Logs on 2025-08-19 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:30:23 | <monochrom> | haha pavonia |
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| 02:25:19 | <Axman6> | sshine: I endorse this and I want to hear the results |
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| 03:03:05 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
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| 13:11:08 | <Athas> | Does 'base', or anything else, have a type for lists of length 2 (or 3, whatever) that is an instance of Applicative? |
| 13:12:06 | <__monty__> | I assume (,) does not qualify as a list? |
| 13:12:30 | <Athas> | No, because it is not monomorphic in the elements. |
| 13:12:38 | <Athas> | In particular, it means the Applicative instance isn't what I want. |
| 13:12:59 | <Athas> | I want: data Pair a = MkPair a a |
| 13:13:00 | <Athas> | instance Functor Pair where fmap f (Pair x y) = Pair (f x) (f y) |
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| 13:15:43 | <Leary> | Athas: We have `Product Identity Identity`. |
| 13:16:15 | <Leary> | (in base) |
| 13:16:32 | <Leary> | 'linear' has `V2` & `V3`. |
| 13:17:47 | <Athas> | Ah yes, I did find Product, but I think the functor-polymorphic type put me off. |
| 13:17:54 | <Athas> | Maybe I should check whether it is really so annoying to use. |
| 13:17:56 | <Leary> | Oh, and `Bool ->`/`Ordering ->`. :) |
| 13:19:48 | <Athas> | This is surprisingly not so bad. |
| 13:20:27 | <__monty__> | What's the motivation for (,)'s Functor implementation? Both options seem equally valid (though maybe the less general option is actually more useful) which seems very similar to the situation with Monoid for Bool. |
| 13:20:47 | <Athas> | I think it is because (,) is also the Reader monad. |
| 13:21:46 | <sshine> | what motivated the Haskell language designers to make a Total Recall (.).(.) operator? |
| 13:22:40 | <__monty__> | That's a bird, clearly not an operator defined by the Haskell committee. |
| 13:23:10 | <sshine> | I agree, it is too artistic to be designed by committee. |
| 13:23:12 | <Athas> | I once read an explanation that the design of type classes (canonicity, problems with orphans) strongly encourage that a type implement a type class in the most general way (although sometimes this is ambiguous), and that *if* a type can possibly have a law-abiding instance, then it *must* have it. |
| 13:23:32 | <Athas> | This is what leads to the somewhat unfortunate Foldable instance for (,) and the Monad instance for (->). |
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| 13:25:05 | <__monty__> | Does it though? Because I don't see how flipping the instances for (,) doesn't fulfil the requirements. |
| 13:25:25 | <Athas> | What do you mean by "flipping"? |
| 13:25:25 | <Leary> | __monty__: The `Functor` instance `(,) a` has is the only one it can have. What do you think the other one should be? |
| 13:25:26 | <__monty__> | It's a fine argument for not restricting the type to (a,a). |
| 13:26:59 | <sshine> | I like Rust's approach better by not allowing orphan instances, and by working around them in all sorts of practical ways, like defining `From` instead of `Into`, and `impl Distribution<T> for Standard` (where Distribution and Standard live in the same crate, and T is foreign) |
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| 13:30:08 | <__monty__> | Leary: Maybe my problem is not understanding why the kind passed to Functor is restricted to * -> *. |
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| 13:33:01 | <Leary> | Well, `Functor` was indeed a mistake. It should have been `class (Category c, Category d) => Functor c d f where { map :: c i j -> d (f i) (f j) }`. |
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| 13:42:26 | <sshine> | Leary, is that class defined somewhere? |
| 13:42:34 | <sshine> | as in some library |
| 13:42:52 | <Leary> | Probably, but not that I'm aware of. |
| 13:49:36 | <Athas> | I think I'm OK with the Prelude Functor. |
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| 15:23:02 | <merijn> | Athas: FYI, I ended up defining my own Pair in the past and just deriving Functor/Traversable |
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| 15:26:02 | <Athas> | merijn: yes, I think I will also do that eventually, mostly so I don't have to unpack those Identity constructors. |
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| 17:37:21 | × | nrsaheo^ quits (~nrsaheo@108-203-208-17.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 19:29:03 | × | vanishingideal quits (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Quit: leaving) |
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| 19:41:59 | × | gawen quits (~gawen@user/gawen) (Quit: cya) |
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| 19:50:55 | × | wbrawner quits (~wbrawner@static.56.224.132.142.clients.your-server.de) (Server closed connection) |
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| 20:17:16 | × | potatoe quits (~potatoe@157-131-120-242.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Server closed connection) |
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| 20:34:18 | × | omniman quits (~omniman@user/omniman) (Quit: Client closed) |
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| 20:40:46 | × | Unicorn_Princess quits (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:42:56 | × | olivial quits (~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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| 20:51:01 | × | athan quits (~athan@syn-174-106-168-248.res.spectrum.com) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 20:51:57 | → | olivial joins (~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) |
| 20:51:59 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 20:56:41 | × | olivial quits (~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 20:57:46 | rvalue- | is now known as rvalue |
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| 21:22:48 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 21:36:29 | × | Angelz quits (Angelz@angelz.oddprotocol.org) (Server closed connection) |
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| 21:45:19 | × | wootehfoot quits (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 22:48:55 | × | mreh quits (~matthew@host86-146-25-68.range86-146.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
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| 22:57:00 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Client Quit) |
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| 23:03:07 | × | danso quits (~danso@user/danso) (Server closed connection) |
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| 23:04:16 | × | haskellbridge quits (~hackager@syn-096-028-224-214.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 23:19:25 | × | m1dnight_ quits (~m1dnight@109.236.62.22) (Server closed connection) |
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| 23:22:33 | × | sprotte24 quits (~sprotte24@p200300d16f445500910c90280ba239a5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
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| 23:31:22 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
| 23:33:12 | × | haskellbridge quits (~hackager@syn-096-028-224-214.res.spectrum.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:33:22 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 23:33:39 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 23:36:37 | × | sp1ff quits (~user@c-24-21-190-184.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 23:36:59 | → | haskellbridge joins (~hackager@syn-096-028-224-214.res.spectrum.com) |
| 23:36:59 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
| 23:37:03 | × | acidjnk quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171905d82a82feba3d589b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
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| 23:49:45 | × | rekahsoft quits (~rekahsoft@174.95.4.83) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:51:22 | → | rekahsoft joins (~rekahsoft@bras-base-orllon1103w-grc-15-174-95-4-83.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:59:39 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
All times are in UTC on 2025-08-19.