Logs on 2025-07-28 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 01:34:20 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
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| 04:40:42 | ← | f-a parts (ff2a@joined.irc.for-some.fun) () |
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| 13:09:10 | <fp> | Looking at the conversation from yesterday, what is a CSE in the package/environment management context? I can't seem to get anything out of an internet search |
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| 13:41:29 | <Henson> | hi everyone, I'm encountering a problem with foreign memory allocation and haskell-based threading using "async". If I allocate memory on one thread using callocBytes and pass that to another thread that deallocates it, I encounter a memory leak. When the Ptr is bundled into an ForeignPtr and the allocator/deallocator threads are spawned with "async" then the memory leak happens. But if... |
| 13:42:27 | <Henson> | they're spawned with "asyncBound" then it doesn't happen. If instead of wrapping the Ptrs into ForeignPtrs I just pass the Ptrs from the allocator to deallocator thread, then the memory leak doesn't happen either. I'm trying to understand why the leak happens with the ForeignPtr + async combination. |
| 13:43:13 | <Lycurgus> | looks like CSE was just a typo, not a design pattern at al, but someone had computer science education on mind |
| 13:43:41 | <Lycurgus> | *at all |
| 13:43:47 | <Henson> | I've tried many different RTS tuning parameters releated to garbage collection but nothing seems to help. The memory seems to be un-deallocatable. Even I called "performGC" often it doesn't make any difference. Pausing the threads doesn't make a difference. The memory seems like it can't be released properly and never gets cleaned up. |
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| 14:00:05 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Maybe the ptrs are being held alive by something? |
| 14:00:20 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> A minimal reproducer would be great |
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| 14:35:40 | <merijn> | Wild guess is that the async is never cleaned up, keeping the pointer alive indefinitely |
| 14:35:58 | <merijn> | Since async's doc even have a warning about using withAsync, since async might leak |
| 14:37:41 | <merijn> | Async contains a ThreadId and threads are not GCed while you hold on to their threadid |
| 14:38:08 | <merijn> | So if you're holding on to async's the threads don't get GCed and (in turn) nothing in that thread's GC root will be |
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| 15:07:42 | <dolio> | CSE is 'common subexpression elimination.' It's a transformation where you look for subexpressions that occur multiple times, then turn them into named bindings so that they are evaluated at most once. |
| 15:08:10 | <Henson> | merijn: the creator/destructor threads are created in pairs and use an MVar to pass the memory pointers back-and-forth. Only 10 creator/destructor pairs are ever created, but many many memory allocations/deallocations are performed. When the memory block allocated is a multiple of 1024*1024 (1 MB) then the leak also doesn't happen. Based on the block size the leak can be faster or slow |
| 15:08:28 | <Henson> | merijn: I also tried using forkIO and forkOS instead of async, and the problem still happens. |
| 15:09:05 | <Henson> | the leak seems to happen equally with GHC 8.10.7 and 9.12.2 |
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| 15:09:35 | <dolio> | And the analogy with cabal is that common dependencies of multiple projects are built at most once and shared, rather than being built once for each project. |
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| 15:13:23 | <merijn> | Henson: The question is: Are you keeping Async values around somewhere? |
| 15:14:29 | <dolio> | In the old sandbox setup, each (transitive) dependency would only ever be built once per sandbox . But there was no sharing of common dependencies between sandboxes, even if they wanted identical build specifications. |
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| 15:16:08 | <merijn> | Not to mention sandboxes involved tedious manual management |
| 15:17:30 | <Henson> | merijn: yes, just to "cancel" them at the end. If I don't keep the async values then the problem still occurs. The memory usage also seems to follow a pattern of flat usage for several seconds, then an increase in about 2 seconds to a higher value, then it flattens for maybe 7 seconds, then another gradual increase, etc. |
| 15:18:00 | <merijn> | Henson: Have you profiled yet? |
| 15:18:31 | <merijn> | Or checked the GC report? |
| 15:19:21 | <merijn> | That said, this is hard to troubleshoot without a minimal reproducer like magic_rb said |
| 15:20:15 | <Henson> | merijn: I have tried profiling, but the problem is that the calloc returns a pointer, which is tiny, but points to a large amount of memory. Because the memory is allocated in the C level, the RTS isn't able to keep track of it, so no significant memory usage shows up. |
| 15:21:03 | <Henson> | merijn, magic_rb: I'm working on putting together a minimal reproducer. |
| 15:21:03 | <merijn> | I would expect that to still show up as a PINNED allocation |
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| 15:22:40 | <Henson> | merijn: I don't think it does. I've done every kind of memory profiling the GHC's profiling offers, and the C-based memory allocation doesn't show up. |
| 15:23:17 | <merijn> | Henson: Ah, wait |
| 15:23:23 | <merijn> | The problem is calloc :) |
| 15:23:34 | <merijn> | (not your leak problem, the profiling one) |
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| 15:23:58 | <Henson> | merijn: oh, also, the leak when using "async" will not happen with "+RTS -N1" |
| 15:24:11 | <merijn> | Henson: Do you specifically need C malloc or just any allocation? |
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| 15:24:41 | <Henson> | merijn: the problem also happens with C++ "new" and "delete" |
| 15:25:16 | <merijn> | Henson: I meant more like, using mallocForeignPtrBytes, which allocates using GHC's allocator and SHOULD appear in memory profiles |
| 15:25:51 | <merijn> | Since it uses GHC's newAlignedPinnedByteArray, rather than malloc |
| 15:26:40 | <merijn> | I've always used Foreign.ForeignPtr, so I was guessing that's why I'm used to seeing it in profiles while you might not |
| 15:26:43 | <merijn> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.21.0.0/docs/Foreign-ForeignPtr.html#v:mallocForeignPtrBytes |
| 15:27:48 | <Henson> | merijn: the problem with that is that in my production code I don't know a-priori the amount of memory that should be allocated, because it's being allocated in the C/C++ layer and passed back to Haskell. |
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| 15:28:13 | <merijn> | ok, so you do specifically need malloc :) |
| 15:28:31 | <Henson> | merijn: yes |
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| 21:56:15 | <jreicher> | dolio: I didn't know anyone was trying to do something like CSE (haven't heard the term before). Sounds dangerously close to testing for graph isomorphism. |
| 21:57:53 | <dolio> | It's an optimization you might try on code. Usually you wouldn't say you're going to guarantee there are no common subexpressions, just factor them out if you notice them. |
| 21:58:18 | <dolio> | Also, it's not always an optimization. |
| 21:58:35 | <dolio> | GHC does some limited cases of it, though. |
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| 22:00:43 | <dolio> | If you write something like `case <exp> of <pattern> -> ... case <exp> of ...`, then I think it will do that CSE. |
| 22:00:52 | <dolio> | Of <exp> that is. |
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| 22:11:16 | <dolio> | In the cabal case the mechanism is more like hash consing, I guess. Every time you build something you remember what options it and all its dependencies were built with, and store the result indexed by all that information. Then if that ever shows up again in a build plan, you use what you already built. |
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| 22:24:35 | <dolio> | I guess the answer to your implied question is that it's easier than graph isomorphism, because it's graph equality. It's only successful if the node names (package names + build flags) are exactly the same. |
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| 23:38:37 | <monochrom> | You can always use conservative heuristics to decide "maybe don't share this one". |
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All times are in UTC on 2025-07-28.