Logs on 2025-08-11 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 01:04:15 | <albet70> | hi |
| 01:05:19 | <albet70> | addCPS a b k1; this k1's continuation k2 is not passing by parameter? k2 is written in k1's body? |
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| 01:07:50 | <euouae> | When I want to document the lines where I'm being too clever, how should I place the comments? With -- ? |
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| 01:28:21 | <geekosaur> | euouae, I usually put it before with -- |
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| 01:40:46 | <euouae> | sounds good, thank you |
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| 02:46:17 | <ski> | albet70 : what's the code re that ? |
| 02:46:48 | <ski> | before, or at the end of the line (if short), euouae |
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| 02:47:21 | <ski> | you should also put longer implementation-related comments, at the top of a definition, perhaps between the signature and the defining clauses |
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| 02:55:52 | <euouae> | ski: Oh is that how you do it? between signature and defining clausE? |
| 02:56:04 | <euouae> | Because that's what I was asking about in particular, a longer implementation-related comment |
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| 03:09:23 | <albet70> | ski , no code, I just wonder how the continuation's continuation would be |
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| 03:27:51 | <monochrom> | Are you just asking to see this? addCPS a b k1 = k1 (a + b) |
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| 04:03:50 | <ski> | albet70 : typically, there would be none. you can iterate the CPS transform, though. i know of two (?) papers which talks about that, if you're curious |
| 04:04:21 | <ski> | btw, with two levels of continuations, this is closely related to backtracking, in logic programming |
| 04:04:42 | <ski> | it's also related to the Church encoding of lists, and of natural numbers |
| 04:05:08 | <ski> | @unmtl ContT o m a |
| 04:05:08 | <lambdabot> | (a -> m o) -> m o |
| 04:05:19 | <ski> | @unmtl ContT o (ContT p m) a |
| 04:05:19 | <lambdabot> | (a -> (o -> m p) -> m p) -> (o -> m p) -> m p |
| 04:05:33 | <ski> | the second there is two levels of continuations |
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| 04:06:53 | <ski> | if you take |
| 04:06:57 | <ski> | @unmtl ContT () (ContT p (ContT q m)) a |
| 04:06:57 | <lambdabot> | (a -> (() -> (p -> m q) -> m q) -> (p -> m q) -> m q) -> (() -> (p -> m q) -> m q) -> (p -> m q) -> m q |
| 04:07:03 | <ski> | er, no |
| 04:07:10 | <ski> | @unmtl ContT () (ContT p m) a |
| 04:07:10 | <lambdabot> | (a -> (() -> m p) -> m p) -> (() -> m p) -> m p |
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| 04:07:57 | <ski> | this one. the `m p's are, if you investigae the corresponding CPS transform, passed around like a state (as in `StateT (m p)') |
| 04:08:42 | <ski> | @unmtl ContT () (State (m p)) a |
| 04:08:42 | <lambdabot> | (a -> m p -> ((), m p)) -> m p -> ((), m p) |
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| 04:09:47 | <ski> | this observation can be used as an implementation strategy for composable/delimited/sub- continuations, by using a mutable state to keep track of the inner-level continuation |
| 04:10:16 | <ski> | (instead of threading around state versions) |
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| 04:59:42 | <albet70> | monochrom , yes, what k's continuation would be like |
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| 05:41:38 | <ski> | [| \(a,b) -> a + b |]_v = \((a,b),c) -> c (a + b) |
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| 05:41:59 | <ski> | [| \((a,b),c) -> c (a + b) |]_v = \(((a,b),c),k) -> c (a + b,k) |
| 05:42:05 | <ski> | albet70 ^ |
| 05:42:16 | <ski> | there you go |
| 05:42:19 | <ski> | @type \((a,b),c) -> c (a + b) |
| 05:42:20 | <lambdabot> | Num t1 => ((t1, t1), t1 -> t2) -> t2 |
| 05:42:29 | <ski> | @type \(((a,b),c),k) -> c (a + b,k) |
| 05:42:30 | <lambdabot> | Num a => (((a, a), (a, b) -> t), b) -> t |
| 05:43:04 | <ski> | or, renaming a bit, using `Integer', and currying, we get |
| 05:43:20 | <ski> | Integer -> Integer -> (Integer -> o) -> o |
| 05:45:43 | <ski> | Integer -> Integer -> (Integer -> po -> p) -> po -> p |
| 05:46:06 | <ski> | setting `po = p -> o', for the latter one, we get |
| 05:46:22 | <ski> | Integer -> Integer -> (Integer -> (p -> o) -> p) -> (p -> o) -> p |
| 05:46:31 | <ski> | and these two then becomes |
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| 05:46:45 | <ski> | Integer -> Integer -> Cont o Integer |
| 05:47:23 | <ski> | er, no, we should use `po = o -> p', actually .. |
| 05:47:35 | <ski> | Integer -> Integer -> (Integer -> (o -> p) -> p) -> (o -> p) -> p |
| 05:47:48 | <ski> | so |
| 05:48:01 | <ski> | Integer -> Integer -> (Integer -> Cont p o) -> Cont p o |
| 05:48:20 | <ski> | Integer -> Integer -> ContT o (Cont p) Integer |
| 05:49:26 | <ski> | the former, `Integer -> Integer -> Cont o Integer', could be adapted, by replacing `o' by `m o', getting `Integer -> Integer -> ContT o m Integer' |
| 05:49:48 | <ski> | similarly, the latter can be adapted to `Integer -> Integer -> ContT o (ContT p m) Integer' |
| 05:50:30 | <ski> | albet70 : that helps, any ? |
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| 06:28:10 | <dibblego> | It is my understanding of Applicative laws, that left and right should always be equal, what am I missing? https://play.haskell.org/saved/wLdeG3EL |
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| 06:32:46 | <ski> | albet70 : exercise, write `selectC :: (Foldable t,Monad m) => t a -> ContT () m a' (using `for_'), `selectCC :: Foldable t => t a -> ContT () (ContT o m) a' (using `foldr'), and then the corresponding "run" functions `collectCS :: ContT () (State [a]) a -> [a]' and `collectCCL :: ContT () (ContT a []) a -> [a]'. compute `collectCS (selectC [2,3,5,7])' and `collectCCL (selectCC [2,3,5,7])' |
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| 06:39:45 | <c_wraith> | dibblego: are you basing that on the composition law? |
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| 06:40:19 | <c_wraith> | because the parens in right are different from the composition law |
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| 06:40:46 | <dibblego> | c_wraith: yes, also, listed here more explicitly: https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/semigroupoids-6.0.1/docs/Data-Functor-Apply.html#t:Apply |
| 06:41:02 | <c_wraith> | You need right = (. f) <$> x <*> y |
| 06:41:13 | <c_wraith> | adding parens changes the association |
| 06:41:15 | <dibblego> | darnit, thank you |
| 06:42:19 | <ski> | ($ 99) <$> (x <*> (f <$> y)) = ($ 99) <$> (Just (*) <*> ((+ 1) <$> Just 7)) = ($ 99) <$> (Just ((7 + 1) *))) = Just ((7 + 1) * 99) |
| 06:42:22 | <ski> | ($ 99) <$> ((. f) <$> (x <*> y)) = ($ 99) <$> ((. (+ 1)) <$> (Just (*) <*> Just 7)) = ($ 99) <$> Just ((7 *) . (+ 1)) = Just (7 * (99 + 1)) |
| 06:42:52 | <dibblego> | yeah, I just skipped over that, thanks |
| 06:43:48 | <ski> | mm, that looks more sensible, with that association |
| 06:44:38 | <c_wraith> | I didn't bother actually working out the way each calculates. I just looked at the law, noticed that the association looked off, and tested changing it. :) |
| 06:45:06 | ski | didn't recognize where it was supposed to be taken from |
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| 06:49:53 | <c_wraith> | I looked at the laws listed in https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.21.0.0/docs/Control-Applicative.html |
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| 06:50:09 | <c_wraith> | I never actually remember what they are - just that they're really squirrely compared to the monad laws |
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| 06:52:53 | <ski> | pure (.) <*> u <*> v <*> w = u <*> (v <*> w) -- Composition |
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| 06:53:47 | <ski> | not seeing how `x <*> (f <$> y) = (. f) <$> x <*> y)' follows, really |
| 06:53:53 | <ski> | hm. i guess |
| 06:54:06 | <ski> | u <*> pure y = pure ($ y) <*> u -- Interchange |
| 06:54:09 | <ski> | may be involved |
| 06:54:28 | <c_wraith> | nah, the only thing involved is pure f <*> x === f <$> x |
| 06:54:52 | <c_wraith> | that's the only rewrite away from it being exactly the composition law |
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| 06:55:33 | <c_wraith> | Oh, no. You're right, you need to factor the f in. |
| 06:55:49 | <ski> | the order is swapped |
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| 06:58:27 | <c_wraith> | ok, yeah. that gets interchange involved |
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| 07:05:31 | <Leary> | I hate the `Applicative` laws in the haddocks. They should just be associativity of `liftA2 (.)` with identity `pure id`. |
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| 07:09:10 | <ski> | @type GHC.Base.liftA2 |
| 07:09:11 | <lambdabot> | Applicative f => (a -> b -> c) -> f a -> f b -> f c |
| 07:09:16 | <ski> | (that's a method) |
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| 08:00:06 | <jackdk> | Now that it's a method, could they be revised? |
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| 09:18:00 | <ski> | not sure it's officially a method, rather than just for efficiency |
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| 11:35:20 | <Square> | Is there any direct haddock support for documenting type arguments of class? |
| 11:35:53 | <Square> | ...other than include mention of the arguments in the class documentation body that is. |
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| 12:21:42 | <[exa]> | Square: probably not, does it even support "normal" function arguments? |
| 12:22:25 | <Square> | [exa], Actually looks as if there is support for function arguments (but can't remember I've seen it used). |
| 12:23:20 | <[exa]> | ha yes you can annotate the type |
| 12:23:25 | <[exa]> | https://haskell-haddock.readthedocs.io/latest/markup.html#function-arguments |
| 12:23:58 | <Square> | Sadly I don't find anything for type arguments of classes. |
| 12:24:00 | <[exa]> | hm...can we declare and annotate the kind of the typeclass constraunt? :D |
| 12:26:57 | <[exa]> | probably not |
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| 23:27:13 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:28:00 | → | andreas303 joins (andreas303@is.drunk.and.ready-to.party) |
| 23:30:28 | × | yegor quits (~yegor@user/yegorc) (Excess Flood) |
| 23:32:01 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 23:32:14 | → | yegor joins (~yegor@user/yegorc) |
| 23:32:40 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 23:38:03 | → | arahael joins (~arahael@user/arahael) |
| 23:38:29 | × | gorignak quits (~gorignak@user/gorignak) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 23:39:49 | → | gorignak joins (~gorignak@user/gorignak) |
| 23:42:42 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:46:47 | × | sprotte24 quits (~sprotte24@p200300d16f2352007d3d768a06cccf7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:47:06 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 23:53:04 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:57:24 | → | ljdarj1 joins (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) |
| 23:57:48 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
All times are in UTC on 2025-08-11.