Logs on 2025-08-20 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 01:31:07 | <ludat15> | hello everyone, I was researching and I couldn't find anything about it, is there any support for the wasm backend in stack? |
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| 01:34:10 | <glguy> | ludat15, I haven't tried, but just looking at https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/wasm.html "There isn’t a GHC option which allows you to use a stock GHC installed via ghcup or stack to generate wasm." |
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| 01:38:58 | <haskellbridge> | <maerwald> Not yet |
| 01:39:38 | <haskellbridge> | <maerwald> IOG is working on retargetable cross |
| 01:39:53 | <haskellbridge> | <maerwald> But not sure when it's in a state to be upstreamable |
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| 01:42:50 | <ludat15> | oh ok, thanks! |
| 01:42:57 | <geekosaur> | there's some very preliminary support in cabal, but don't be surprised if it has limitations or bugs because it hasn't gotten much in the way of testing as yet (and in particular we don't have any wasm building or testing in our CI yet; contributors welcome though) |
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| 01:59:58 | <ludat15> | cool thanks again for the details, I had the idea that this was much further along than what it actually is, thanks for the clarification |
| 02:00:38 | <ludat15> | is there a link where I could contribute to that? I have some experience with gitlabci |
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| 02:23:12 | <geekosaur> | cabal is on github, not gitlab |
| 02:23:28 | <geekosaur> | and wasm is still fairly early even in ghc, much less tooling support |
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| 02:29:05 | <geekosaur> | (tbh I think most of us have been waiting for ghc wasm to settle down a bit before trying to support it properly. but see for example https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/10923 |
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| 02:46:57 | <Guest6229> | what is a combinator? |
| 02:50:50 | <geekosaur> | a function designed to be combined with other functions in some fashion |
| 02:51:10 | <geekosaur> | as a parameter applied to something, in a chain of function applications, etc. |
| 02:51:19 | <geekosaur> | it's pretty loose |
| 02:51:45 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> Like (.) or on |
| 02:53:32 | <Leary> | There is a strict definition, but it's more often used loosely. "A combinator is a higher-order function that uses only function application and earlier defined combinators to define a result from its arguments." |
| 02:56:02 | <geekosaur> | you can define combinators in other languages, but FP languages generally make them a lot more convenient, so they get used widely |
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| 02:58:15 | <Guest6229> | Control.Monad.fix is Y combinator? |
| 02:58:34 | <geekosaur> | a special purpose combinator, but yes |
| 02:59:17 | <geekosaur> | well, it's as close as we can get to it; strictly speaking, the Y combinator can't be typed and only exists in itsd purest form within the untyped lambda calculus |
| 02:59:20 | <geekosaur> | *its |
| 02:59:30 | <Leary> | Not really. `Data.Function.fix` is Haskell's equivalent of the Y combinator, but it's not actually implemented as such. |
| 02:59:46 | <Leary> | And you can type Y with newtypes. |
| 03:00:41 | <Leary> | The real issue with it is runaway "simplification" (and non-sharing). |
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| 03:02:57 | <jreicher> | Guest6229: In the formalisms it is a function that has its own reduction rule |
| 03:03:21 | <jreicher> | But in the translation to lambda calculus it's usually used to mean a lambda abstraction of a certain form |
| 03:03:33 | <Guest6229> | Y = λf. (λx.f (x x)) (λx.f (x x)) turn this to haskell is Y = \f -> (\x -> f (x x)) (\x -> f (x x))? |
| 03:04:17 | <jreicher> | That's a lambda "equivalent" of the Y combinator. In combinator calculus it is no more and no less than Y f -> f (Y f). It has that reduction rule. |
| 03:04:19 | <Guest6229> | but in haskell fix f = let x = f x in x |
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| 03:13:58 | <geekosaur> | let is recursive, so it incorporates the recursion in the combinator calculus version automatically. (That is, the `x` on both sides of the `=` are the same, so Haskell keeps solving for that `x`) |
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| 03:18:21 | <jreicher> | I haven't looked, but I'm pretty sure Haskell would be building a circular data structure for it too. |
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| 03:19:43 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> fix is useful |
| 03:19:58 | <Guest6229> | examples? |
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| 03:20:45 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> factorial n = fix (\f -> if n == 0 then 1 else f (n - 1) * n) |
| 03:21:54 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> I'm sure there are other examples out there. But much like Haskell itself, I'm a lazy lady |
| 03:22:50 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> I also like doing dumb things like: |
| 03:23:26 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> ones = fix (\x -> cycle (1 : x)) |
| 03:23:58 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> > fix (\x -> cycle (1 : x)) |
| 03:24:12 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> Looks like lambdabot doesn't like bridged messages. |
| 03:24:33 | <Leary> | > fix (1:) |
| 03:24:35 | <lambdabot> | [1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1... |
| 03:26:12 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> fibs = fix (scanl (+) 0 . (1:)) |
| 03:26:28 | <haskellbridge> | <iqubic (she/her)> Don't ask me why that works. I don't know. |
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| 03:53:55 | <jcarpenter2> | I'm going to try out ghcprofview-hs |
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| 03:56:03 | <jcarpenter2> | well heck, it didn't build lol |
| 03:56:20 | <jcarpenter2> | hmmmmmmmm |
| 03:56:38 | <jcarpenter2> | I wonder how long it would take me to write a GUI utility. |
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| 05:43:06 | <dminuoso> | <iqubic (she/her)> I'm sure there are other examples out there. But much like Haskell itself, I'm a lazy lady |
| 05:43:13 | <dminuoso> | Obligatory CCC: https://ro-che.info/ccc/11 |
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| 09:02:09 | <yin> | jreicher: y = \f -> (\x -> f $ x x) (\x -> f $ x x) -- does not typecheck |
| 09:02:23 | <yin> | jreicher: y = \f -> g g where f $ x x -- does not typecheck |
| 09:02:48 | <yin> | jreicher: y f = f $ g g where g x = f $ x x -- does not typecheck |
| 09:03:08 | <yin> | jreicher: y f = f $ y f |
| 09:03:21 | yin | waves hands |
| 09:03:23 | <yin> | magic |
| 09:05:54 | <Leary> | yin: https://gist.github.com/LSLeary/4c7f3ab7622d991cfa22c36efbaf0674 |
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| 09:20:38 | <yin> | Leary: nice. my intuition is to do it like this https://paste.jrvieira.com/1755681564409 |
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| 09:56:24 | <yin> | (i just notices i messed up the second non-typechecking step) |
| 09:57:03 | <yin> | should be `y f = g g where g x = f $ x x` |
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| 13:10:29 | <kuribas> | :t fix |
| 13:10:30 | <lambdabot> | (a -> a) -> a |
| 13:12:10 | <int-e> | % import Data.Function |
| 13:12:11 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 13:12:17 | <int-e> | % pure (1:) |
| 13:12:18 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 13:12:20 | <int-e> | % fix it |
| 13:12:20 | <yahb2> | [1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,... |
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| 13:32:21 | <yin> | wait. what? |
| 13:32:29 | <yin> | :t pure (1:) |
| 13:32:30 | <lambdabot> | (Applicative f, Num a) => f ([a] -> [a]) |
| 13:32:48 | <yin> | > take 10 $ fix (pure (1:)) |
| 13:32:50 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 13:32:50 | <lambdabot> | • Couldn't match type ‘[a0] -> [a0]’ with ‘[a]’ |
| 13:32:50 | <lambdabot> | Expected type: [a] -> [a] |
| 13:33:01 | <yin> | does `it` get rit of the `pure`? |
| 13:33:08 | <yin> | s/rit/rid |
| 13:33:19 | <dutchie> | weird defaulting rules? |
| 13:33:30 | <yin> | defaulting to what? |
| 13:33:51 | <dutchie> | :t fix (pure (1:)) |
| 13:33:52 | <lambdabot> | Num a => [a] -> [a] |
| 13:33:52 | <int-e> | yin: ghci binds `it` to the result of the last action. The `pure` puts the value into IO so that ghci doesn't attempt to print it. |
| 13:35:18 | <int-e> | If the expression is not an IO action, ghci will wrap it in `print`. (I don't know how exactly this works in detail.) |
| 13:35:59 | <yin> | > pure print |
| 13:36:01 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 13:36:01 | <lambdabot> | • Ambiguous type variable ‘f0’ arising from a use of ‘show_M471017818634... |
| 13:36:01 | <lambdabot> | prevents the constraint ‘(Show |
| 13:36:22 | <int-e> | so you get two different behavior. 1) the expression is an IO action, and ghci does the equivlane tof `it <- expr`, and 2) it's not, and ghci does the equivlane of `let it = expr; print it` |
| 13:36:32 | <int-e> | "it" is weird. |
| 13:36:51 | <yin> | weird it is |
| 13:36:53 | <int-e> | > fix (1:) |
| 13:36:54 | <lambdabot> | [1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1... |
| 13:37:40 | <int-e> | huh, "equivlane tof" -- that's a lot of transpositions |
| 13:38:09 | <yin> | my ghci doesn't complain about `pure print` and it gives it type `() -> IO ()` |
| 13:39:23 | <int-e> | right, that's defaulting the Show instance in Show a => a -> IO () |
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| 13:44:47 | <kilt> | i feel like this could be a scanl or something more elegant but i'm getting my head in a knot |
| 13:44:50 | <kilt> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/eG961Z4A |
| 13:45:13 | <kilt> | right now m and n don't typecheck |
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| 13:46:55 | <kilt> | but the intention is clear i think |
| 13:49:00 | <kilt> | here's a working version |
| 13:49:02 | <kilt> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/cbKSu9qY |
| 13:49:47 | <int-e> | :t Data.Either.partitionEithers |
| 13:49:48 | <lambdabot> | [Either a b] -> ([a], [b]) |
| 13:51:12 | <yin> | int-e: that's nice! |
| 13:51:20 | <int-e> | (note the order of the results) |
| 13:52:32 | <kilt> | yes, but still my question is more about the general structure of the function |
| 13:53:22 | <kilt> | it feels like this could be a foldl or at least a scanl but i'm fighting my brain at this point |
| 13:54:06 | <yin> | what's Scan? |
| 13:55:06 | <kilt> | type Scan = [Point] ; match :: Scan -> Scan -> Either Scan Scan |
| 13:55:33 | <jreicher> | Someone has to write a "Fun with fixed points" blog entry after all this |
| 13:56:01 | <yin> | kilt: that <> can turn into a : to get rid of the concat, i think |
| 13:56:37 | <int-e> | kilt: without knowing anything about what `match` does this looks fine (though potentially expensive or even non-terminating) |
| 13:57:08 | <int-e> | well, `nub` is a bit of a red flag when it comes to performance, too |
| 13:58:11 | <yin> | wait nvm |
| 13:58:46 | <int-e> | recursive calls of `go` can have non-singleton lists as arguments for ms, I think. |
| 13:59:00 | <yin> | yep i was wrong |
| 13:59:23 | <kilt> | it feels so much like a scanl |
| 14:00:31 | <int-e> | kilt: So two answers. 1) that code looks fine to me for what it is. 2) there's a good chance that this isn't the best algorithm for what you're actually doing, but I don't know what the task is. |
| 14:02:52 | <kilt> | i'm solving https://adventofcode.com/2021/day/19 : https://paste.tomsmeding.com/HHbUgiGp |
| 14:04:35 | <kilt> | wellm, trying to... |
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| 14:26:10 | <int-e> | kilt: looks superficially correct. here's a problem in the details: \(x,y,z) -> (x,z,y) is a reflection |
| 14:27:02 | <int-e> | (same for the other two odd permutations) |
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| 15:00:45 | <kilt> | so is it |
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| 18:32:50 | <[exa]> | is there any methodologica aplroach that would allow people to somehow easily add variable scoping rules into parsers? (e.g., the output of such "improved" parsing would be able to tell that uses of same-named local variable in different functions are indeed using a different identifier and may be renamed independently) |
| 18:33:10 | <[exa]> | *methodological approach |
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| 23:24:32 | → | peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) |
| 23:25:24 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:29:27 | → | athan joins (~athan@syn-174-106-168-248.res.spectrum.com) |
| 23:29:59 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 23:30:51 | → | machinedgod joins (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 23:38:07 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 23:40:53 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:45:18 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 23:50:19 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:50:49 | × | acidjnk quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e71719730951ec550b463772.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 23:51:47 | × | sprotte24 quits (~sprotte24@p200300d16f4b9400fd84056b8dbc8704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 23:53:48 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@syn-047-229-123-186.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 23:54:55 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 23:55:03 | → | mrvdb- joins (~mrvdb@2001:19f0:5000:8582:5400:ff:fe07:3df5) |
| 23:55:37 | × | mrvdb quits (~mrvdb@2001:19f0:5000:8582:5400:ff:fe07:3df5) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:57:36 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
All times are in UTC on 2025-08-20.