta> ok, so with some choice of seed it works and with one choice i found it hits the loop
14:21:27 <r-sta> so at least its reproducable now
14:21:35 <int-e> Yeah wrapping randomRIO in unsafePerformIO sounds like a terrible idea. Because the compiler *will* treat it as a pure function whenever it recognizes that you call it several times with the same arguments.
14:21:36 <r-sta> that should at least help my debugging
14:21:40 <r-sta> *sheesh*
14:21:45 <r-sta> it was driving me *crazy*
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14:22:26 <int-e> mauke's example is better though in that it doesn't even need the compiler to do that
14:22:43 <r-sta> yeah, i can see how it could hit a looping branch on a data dependant way
14:22:45 <r-sta> thanks
14:23:17 <r-sta> are there any fancy ways i can locate the point in the code where the loop is though?
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14:30:33 <r-sta> rrg, it seems to depend on the parametrization
14:30:35 <__monty__> Whenever it's hard to find a minimal reproducer it's usually a safe bet that your code's the issue and not the compiler.
14:30:37 <r-sta> this is totally hopeless
14:30:56 <r-sta> yeah, sure, i didnt realise it was some random number
14:31:17 <r-sta> the codebase is huge, i cant get it to behave deterministically, there must be unsafe random seeds all over the place
14:31:27 <r-sta> im on windows so i dont have an easy way to grep the bug
14:31:47 <r-sta> i just want it to point to where the <<loop>> is
14:31:51 <EvanR> kids this is why we use purely functional programming
14:32:23 <EvanR> instead of expressions whose value is random each time you look at it
14:32:43 <r-sta> yeah, but still, there is not great support for this *runtime* error
14:32:58 <r-sta> i should be able to get my code to be nondeterministic without it ruining my life
14:33:45 <r-sta> it takes like 5 minutes to compile!
14:33:50 <EvanR> if you disregard the most basic assumptions of haskell I don't expect good things to happen
14:33:57 <int-e> well, randomness is a type of state.
14:34:39 <EvanR> yeah, there are more or less painful ways to properly include "non-determinism" in the program
14:34:43 <r-sta> i thought i might happen uppon a nice initialization by chance... *sigh*
14:34:44 <int-e> So... you gotta bite some bullet. A monad, or careful manual passing of a splittable RNG into your pure functions. Or, in easy cases, just an infinite list of generated vlaues.
14:35:12 <int-e> But "I have this pure code, now I want to make a part of it random" just is a no-go in Haskell.
14:35:16 <r-sta> ok, iv recompiled so i can run it in ghci to try and use break-on-error
14:35:49 <EvanR> when you try to make pure code act non-purely, the debugging is hellish, as you are discovering
14:36:06 <r-sta> ghci> :trace main
14:36:06 <r-sta> Stopped in <exception thrown>, <unknown>
14:36:07 <r-sta> _exception :: e = _
14:36:16 <r-sta> such informative!
14:36:42 <mauke> hah
14:36:51 <r-sta> ... [<unknown>] ghci> :back
14:36:51 <r-sta> no more logged breakpoints
14:37:24 <r-sta> idk wtf im doing im going spare
14:37:36 int-e would probably just comment out the problematic randomRIO-wrapping function to collect a list of uses. Maybe rename it so if a call site looks uncritical, it can be "fixed" by adding a TODO using the replacement.
14:37:40 <mauke> I've never used this stuff. can you print _exception?
14:38:18 <int-e> adding a TODO *and* using the replacement (renamed function)
14:38:47 <mauke> actually, ':force _exception' and ':show context' may be relevant?
14:38:53 <r-sta> yeah, if i could even find where the damn unsafePerformIO calls are being made!
14:39:00 <int-e> grep?
14:39:05 <r-sta> windows...
14:39:23 <EvanR> may all your functions be total, either explicitly or because of certain inputs or states of your algorithm are provably impossible
14:39:32 <r-sta> id rather just keep all the nondeterminism and actually locate where the loop occurs
14:39:34 <int-e> grep for windows then ;-)
14:39:42 <mauke> findstr?
14:40:07 <int-e> . o O ( git grep :-P )
14:40:09 <__monty__> Can't you grep from Windows' Linux shell?
14:40:26 <EvanR> search your code using the IDE
14:40:33 <r-sta> i use wordpad
14:40:43 <EvanR> are we trying to make this as hard as possible
14:40:44 <int-e> to me string finding is such a fundamental (even though crude and basic) developer tool...
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14:41:02 <r-sta> EvanR it has never failed me in the last 18 years
14:41:03 <mauke> wordpad?!
14:41:09 <mauke> real programmers use powerpoint
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14:41:11 <EvanR> haskell with unsafe randomness + windows + no programming editor
14:41:22 <EvanR> sounds like a recipe for success
14:41:24 <r-sta> >:-|
14:41:42 <r-sta> not the ghc teams fault for not giving loop breakpoint lines or anything
14:41:55 <__monty__> No need for jokes at anyone's expense. Let's brainstorm a way forward.
14:42:02 <EvanR> you think debugging is hard right now, don't look at older versions of GHC
14:42:22 <EvanR> you didn't even have HasCallstack
14:42:23 <int-e> r-sta: the RTS is entering a black hole that basically has no info about how it was initially created
14:42:40 <r-sta> so what do i do?
14:42:48 <r-sta> can i step through line by line?
14:42:53 <int-e> despair, but you're already doing that
14:42:59 <r-sta> quite adeptly
14:43:08 <EvanR> haskell doesn't evaluate line by line, it's lazy
14:43:11 <__monty__> I think int-e's suggestion is the most promising so far. Rename the function and the compiler will complain about where it's used.
14:43:30 <EvanR> which means even more importance on pure functional techniques
14:43:31 <r-sta> i dont know which function it is
14:43:40 <r-sta> all i was saying is that there was a RIO
14:43:43 <int-e> well, neither does ghci
14:43:56 <__monty__> r-sta: The one(s) you use unsafePerformIO in.
14:44:08 <r-sta> it breaks deterministically *enough* now iv found *most* of the unsafe randomRIO seeds
14:44:16 <mauke> we're debugging <<loop>> now
14:44:21 <r-sta> sry
14:44:32 <r-sta> i would share my code but its HUGE
14:44:34 <__monty__> r-sta: Ripgrep claims to support Windows FWIW.
14:45:13 <r-sta> installation via chocolatey
14:45:26 <int-e> I'm serious. You can maybe figure out who forced the closure that results in <<loop>>. There are profiling info based stack traces that should tell you that. But figuring out where that closure was created... well if you're lucky it's nearby the use. But it may be somewhere entirely different. Lazy evaluation *is* tricky.
14:45:45 <r-sta> okok
14:45:58 <r-sta> "profiling info based stack traces"
14:46:00 <r-sta> sounds good
14:46:36 <int-e> My personal approach to debugging <<loop>>-s is to test thoroughly so that I find them early enough that I can blame my most recently added code for going wrong. (Doesn't always work, of course, and if it doesn't it's kind of painful.)
14:46:47 <r-sta> looping function is called, program breaks, identify looping function, fix badly named variable, sorted
14:47:15 <EvanR> variable shadowing
14:47:17 <r-sta> int-e: i spent hours adding Show instances all over the place last night
14:47:30 <r-sta> i can kind of almost see where it was going wrong
14:47:42 <r-sta> and then the non-determinism came along and ruined everything
14:47:55 <r-sta> i was like, commenting out stuff or putting undefineds
14:48:07 <r-sta> and then it was like, presumably, not breaking just by random
14:48:09 <r-sta> :-(
14:48:15 <r-sta> i didnt know what was happening!!
14:48:27 <r-sta> at least now i *know* there was non-determinism
14:48:49 <int-e> My favorite <<loop>> was somewhere on haskell-cafe ages ago where somebody had code that used r,s,t as variables, and r,g,b as color values... and failed to spot the overlap :-)
14:48:50 <EvanR> this is why haskell is pure, because they predicted that debugging a combination of lazy and effectful would be insane
14:49:02 <EvanR> though that doesn't help with <<loop>>
14:49:06 <r-sta> i think i might just throw my computer out the window, move to a new country, learn meditation techniques, invent some paradoxical SSRIs and start afresh
14:49:43 <r-sta> EvarR: thats actually quite interesting
14:50:04 <EvanR> colliding or shadowing variables names defeats one of the best ways the compiler can tell you about your nonsense code: variable name goes nowhere or has wrong type
14:50:13 <r-sta> (anyone know the difference between an sNRI and an SNRI ?)
14:50:22 <r-sta> because my GP didnt!
14:50:39 <r-sta> im gona take a break before my computer loops itself down the stairs
14:50:59 <r-sta> thanks for the tips. i might return for tips on stack tracing
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14:57:36 <merijn> int-e: This is why I started using shadow warnings everywhere
14:57:43 <merijn> Shadowing is just never worth it
14:59:08 <int-e> this is why I actually use the foo x | x <- x+1 = x style (in moderation)
14:59:26 <int-e> the problem with just disallowing shadowing is that it doesn't prevent you from using the old value
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15:02:07 <int-e> (it's not without downsides; most notable, it doesn't work well together with `where`)
15:03:41 <sprout> > let 2 + 2 = 5 in 2 + 2
15:03:42 <lambdabot> 5
15:04:13 <int-e> sprout: with great power comes great responsibility
15:04:23 <EvanR> there are 4 lights
15:04:37 <sprout> code was never meant to be executed anyway
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15:15:51 <EvanR> that code wasn't meant to be executed. The AST for that code we never meant to be compiled. The string containing the raw code characters was never meant to be parsed
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15:23:19 <int-e> EvanR: I see you're embracing pure laziness.
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18:03:10 <r-sta> hi, im wondering about how to do stack traces for profiling a <<loop>> error that im stuck trying to find in a large illegible piece of code
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18:03:56 <r-sta> it is part of a machine learning experiment which retrains a parametric opperator by stochastic methods
18:04:18 <r-sta> i have turned off random number random entropy source so that the error is reproducable
18:04:31 <r-sta> but it only occurs under some certain parametrizations
18:04:45 <r-sta> i cannot understand how this causes it to go down a looping branch of code
18:04:58 <r-sta> but there must be some value dependant branching that i cant locate
18:05:22 <r-sta> im looking for methods to step through subsequent function calls, so i can see the name of the function that is entering into a loop
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18:10:17 <r-sta> also, is there any way that a function can "seem" to loop, but actually not
18:10:50 <r-sta> like, how far down an infine list would it evaluate before determining it was looping?
18:11:34 <myfirstname> All I know if is using ghci's debugger and stepping thru it
18:11:34 <r-sta> the reason for asking is because the error appeared after i added this;
18:11:34 <r-sta> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/3NOfOw98
18:11:48 <myfirstname> know of*
18:11:49 <r-sta> myfirstname: how is this done?
18:12:05 <myfirstname> https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/7.4.1/docs/html/users_guide/ghci-debugger.html
18:12:10 <r-sta> the above code i cant see how it could have an error, so i guess it must be somewhere else
18:12:47 <myfirstname> The <<loop>> error is very frustrating and helpful though. would love a better method of handling it
18:12:53 <myfirstname> unhelpful >_>
18:13:09 <r-sta> ditto
18:13:22 <r-sta> ok, so i just put like :break 2, and then :continue
18:13:30 <r-sta> until i see something looping?
18:15:21 <r-sta> hmm, if i do :break main
18:15:26 <r-sta> it just says;
18:15:50 <r-sta> ... [<unknown>] ghci> main
18:15:51 <r-sta> Stopped in <exception thrown>, <unknown>
18:15:51 <r-sta> _exception :: e = _
18:16:03 <r-sta> and then :continue gives;
18:16:04 <r-sta> ... [<unknown>] ghci> :continue
18:16:05 <r-sta> Stopped in <exception thrown>, <unknown>
18:16:05 <r-sta> _exception :: e = _
18:16:06 <r-sta> ... [<unknown>] ghci>
18:16:15 <myfirstname> I haven't used it much, and don't remember precisely how things work. I do remember getting it to work tho, just takes a bit of getting used to.
18:16:39 <r-sta> this is utterly hopeless, i give up
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18:23:27 <int-e> Oh, bye. Maybe this is a problem: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/AFAPO6lK
18:25:19 <int-e> . o O ( most horrible zipper )
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18:43:22 <[exa]> evenin'
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18:48:25 <[exa]> oh wow <<loop>> again :D apparently LLMs don't see any issue with doing `do {let x = f ( ... x ... ); ... }` because it works everywhere else
18:49:22 <int-e> And it works in Haskell too ;-)
18:49:33 <[exa]> :]
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19:51:43 <dminuoso> [exa]: It absolutely does, the <<loop>> detection is just broken. Disable it and just wait a while, it will get the right response, I promise.
19:51:55 <dminuoso> Good luck proving me wrong!
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19:54:54 [exa] dramatically collapses the arithmetic hierarchy! dminuoso's arguments are squished under the weight of Π₄ Σ₅ and higher orders! enumerated!
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19:57:35 <dminuoso> I feel eternal, somehow.
19:57:47 <probie> Apart from easy to find typos and LLM generated code, how often do people encounter <<loop>> in practice? It just doesn't seem like something that comes up particularly often, and most other languages just actually loop if you have a similar mistake
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19:58:39 <dminuoso> probie: Mostly during my beginner time. Nowadays? Havent had one in years, but thats probably because I also avoid writing non-trivial algorithms in all pure code for a bunch of reasons
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20:00:18 <[exa]> probie: in the several occasions I saw here it was always the case of `let x = something x` accident
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20:00:44 <dminuoso> It happens more often in Haskell because our loops do not use structured primitives, in say C++ you would rarely use a jmp/goto but rather a for loop
20:01:30 <[exa]> (to me it looks like that the coding style of haskellers seems to somehow adjust itself towards very distinguishable identifiers with time, thus preventing the accident)
20:01:56 <dminuoso> Now of course, if most loop-like structured were replaced by recursion schemes, its very conceivable that code producing <<loop>> errors would fail to pass the type checker
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20:03:14 <[exa]> yeah recursion schemes help
20:03:52 <EvanR> probie, when you're writing a algorithm by hand and don't have a proof it terminates, it might loop kind of easily
20:04:05 <dminuoso> Most of my bugs in recent years were all because of misused unsafePerformIO or careless explicit IO unwrapping...
20:04:09 <dminuoso> I sense a pattern emerging...
20:04:11 <EvanR> using canned recursion combinators helps avoid it
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20:05:08 <dminuoso> EvanR: I like debugging my algorithms, so slapping IO onto them is fine by me. :p
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20:05:30 <[exa]> also the point-les^H^H^Hfree golfing competition contributes indirectly a lot (hard to re-use the loop you can't name it)
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20:06:22 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> tomsmeding remember the weird TH code you helped me with? i fiinshed it up, it works: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/7OrbW5rC
20:06:42 <__monty__> dminuoso: Non-trivial algorithms still in Haskell or something else?
20:06:51 <dminuoso> __monty__: In Haskell.
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20:08:43 <tomsmeding> magic_rb: if you do `storeName = pure . ConT . mkNameS $ baseName ++ "Store"` then you can write `$storeName` instead of `$(pure (ConT storeName))`
20:09:02 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> yeah i need to clean it up
20:09:06 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> im a bit tired for that lol
20:09:07 <tomsmeding> (`$x` is sugar for `$(pure x)`)
20:09:14 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> oh
20:09:17 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> okay that i didnt know
20:09:19 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> thanks
20:09:34 <tomsmeding> questionable if it's worth it here
20:10:05 <dminuoso> Well you could define a `contT = pure . ContT` helper that might reduce a lot of clutter
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20:10:26 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: you made the same typo twice in a row
20:10:35 <tomsmeding> (it's ConT)
20:10:46 <dminuoso> What can I say, Im mtl damaged goods.
20:10:52 <dminuoso> Or transformers, whatever.
20:10:56 <tomsmeding> magic_rb: are you happy with your first real TH code
20:10:58 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: heh
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20:11:35 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> im happy it works, but uh
20:11:41 <tomsmeding> turns out conT already exists https://hackage.haskell.org/package/template-haskell-2.18.0.0/docs/Language-Haskell-TH-Lib-Internal.html#v:conT
20:11:52 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> iif youre asking whether i want to write more TH code, the answer is _yesn't_
20:11:56 <tomsmeding> :)
20:12:10 <dminuoso> I wonder, why use caseE rather than CaseE here?
20:12:11 <tomsmeding> it's not super pleasant, no
20:12:16 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> yes because its extremely powerful and the problem it solved for me is wonderful
20:12:21 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> but no because its horrible
20:12:21 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: avoid a `pure`
20:12:22 <dminuoso> It seems like there's a lot of monadic helper usages without any effects
20:12:27 <tomsmeding> yes
20:12:43 <tomsmeding> and they also take monadic arguments that they just execute once
20:12:45 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: How does caseE avoid a pure?
20:12:54 <dminuoso> There's quite a few unnecessary pure that would disappear with CaseE
20:12:56 <dminuoso> For instance
20:13:00 <tomsmeding> no the other way round
20:13:09 <tomsmeding> in a splice $(x), the x needs to be of type Q Exp
20:13:25 <tomsmeding> so if you want to generate a case expression to splice in, you'd write $(pure (CaseE .....))
20:13:31 <glguy> dminuoso: The whole of the template haskell API is set up to make it possible to use it without explicit binds. Lots of the things are just trivially wrapped to reduce monad noise
20:13:36 <tomsmeding> caseE is convenience
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20:13:44 <tomsmeding> that ^
20:13:58 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> oh im missing an instance still, grr
20:14:06 <tomsmeding> more TH! :D
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20:14:31 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> ! D:
20:14:33 <dminuoso> Im just not happy with TH at all. :(
20:14:54 <tomsmeding> magic_rb: wait you can use a splice in a pattern position?
20:14:59 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> its hard to write these instances normally, TH makes it harder
20:15:11 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> tomsmeding idk youre the expert
20:15:18 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> it works, so i guess so lmao
20:15:23 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: You mean quotation, no?
20:15:24 <tomsmeding> then you can simplify the caseE code
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20:15:33 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: quotes are [| |], splices are $( )
20:15:38 <tomsmeding> quotes produce monadic values too, by the way
20:15:46 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: Maybe we're looking at different parts then. What are you staring at?
20:16:07 <tomsmeding> dminuoso: you were asking about 'caseE'; there are only two occurrences of 'caseE', and they are in a splice
20:16:23 <dminuoso> tomsmeding: No I meant regarding quotation, I was looking at the [| val |] parts
20:16:28 <tomsmeding> ah
20:16:33 <tomsmeding> well [| |] returns a Q Exp
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20:16:51 <tomsmeding> so with CaseE, that would need to be [| val |] >>= \exp -> pure (CaseE exp ....)
20:17:03 <tomsmeding> which is unwieldy, so caseE exists
20:17:04 <dminuoso> Nevermind, we've got our wires crossed.
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20:17:30 <glguy> It's often much more pleasant to use th-abstraction instead of using `reify` directly https://hackage.haskell.org/package/th-abstraction-0.7.1.0/docs/Language-Haskell-TH-Datatype.html
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20:19:09 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> i just want to state, you guys have completely lost me :) but no worries, ill bother you some other when im not falling asleep
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20:20:32 <tomsmeding> magic_rb: I think this should work too (but untested) https://paste.tomsmeding.com/N9x3Eopo
20:20:47 <tomsmeding> only difference is in the generated ExplGet instance methods, I'm using a normal case expression instead of caseE
20:21:11 <tomsmeding> I used caseE before because I thought that $() splices could only appear in expression position, not in pattern position, but you're using them in pattern position in the arguments to explExists and explGet
20:21:18 <tomsmeding> so apparently this is allowed :p
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20:30:04 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> tomsmeding yeah that works too, thanks :)
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20:32:19 <glguy> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/Amxhzbyc
20:33:27 <glguy> It's easier to read if you name a few things and use the monad helpers ^
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20:35:51 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> glguy yeah im working on that
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20:35:54 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> i came up with https://paste.tomsmeding.com/mukbO2zZ
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20:38:02 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> applied your changes too, thanks
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20:41:34 <haskellbridge> <magic_rb> works like a charm, thanks a lot everyone, i can continue with the combat system
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All times are in UTC on 2025-07-21.