Logs on 2025-08-15 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:29:22 | <ackthet> | i know people hate this question but where do people recommend getting started w/ haskell? background in C++, now mostly rust dev. non-tradiation CS background (technically physicist). I like to learn via explanation -> example (rust book i found was a good mix) |
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| 00:33:46 | <jreicher> | I think Learn You a Good Haskell is still good? |
| 00:34:12 | <jreicher> | Sorry mangled that title |
| 00:34:45 | <jreicher> | https://learnyouahaskell.github.io/ |
| 00:39:24 | <yegor> | i guess that means it's no good after all |
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| 00:41:05 | <jreicher> | It can be used for good. Would be interesting to see it used for evil though. I'm curious about that now. |
| 00:43:37 | <geekosaur> | Anduril, by repute |
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| 00:49:03 | <jreicher> | They're using Haskell? |
| 00:49:17 | <jreicher> | I guess Jane Street might be considered a little evil too. |
| 00:49:49 | <jreicher> | Oh actually they might be on ocaml. I should check |
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| 00:51:40 | <geekosaur> | they're ocaml |
| 00:51:50 | <geekosaur> | mutant ocaml, is my understanding |
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| 01:09:15 | <probie> | My understanding is the Jane Street is on regular OCaml, but with a different standard library (e.g. it'd be like Haskell, but with relude) |
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| 01:30:07 | <haskellbridge> | <Jack> As a side note, alternative preludes are so cool. I wish every language had them |
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| 01:31:05 | <jreicher> | I've never thought about that, but it makes a lot of sense. I wonder if Kent Recursive Calculator had it. |
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| 01:38:30 | <jreicher> | Yep it did. The -l arg. |
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| 09:29:34 | <ackthet> | I feel like LYAH teaches you the syntax but not the complex topics |
| 09:29:46 | <ackthet> | thats just my impression. i tried it many years ago. |
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| 09:44:28 | <ncf> | i still recommend the wikibook https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell |
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| 10:13:34 | <merijn> | ackthet: LYAH is not a particularly pedagogically solid book |
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| 10:14:06 | <merijn> | It's culturally significant in that it was the first accessible intro text to Haskell when it was written and thus got a lot of people into Haskell |
| 10:14:19 | <merijn> | But it's not particularly good from an education point of view |
| 10:14:25 | Lycurgus | lmao's |
| 10:14:29 | <merijn> | for exactly the reason you give and many others |
| 10:14:41 | <merijn> | Not to mention being rather out-of-date by now |
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| 10:16:25 | <probie> | I found Real World Haskell a much better introduction, but it simply didn't age well |
| 10:16:32 | <int-e> | I hate the LYAH title so much. |
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| 10:18:16 | <Lycurgus> | interesting that the auther let's it go offline, doesn apparently care |
| 10:18:40 | <Lycurgus> | i srsly doubt anything else he's done has had a comparable impact |
| 10:18:43 | <probie> | It's not like hosting is free |
| 10:18:50 | <merijn> | probie: I mean, it kinda is |
| 10:18:50 | <int-e> | (Would you buy a Haskell book whose title doesn't even type-check? (I know it's freely available too. I've read a few bits and they seemed... okay.)) |
| 10:19:21 | <Lycurgus> | *author |
| 10:19:22 | <merijn> | Hosting a site like LYAH, completely static, no updates, that's a few bucks a month |
| 10:19:34 | <Lycurgus> | *lets |
| 10:19:34 | <merijn> | Lycurgus: Life happens |
| 10:20:10 | <Lycurgus> | sure, but that's his magnum opus so far |
| 10:20:26 | <yushyin> | i liked the simple "A Gentle Introduction to Haskell" tutorial |
| 10:20:33 | <int-e> | (And when I use present tense I'm referring to the unofficial https://learnyouahaskell.github.io/ ) |
| 10:20:52 | <Lycurgus> | maybe he was sensitive to the haters and has academic or other pretensions which it embarasses |
| 10:20:58 | <merijn> | @quote gentle.intro |
| 10:20:58 | <lambdabot> | Brend says: Whoever chose the title "A Gentle Introduction to Haskell" is obviously accustomed to wrestling bears in piranha pits or something. |
| 10:21:16 | <int-e> | yushyin: it's kind of inaccessible if you don't have a solid CS background |
| 10:21:23 | <int-e> | "gentle" |
| 10:22:44 | <Lycurgus> | i'm banned from the official chat channel on this network for usin u and ur and stuff |
| 10:22:58 | <Lycurgus> | but specifically "u" |
| 10:23:15 | <int-e> | sounds fair to me :P |
| 10:23:28 | <Lycurgus> | >: |
| 10:23:56 | <yushyin> | int-e: true, but with CS or programming background, I found it short and concise enough to quickly learn the basics and then be able to read other resources |
| 10:24:25 | <probie> | Lycurgus: It's a thing he once wrote to help people learn Haskell. Why should he be expected to maintain it in perpetuity for free? |
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| 10:25:34 | <Lycurgus> | if u have a property which is well known and used it's in your interest to maintain it |
| 10:25:51 | <int-e> | yushyin: Right. s/gentle/concise/ and I'm on board. It's useful and covers a significant amount of ground, if you can follow along with it. |
| 10:26:00 | <Lycurgus> | i image the paper book is still selling |
| 10:26:10 | <Lycurgus> | *imagine |
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| 10:51:30 | <int-e> | Lycurgus: It is still selling, yeah. But it hasn't been updated since 2011. (Hmm. ebook for $36, print book only $9 more? That's an interesting pricing scheme... maybe they printed too many and still have some in stock.) |
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| 16:25:42 | <spew> | I think Hutton is the best introduction but it's certainly not enough on its own to write useful haskell |
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| 16:26:14 | <spew> | Hutton followed by haskell in depth is the best you can get imo |
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| 16:42:45 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> ackthet see also https://joyful.com/Haskell+minimap |
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| 17:40:46 | <EvanR> | basic haskell being enough to write useful haskell might be a library issue |
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| 20:27:01 | <Leary> | I doubt "not enough to write useful Haskell" is fair, whether with respect to our books or our libraries; I wrote Haskell that was useful to me before I knew anything of either. |
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| 20:36:31 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
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| 20:44:31 | <EvanR> | me too! |
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| 21:10:08 | <davros1> | Hello. I haven't touched haskell for a long time but was just reflecting on how it was inspiring |
| 21:10:42 | <davros1> | I remember the debates in rust where people wanted to add currying |
| 21:11:03 | <davros1> | And some people want hkt |
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| 21:11:54 | <geekosaur> | it strikes me that for a Rust-like language a method that applies something and returns a lambda might make more sense |
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| 21:13:48 | <geekosaur> | although I gotta wonder about lifetime handling (obviously the lifetime of the lambda must be capped by the lifetime of the applied parameter, but without losing the lifetime of the thing it's being applied to) |
| 21:14:02 | <geekosaur> | my rist is still a bit too weak to figure how they deal with that |
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| 21:15:59 | <int-e> | The lambda can take ownership of parameters if they're moved, or the lifetime of the lambda can be capped as you said. You can run into thorny lifetime issues with `async` because of that. |
| 21:16:40 | <geekosaur> | right |
| 21:18:14 | <davros1> | No currying is right for most functions in rust, but I do think it would be useful for operators |
| 21:18:28 | <davros1> | Most 'systemsy' functions are not |
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| 21:20:20 | <geekosaur> | except that most (all?) operators are methods in traits underneath, no? |
| 21:20:28 | <davros1> | sure |
| 21:20:37 | <int-e> | but rust also is about making allocations explicit and implicit currying would violate that |
| 21:20:48 | <davros1> | But traits are just ways of organising functions most of the time |
| 21:20:48 | <int-e> | anyway, I'm not sure this is quite the right channel? :) |
| 21:20:52 | <int-e> | (not a complaint) |
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| 21:21:33 | <davros1> | Anyway my original question was who is using haskell seriously & for what sort of things |
| 21:21:47 | <geekosaur> | define seriously? |
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| 21:22:02 | <geekosaur> | I'm a cabal maintainer and user, and an xmonad maintainer and user |
| 21:22:14 | <davros1> | I remember there was a point where mr carmack was suggesting you should be able to do games in haskell but that sounded a bit far fetched (but he usually knows what he's talking about) |
| 21:22:16 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> I'm using it as to power my Window Manager. |
| 21:22:38 | <davros1> | He probably just meant gameplay cod |
| 21:22:48 | <davros1> | code^ like using it as a game scripting langauge |
| 21:23:14 | <davros1> | I also do remember 'monadius' as one of the haskell demos |
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| 21:25:46 | <geekosaur> | there've been a few (Frag is infamous, but was a moonshot) |
| 21:26:33 | <geekosaur> | and in the other direction elliott started writing a bot to play (an old version of) DCSSS but never finished it |
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| 21:32:18 | <geekosaur> | sorry, not elliott, rwbarton. https://github.com/rwbarton/rw |
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| 21:33:19 | <geekosaur> | sadly, crawl as changed so much since it was written that it would have no chance of working now even if it'd been complete |
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| 21:35:11 | <geekosaur> | *has |
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| 21:41:40 | <int-e> | > let ꙮ = 'ꙮ' in text $ replicate 3 ꙮ |
| 21:41:42 | <lambdabot> | ꙮꙮꙮ |
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| 21:57:40 | <monochrom> | I think people say "useful" when they mean "makes money". |
| 21:59:01 | <monochrom> | I wrote a lot of basic Haskell code, useful for me own use, but didn't make a lot of money. |
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| 22:02:33 | <monochrom> | (A little. I teach computer science. I use Haskell to check my own answers because I can't trust my own C code or Java code for example.) |
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| 22:14:49 | <spew> | no i didn't mean makes money |
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| 22:26:58 | <ackthet> | so speaking of the gentle intro to haskell... what was LANL doing with haskell? |
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| 22:27:58 | <ackthet> | oh shit, he was on Fermi? https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/Joseph-Fasel-39908001 |
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| 22:50:49 | <ackthet> | small world |
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