Logs on 2025-08-14 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 01:42:04 | <haskellbridge> | <Axman6> Has there ever been a proposal for an alternative to "fromInteger" which also accepts the input as a Nat? Something like "fromInteger' :: Num a => Proxy (n :: Nat) -> Integer -> a" (though I guess it also needs a sign, but ignoring that). GHC warns for overflowed literals for types like Word8, but it's not really accessible to mere mortals right? |
| 01:47:12 | <EvanR> | greetings Axman6, may the grass be greener on the other side of the bridge |
| 01:47:52 | <EvanR> | why does your fromInteger have 2 numeric inputs |
| 01:48:45 | <haskellbridge> | <Axman6> Hmm, that's a point. I guess it could be something like "fromInteger' :: Num a => Proxy (Bool,n :: Nat) -> a" |
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| 01:58:29 | <Leary> | You can write `data SomeInt = Neg SomeNat | Pos SomeNat; instance Num SomeInt where { ... }`. |
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| 04:53:46 | <haskellbridge> | <Axman6> Leary The idea was to be able to support types whose valid values are limited, in this particular case the "Index (n :: Nat)" type in Clash, which represents values [0..n-1] |
| 04:54:17 | <haskellbridge> | <Axman6> so writing "32 :: Index 32" should fail at compile time/GHCi |
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| 04:54:43 | <haskellbridge> | <Axman6> I'm wondering if it's possible to make writing "32 :: Index 32" a type error |
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| 04:59:39 | <Leary> | Perhaps you can write something like `instance n < 32 => Num (Index n)`, then `fromInteger @(Index _) :: n < 32 => Int -> Index n`. |
| 04:59:48 | <Leary> | Otherwise, there's validated-literals. |
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| 05:00:28 | <Leary> | Integer* |
| 05:02:58 | <Leary> | Err, ignore that first suggestion, I had a thinko. |
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| 07:39:18 | <haskellbridge> | <Axman6> Yeah, that's kind of the opposite of what I want. I want "instance (n' < n) => Num' (Index n) where fromInteger' :: Proxy n' -> Index n" - I want to pass in the literal the user has written, so "40 :: Index 32" means "fromInteger' (Proxy @40) :: Index 32" which would fail to compile because there's no instance for "40 < 32 => Num' (Index 32)" |
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| 14:13:11 | <yin> | is exhaustiveness in haskell decideable? |
| 14:13:32 | <ncf> | yin: what do you mean by exhaustiveness? |
| 14:15:25 | <yin> | checking exhaustive case handling in pattern matches |
| 14:17:37 | <ncf> | presumably no if you include guards or view patterns, and yes otherwise |
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| 14:24:37 | <int-e> | GADTs (or even just existentials) add complications too (a constraint embedded in a constructor may be unsatisfiable) |
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| 14:28:33 | <ncf> | i guess this is agda's "i'm not sure if there should be a case for the constructor..." error message |
| 14:28:57 | <ncf> | are existentials really problematic already? i don't immediately see how they could lead to undecidable unification problems |
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| 14:31:29 | <int-e> | data Eq a b where CEq :: a ~ b => Eq gives you an arbitrary unification problem depending on what a and b are when matching CEq, no? |
| 14:32:48 | <int-e> | You may still be right... |
| 14:33:07 | <ncf> | oh yeah i'm just not sure i would call that an existential |
| 14:34:25 | <ncf> | like the source of undecidability here is the equality constraint |
| 14:35:04 | <ncf> | (which i guess is the quintessential GADT) |
| 14:38:23 | <int-e> | Yeah I guess if all your constraints are ordinary typeclasses then the open nature of those saves you from having to unify anything... |
| 14:38:26 | <int-e> | tricky |
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| 15:25:32 | <ashkan81> | Hello everyone. Shouldn't this be impossible : `instance (MonadReader a m, MonadReader b m) => ... ` due to `m -> r` in `MonadReader` ? |
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| 15:26:58 | <ashkan81> | Looks like my ghc-9.6.7 is more than happy to compile this (to me) impossible constraint and even run the code. I'm wondering what am I missing here ... |
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| 15:31:53 | <ashkan81> | Actually got my answer from Claude: in case `a ~ b` this can be satisfied so ghc compiles this but if you actually try to call it (I haven't yet) in a way that can't satisfy the constraint, then it complains. Makes sense +1 |
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| 15:40:15 | <ncf> | another way to say this is that the constraint is equivalent to (MonadReader a m, a ~ b) |
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| 15:54:01 | <dolio> | I don't know if things have changed in this regard, but it used to be the case that they would not work quite the same. |
| 15:54:53 | <dolio> | Like, you would not be able to write `foo :: (MonadReader a m, MonadReader b m) => a -> m b ; foo x = pure x` |
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| 16:16:04 | <ncf> | huh |
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| 16:35:09 | <monochrom> | I can see that 99% of the time the programmer intends a and b to be different, so warning/erring early is more helpful than logicing it out. |
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| 16:35:48 | <monochrom> | But I'm a logician, so if someone says "everyone loves my baby, but my baby loves only me" then I deduce "so you are your baby, what's the problem?" :) |
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| 16:49:46 | <ncf> | ... that doesn't follow, does it |
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| 16:53:17 | <monochrom> | 0. forall x. x loves baby. So baby loves baby. 1. forall x. if baby loves x, x = me. |
| 16:56:32 | <ncf> | oh |
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All times are in UTC on 2025-08-14.