Logs on 2025-07-23 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 01:11:36 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> Hello. How can I set HLS's haskell.formattingProvider in emacs? |
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| 01:28:48 | <Axman6> | Anyone know how to fix this? I have llvm-18 available so the version shouldn't be a problem: error: [GHC-66599] GHC was not configured with a supported LLVM toolchain Make sure you have installed LLVM between [13 and 20) and reinstall GHC to make -fllvm work |
| 01:30:48 | <Axman6> | I see GHC outputs "*** systool:llc:" is I call it driectly with -v, llc is in my path too and reports v18.1.8 |
| 01:33:12 | <geekosaur> | how did you install ghc? |
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| 01:35:02 | <geekosaur> | Ricardo: easiest way is probably `(customize-group 'lsp-haskell)` |
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| 01:40:13 | <geekosaur> | Axman6: in the normal case (bindist `configure; make install`; note that ghcup also runs this) the LLVM toolchain is checked during `configure` and if you add or change it afterward then you must re-run the bindist `configure`. If you used ghcup to install, that means uninstalling and reinstalling that ghc version |
| 01:40:18 | <Axman6> | ghcup |
| 01:40:42 | <Axman6> | ah! ok, so it's an install time thing, that's kind of annoying. |
| 01:40:52 | <geekosaur> | yes |
| 01:41:10 | <Axman6> | I was hoping it would just use the opt, llc etc. in my PATH |
| 01:41:21 | <geekosaur> | there's work on improving this somewhat but you would still need to run `ghc-toolchain` to update ghc configuration |
| 01:41:22 | <Axman6> | ok, I might see if I can nix all of it then |
| 01:41:53 | <geekosaur> | I think it needs to adapt the IR codegen to match the LLVM version? |
| 01:42:06 | <geekosaur> | so it needs to be baked into the settings file |
| 01:43:01 | <geekosaur> | (worth remembering is ghc doesn't use LLVM the "correct" way, it's using an interface that has no guaranteed stability) |
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| 01:44:30 | <Axman6> | :') |
| 01:44:42 | <Axman6> | what would the correct way be? |
| 01:44:50 | <Axman6> | calling it as a library? |
| 01:44:54 | <geekosaur> | yes |
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| 01:59:54 | <geekosaur> | @Ricardo, make that M-x customize-group lsp-haskell |
| 01:59:54 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
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| 03:02:25 | <jreicher> | geekosaur: eglot is probably a better option |
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| 09:19:47 | <tomsmeding> | calling LLVM as a library is MUCH more unstable than LLVM IR :p |
| 09:20:11 | <tomsmeding> | it's just that typically your program will not compile with the new LLVM version instead of failing, but only just "typically" |
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| 10:04:35 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> LLVM not having a stable something even after all these years is absolutely mind boggling to me |
| 10:04:51 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> I dont expect a stable library, but at least the damn IR could be stable |
| 10:04:55 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> It doesnt change that often |
| 10:05:01 | <tomsmeding> | it's essentially stable |
| 10:05:37 | <tomsmeding> | they're trying to deprecate and remove explicit pointee types for pointers, but newest clang still accepts them in the IR |
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| 10:05:50 | <tomsmeding> | first deprecation was 5 major versions ago |
| 10:06:02 | <tomsmeding> | they're trying not to break IR producers and consumers, mostly |
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| 10:09:10 | <tomsmeding> | there have apparently been some breaking changes in representation of debug info over the years |
| 10:09:51 | <tomsmeding> | magic_rb: this thing https://github.com/GaloisInc/llvm-pretty/blob/master/src/Text/LLVM/PP.hs tries to produce compatible IR for a large range of LLVM IR versions, and conditionals are mostly around things that are newly added in newer versions, or debug info stuff |
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| 11:21:10 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> tomsmeding its essentially stable yes, but officially youre not supposed to produce IR directly and its not stable, which is dumb |
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| 11:51:28 | <xdej> | g |
| 11:51:33 | <xdej> | oh sorry |
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| 13:19:12 | <[exa]> | is there some nice utility/library that would help with prettyprinting DAGs? Like there's the Tree one for printing out tree-ish things -- instead I'd basically like to print out a piece of git history. |
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| 13:29:02 | <Leary> | [exa]: Graphviz? |
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| 14:02:05 | <[exa]> | Leary: I meant more like the drawing of the branchy structure for what you normally see in git log --graph and on githubs etc. |
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| 18:48:11 | <smiesner> | haskell on corporate windows laptop is too hard/much to install under the radar.. what else would you recommend instead? |
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| 18:55:43 | <EvanR> | really |
| 18:55:59 | <EvanR> | don't you just unpack some files and set your PATH |
| 18:58:05 | <c_wraith> | monochrom: I seem to recall you saying no one had ever proven Adams' trees actually work. Well.. They don't. But I wasn't the first to discover that. |
| 18:58:10 | <geekosaur> | bindist `configure; make install` is a bit more than that |
| 18:58:45 | <geekosaur> | eventually we're going to get bindists where you can slap them on a thumb drive and run `ghc-toolchain` to set them up, but that's not ready yet |
| 18:58:50 | <EvanR> | I recall installing on windows and this basically being what it amounted to |
| 18:59:10 | <EvanR> | but it was before "windows services for linux" |
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| 19:01:47 | <monochrom> | c_wraith: Ah interesting, nice. |
| 19:02:39 | <c_wraith> | monochrom: But! Milan Straka has a paper that claims to fix it, and prove that the fixes are correct. And I've heard his name a few times, so I get the impression he's reliable. http://fox.ucw.cz/papers/bbtree/bbtree.pdf |
| 19:03:30 | <c_wraith> | It's a pretty small tweak, that basically works out to adding a factor of preference for single rotations over double rotations. |
| 19:03:40 | <smiesner> | EvanR: ghcup install command throws errors bc of the restricted environment. installing everything by hand seems tedious and MSYS2 proved error prone in the past.. sadly no WSL available for me either |
| 19:04:16 | <EvanR> | what about a VM |
| 19:05:28 | <smiesner> | puuh, you gave me the belief to try the manual route again tomorrow |
| 19:05:35 | ← | yabobay parts (~pizza@2a02:85f:fcd5:1601:a753:ff59:be6f:253f) (Konversation terminated!) |
| 19:07:52 | <c_wraith> | It was kind of funny though, when I got into the details of trying to debug "this sequence of operations results in a tree that violates the balance conditions". I saw the shape of the tree, and just went "oh. That absolutely looks like an edge-case exposing tree" |
| 19:08:02 | <monochrom> | Corporate laptop is always going to be a gatekeeper. |
| 19:08:26 | <monochrom> | BYOD is always the solution. |
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| 19:11:57 | <tomsmeding> | smiesner: what are the errors ghcup throws? |
| 19:13:59 | <smiesner> | i dont have the exact error msg at hand now but i think it was something system/os unsafe language related, I didn't want to mess around with |
| 19:14:43 | <tomsmeding> | "os unsafe language" does not tell me anything :) |
| 19:14:46 | <smiesner> | could have been ConstrainedLanguage mode |
| 19:15:06 | <EvanR> | microsoft policing your language? |
| 19:15:07 | <tomsmeding> | oh I ssee |
| 19:15:19 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: seems to be a powershell sublanguage |
| 19:15:39 | <monochrom> | ghcup on Windows does need you to grant a permission. This is well-documented. |
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| 19:16:51 | <smiesner> | yes it def was the constrained lang mode. additionally i have no network connection while being a local admin, which i need to be to be able to install anything |
| 19:16:55 | <dolio> | glguy: You around? |
| 19:17:12 | <glguy> | Hi |
| 19:17:37 | <dolio> | I've been meaning to ask; what do you do about building glirc these days? |
| 19:17:44 | <dolio> | I can't build the openssl dependency. |
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| 20:28:50 | <glguy> | dolio: what platform? |
| 20:30:07 | <dolio> | Fedora 42. It has a new enough openssl to trigger deprecation errors for the C bindings in HsOpenSSL. |
| 20:30:21 | <dolio> | Has for a while, actually. |
| 20:30:25 | <glguy> | dolio: I build on Apple Silicon mac and I have to do https://paste.tomsmeding.com/lC0pl5t6 which doesn't have that I guess |
| 20:30:44 | <glguy> | I have openssl 3.5.1 |
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| 20:35:16 | <glguy> | Perhaps the GCC Fedora is shipping is more aggressive about deprecations that the clang macOS comes iwth |
| 20:35:40 | <dolio> | Maybe. It seems like my actual version is older than 3.5. |
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| 20:47:02 | <tomsmeding> | degraafk: "deprecation errors"? Isn't the point of deprecation that it's still there but will be removed in the future? |
| 20:47:12 | <tomsmeding> | dolio: ^ |
| 20:47:19 | <tomsmeding> | apologies for the mis-mention |
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| 20:47:43 | <dolio> | All I know is that it doesn't build. |
| 20:48:01 | <dolio> | Maybe it's because someone decided to -Werror. |
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| 20:48:28 | <tomsmeding> | -Werror should be a thing in CI, possibly on one's dev machine, not in a released library |
| 20:49:41 | <dolio> | There seems to be a patch that turns off the deprecation warnings, but a corresponding version hasn't been released to hackage yet. |
| 20:49:57 | <glguy> | fixes or turns off? |
| 20:50:03 | <dolio> | Turns off. |
| 20:50:13 | <tomsmeding> | software engineering :) |
| 20:50:38 | <glguy> | Maybe I'll fork hsopenssl and rip out all the stuff glirc doesn't need <_< |
| 20:50:42 | <dolio> | The fix is to rewrite the C bindings to a different API. There's an issue for that, but I don't see a lot of movement. |
| 20:50:53 | <tomsmeding> | dolio: well then I guess the answer to "how do I build glirc" is "add a cabal.project with a source-repository-package that points to the hack-fix commit" |
| 20:51:38 | <dolio> | Yeah, I mean, I know what I can do to build it. I was wondering what other people were actually doing. |
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| 20:51:55 | <dolio> | Also the situation doesn't seem great. :) |
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| 20:52:33 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> geekosaur: Thank you geekosaur ! I found the variable "lsp-haskell-formatting-provider" and, after changing it, emacs seems to be doing something different when saving the file. I notice the buffer scrolls while before it didn't, so I'm assuming the change took effect. Unfortunately, the formatter is still sorting imports. I changed it to "floskell" because floskell is supposed to not order imports by default. |
| 20:55:21 | <dolio> | According to the issue tracking the proper fix, which is about a year old, the deprecated API is due to be actually removed soon. Maybe that's been delayed, though. |
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| 20:57:46 | <geekosaur> | @Ricardo: hm, sorry, I wouldn't know from there. I actually moved to codium/vscode for programming so while I have some idea of how to configure emacs with LSP I don't know how well it works at this point |
| 20:57:46 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 20:58:08 | <glguy> | dolio: maybe fixing this is what AI is for? |
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| 21:02:29 | <geekosaur> | oh, missed earlier response |
| 21:02:32 | <dolio> | I doubt it will save much time if you care about someone who actually knows what's going on made sure the result makes sense. |
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| 21:03:39 | <geekosaur> | jreicher: HLS points to lsp-mode which points to lsp-haskell and doesn't seem to mention eglot aside from tangentially |
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| 22:09:26 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> geekosaur: I see. Thank you. I find it really baffling that ormolu and fourmolu sort imports |
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| 22:18:10 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> Does anyone know how I can configure HLS in emacs to use floskell? I run "floskell Main.hs" and the result is not the same that emacs is giving me when I save a file. Or is it possible to at least disable the automatic formatting that HLS on emacs does whenever I save a file? |
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| 22:39:33 | <jreicher> | geekosaur: If you have HLS installed you should be able to do M-x eglot and it will "just work", as the default eglot server list already has haskell-language-server-wrapper configured. But make sure you are not using lsp-mode when you do this. Have the buffer just in plain haskell-mode. |
| 22:40:05 | <geekosaur> | @Ricardo ^^ |
| 22:40:05 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 22:43:27 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> jreicher: I'm using lsp-mode because doom emacs comes with it and that's what I'm using. Also, it is not the case that HLS isn't working in my setup. It's just that it isn't honouring the value of the variable lsp-haskell-formatting-provider as it seems. |
| 22:43:54 | <jreicher> | Core Emacs comes with eglot, which means it's in all versions of Emacs. |
| 22:44:32 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> I know. I'm just saying that I'm using lsp-mode instead. |
| 22:45:03 | <jreicher> | Any particular reason? The experience of most Emacs users now I think is that eglot works better. |
| 22:45:32 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> Because I like the configuration that doom emacs brings for lsp-mode |
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| 23:20:17 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> I just found that "cabal help user-config" talks about "~/.config/cabal/config" being the config file, but it turns out the actual file is "~/.cabal/config". I hope someone here is a cabal dev or sufficiently motivated to report the inconsistency in the documentation |
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| 23:29:19 | <geekosaur> | iirc the actual behavior is "if ~/.cabal exists then it is used for backward compatibility, but new installs will create ~/.config/cabal/config |
| 23:29:23 | <geekosaur> | " |
| 23:29:49 | <geekosaur> | that said, I'm not sure how ghcup's autosetup of cabal interacts, it may precreate ~/.cabal |
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| 23:31:15 | <geekosaur> | verified that the XDG path is used if ~/.cabal doesn't already exist |
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| 23:34:29 | <geekosaur> | I'm not sure if the help can reasonably adapt to the two cases |
| 23:35:13 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> geekosaur: This may be the case, because I installed cabal just a few days ago using ghcup |
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| 23:35:51 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> geekosaur: It'd be easy to do so |
| 23:36:12 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> Just mention the two options in "cabal help user-config" |
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| 23:38:28 | <geekosaur> | https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/11096 |
| 23:39:36 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> Cool! |
| 23:40:40 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> Also I guess ghcup should use "~/.config/cabal" instead of "~/.cabal" |
| 23:40:53 | <geekosaur> | its author hates XDG |
| 23:41:12 | <geekosaur> | there's a way to make ghcup itself use XDG but it's somewhat poorly behaved |
| 23:41:45 | <geekosaur> | (for example I have `cabal-plan` installed, ghcup lists it as a stray `cabal` version) |
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| 23:47:26 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> I see. Well, it's curious that the author of such an important tool in the Haskell ecosystem holds that opinion and forces his opinion on the whole ecosystem |
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| 23:56:15 | <haskellbridge> | <Ricardo> When I run "cabal init" I'm asked which version of the cabal specification to use and the default option is 3.0, but the latest is 3.4. Why would anyone want to create a package today with version 3.0 instead of 3.4, the latest? |
| 23:57:26 | <geekosaur> | backward compatibility |
| 23:57:47 | <c_wraith> | there's also just not that much new stuff. If you don't need the new stuff, don't say you do |
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| 23:58:44 | <geekosaur> | right, that as well. you're declaring what features your package needs; if you don't need fancier new stuff, don't bother declaring it |
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