Logs on 2025-08-31 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:00:35 | → | cherryramatisdev joins (~cherryram@user/cherryramatisdev) |
| 00:03:01 | × | nitrix quits (~nitrix@user/meow/nitrix) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 00:03:12 | → | nitrix_ joins (~nitrix@user/meow/nitrix) |
| 00:04:54 | nitrix_ | is now known as nitrix |
| 00:06:54 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:11:27 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 00:14:37 | × | arandombit quits (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 00:16:17 | × | sprotte24 quits (~sprotte24@p200300d16f0ac200e06f0b6c8afccdb8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 00:17:30 | → | arandombit joins (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:897e:7eec:3ee8:cb5) |
| 00:17:30 | × | arandombit quits (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:897e:7eec:3ee8:cb5) (Changing host) |
| 00:17:30 | → | arandombit joins (~arandombi@user/arandombit) |
| 00:19:29 | → | Lycurgus joins (~juan@user/Lycurgus) |
| 00:20:02 | × | img quits (~img@user/img) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) |
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| 00:22:53 | → | img joins (~img@user/img) |
| 00:26:57 | × | lukec quits (9dfd4d094e@2a03:6000:1812:100::10e) (Server closed connection) |
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| 00:27:38 | × | acidjnk quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171918ad9b21b318fd8019.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 00:29:05 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 00:31:19 | × | arandombit quits (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 00:38:05 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:38:19 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 00:40:18 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:41:07 | × | califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 00:42:15 | → | califax joins (~califax@user/califx) |
| 00:45:19 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 00:46:20 | × | EvanR quits (~EvanR@user/evanr) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 00:46:28 | → | arandombit joins (~arandombi@user/arandombit) |
| 00:51:09 | × | jmcantrell_ quits (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 00:53:04 | → | jmcantrell_ joins (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) |
| 00:53:42 | × | arandombit quits (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 00:54:38 | → | arandombit joins (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:cf7:cd27:4171:92f) |
| 00:54:38 | × | arandombit quits (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:cf7:cd27:4171:92f) (Changing host) |
| 00:54:38 | → | arandombit joins (~arandombi@user/arandombit) |
| 00:54:44 | × | ttybitnik quits (~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Quit: Fading out...) |
| 00:55:49 | × | ljdarj quits (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 00:56:06 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:58:08 | → | EvanR joins (~EvanR@user/evanr) |
| 01:01:04 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 01:04:34 | × | arandombit quits (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 01:11:53 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:13:11 | → | ljdarj joins (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) |
| 01:13:53 | × | Square2 quits (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 01:16:07 | → | arandombit joins (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:cf7:cd27:4171:92f) |
| 01:16:07 | × | arandombit quits (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:cf7:cd27:4171:92f) (Changing host) |
| 01:16:07 | → | arandombit joins (~arandombi@user/arandombit) |
| 01:16:14 | × | Lycurgus quits (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org )) |
| 01:17:00 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 01:19:42 | × | Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-159-69-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 01:20:17 | × | arandombit quits (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 01:27:41 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:32:43 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 01:34:26 | → | arandombit joins (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:cf7:cd27:4171:92f) |
| 01:34:26 | × | arandombit quits (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:cf7:cd27:4171:92f) (Changing host) |
| 01:34:26 | → | arandombit joins (~arandombi@user/arandombit) |
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| 01:43:29 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:48:18 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 01:59:16 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:03:45 | × | fgarcia quits (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 02:04:32 | × | jmcantrell_ quits (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 02:05:04 | × | op_4 quits (~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 02:05:36 | → | op_4 joins (~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) |
| 02:06:04 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 02:06:24 | → | jmcantrell_ joins (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) |
| 02:09:50 | → | fgarcia joins (~lei@user/fgarcia) |
| 02:10:33 | → | amadaluzia joins (~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia) |
| 02:12:49 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@syn-172-222-149-049.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 02:15:20 | × | todi quits (~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 02:17:20 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:17:38 | × | cherryramatisdev quits (~cherryram@user/cherryramatisdev) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1) |
| 02:22:39 | → | segfaultfizzbuzz joins (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 02:22:43 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 02:26:55 | → | todi joins (~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:33:07 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:36:01 | × | Beowulf quits (florian@gabilgathol.bandrate.org) (Server closed connection) |
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| 02:38:09 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 02:46:03 | × | todi quits (~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 02:53:37 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
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| 03:14:13 | × | mustafa quits (sid502723@rockylinux/releng/mustafa) (Server closed connection) |
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| 03:18:13 | × | tcard quits (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:cf17:befc:ff82:5303) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 03:21:05 | → | elnegro joins (elnegro@r186-54-0-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 03:21:54 | → | tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:bd35:e832:d637:ba5c) |
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| 03:22:32 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:bd35:e832:d637:ba5c) (Client Quit) |
| 03:23:40 | × | elnegro quits (elnegro@r186-54-0-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Client Quit) |
| 03:24:06 | → | todi joins (~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:26:56 | → | elnegro joins (elnegro@r186-54-0-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 03:27:29 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 03:29:57 | × | todi quits (~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Max SendQ exceeded) |
| 03:37:55 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 03:40:54 | → | todi joins (~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:41:21 | × | elnegro quits (elnegro@r186-54-0-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 03:41:31 | × | segfaultfizzbuzz quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 03:44:59 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 03:45:04 | → | elnegro joins (elnegro@r186-54-0-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 03:45:39 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 03:48:48 | × | todi quits (~todi@p57803331.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 03:50:49 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 03:59:39 | × | echoreply quits (~echoreply@2001:19f0:9002:1f3b:5400:ff:fe6f:8b8d) (Server closed connection) |
| 04:00:03 | → | echoreply joins (~echoreply@2001:19f0:9002:1f3b:5400:ff:fe6f:8b8d) |
| 04:00:37 | × | elnegro quits (elnegro@r186-54-0-41.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 04:01:15 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 04:21:56 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 04:22:18 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 04:24:29 | → | humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) |
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| 04:36:53 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 04:37:52 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 04:40:30 | × | amadaluzia quits (~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 04:44:00 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@syn-172-222-149-049.res.spectrum.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
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| 04:57:31 | × | Fijxu quits (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Quit: XD!!) |
| 04:58:51 | × | weary-traveler quits (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 04:59:18 | → | Fijxu joins (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) |
| 04:59:41 | → | weary-traveler joins (~user@user/user363627) |
| 05:04:28 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 05:17:41 | → | segfaultfizzbuzz joins (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 05:20:13 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 05:27:26 | → | takuan joins (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) |
| 05:30:25 | × | segfaultfizzbuzz quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
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| 05:50:24 | × | segfaultfizzbuzz quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 05:54:05 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 06:02:35 | × | segfaultfizzbuzz quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 06:07:04 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 06:18:20 | × | haritz quits (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in) |
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| 06:47:25 | × | arandombit quits (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 06:51:47 | → | Guest94 joins (~Guest94@198.181.56.146.16clouds.com) |
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| 06:52:17 | × | Guest94 quits (~Guest94@198.181.56.146.16clouds.com) (Client Quit) |
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| 06:56:54 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 07:00:01 | × | caconym747 quits (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
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| 07:02:47 | × | marinelli quits (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 07:03:38 | × | arandombit quits (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:cf7:cd27:4171:92f) (Changing host) |
| 07:03:38 | → | arandombit joins (~arandombi@user/arandombit) |
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| 07:25:47 | jmcantrell_ | is now known as jmcantrell |
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| 07:33:24 | → | humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) |
| 07:34:12 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 07:34:59 | → | mcfrdy joins (~mcfrdy@user/mcfrdy) |
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| 07:38:24 | × | weary-traveler quits (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 07:42:14 | × | collide2954 quits (~collide29@user/collide2954) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
| 07:43:42 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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| 08:03:48 | × | Lord_of_Life quits (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 08:08:28 | ChanServ | sets mode +v lambdabot |
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| 08:26:56 | × | Lycurgus quits (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org )) |
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| 08:36:03 | Digitteknohippie | is now known as Digit |
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| 09:29:40 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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| 09:32:13 | ljdarj1 | is now known as ljdarj |
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| 09:44:24 | × | Sgeo_ quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 09:45:41 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 09:52:44 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:bd35:e832:d637:ba5c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
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| 10:03:08 | × | cpli quits (77fc530071@2a03:6000:1812:100::252) (Server closed connection) |
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| 10:07:31 | → | arandombit joins (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:cf7:cd27:4171:92f) |
| 10:07:31 | × | arandombit quits (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:cf7:cd27:4171:92f) (Changing host) |
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| 10:37:25 | × | pavonia quits (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
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| 10:45:45 | × | fgarcia quits (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 10:58:37 | × | sprotte24 quits (~sprotte24@p200300d16f15cf0019f42a7dc19cb9cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
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| 11:29:34 | Lord_of_Life_ | is now known as Lord_of_Life |
| 11:30:22 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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| 11:56:07 | × | arandombit quits (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:cf7:cd27:4171:92f) (Changing host) |
| 11:56:07 | → | arandombit joins (~arandombi@user/arandombit) |
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| 12:02:03 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 12:02:08 | → | oxapentane joins (~oxapentan@user/oxapentane) |
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| 12:09:51 | × | rvalue quits (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 12:10:48 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 12:46:22 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 13:03:40 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
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| 14:07:06 | <muhib> | hello. good evening, what was your favorite haskell implementation? I am trying to build a small Operating System on haskell. Haskell is my favourite language because it is succinct. |
| 14:08:42 | <humasect> | ghc |
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| 14:08:57 | <merijn> | muhib: tbh, there's really only one relevant one at this point |
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| 14:09:57 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> microhs is coming on rather strong |
| 14:15:51 | <sajenim> | do you think universities should teach haskell as intro to programming? |
| 14:15:55 | <muhib> | cool X) my initial thought was to build a nominal ide, which is what I shall pursue first. i learned haskell in London :] first task was to build a nim game. can't forget the rush of building things with such a scientific language. sorry I hope I am not disturbing. |
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| 14:17:14 | <muhib> | haskell is sacred to me actually, on a personal note. |
| 14:17:16 | <merijn> | sajenim: I'm not sure it should be the intro, but then again I'm not against it |
| 14:17:20 | <__monty__> | An IDE seems like a big task and an unnecessary distraction if what you're interested in is OS dev. |
| 14:17:52 | <__monty__> | I'd recommend not holding anything sacred. Use whatever's the best tool for the job. |
| 14:19:21 | <muhib> | on a personal note. might change if I master it. actually i see haskell as a gift from my first degree. |
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| 14:23:03 | <sajenim> | opinions on scala? |
| 14:23:51 | <sajenim> | that's the language our school teaches for 'programming paradigms' |
| 14:24:32 | <merijn> | sajenim: It's not Haskell, but it's ok |
| 14:24:46 | <merijn> | It's one of the languages I hate the least |
| 14:24:50 | <sajenim> | i would have loved to have seen haskell for that class |
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| 14:25:42 | <muhib59> | too expansive maybe, need to learn it with teachers later on. =D I left my cs degree before I could look at Julia, it was a flabbergasting surprise when I saw its code |
| 14:26:10 | <__monty__> | Haskell would probably not be as good a fit. I assume you went over OOP, Haskell doesn't facilitate that at all. |
| 14:26:42 | <sajenim> | i started with haskell as my first real language, just did oop with java this trimester and hated it |
| 14:26:50 | <sajenim> | it's like a wall of vomit |
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| 14:27:44 | <muhib59> | Actually I am a OOP person, love it so much that I quit it and started haskell |
| 14:28:23 | <sajenim> | julia looks interesting |
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| 14:30:06 | <merijn> | tbh, Java the language is not so bad |
| 14:30:12 | <muhib59> | Looking forward to Google Summer of Code this time. I never knew I would be exposed to so much knowledge online through IRC O:3 |
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| 14:30:19 | <merijn> | Java the code wirtten by other people on the other hand... |
| 14:30:51 | <sajenim> | i think part of why it was suffering is my teacher is an academic, i did java before |
| 14:31:00 | <sajenim> | and the teacher was industry that was less bad |
| 14:31:46 | <sajenim> | i personally preferred c# though |
| 14:32:03 | <__monty__> | Windows users? |
| 14:32:37 | <sajenim> | nah, just whilst learning, i wouldn't follow through with getting proficient at it |
| 14:32:53 | <sajenim> | at community college we did python c# and java |
| 14:33:10 | <muhib59> | yeah i am a OOP person because I had a fantastic teacher for that course. Could make a JAVA OOP e commerce website for money. Would that be a good idea? |
| 14:33:37 | <merijn> | I mean, there's about a billion of those already :p |
| 14:34:17 | <merijn> | Not to say you shouldn't, but if it's for money, then you gotta figure out why anyone would pay you instead of any of the others. And if it's for learning, you gotta figure out if that sparks joy] |
| 14:34:51 | <sajenim> | have you guys done discrete maths? i'm doing it rn and absolutely love it |
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| 14:41:44 | <muhib59> | Yes I love discrete maths. Wanted to learn everything in it for a while. Do you know if there is any discrete maths research anywhere? O:3 |
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| 14:52:42 | <muhib59> | my initial idea was to build a library that doesn't loan books. but in reality i want to sell english anthologies stealing ideas from my english degree university library X) O:3 |
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| 23:25:16 | <jreicher> | sajenim: No, I think Haskell is quite bad as a first language. I don't think anything with such an expressive type system should be a first language. |
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| 23:28:55 | <EvanR> | disagree |
| 23:29:17 | <EvanR> | I wish I had types in retrospect, in many situations |
| 23:29:29 | <twb> | Dumb question: when https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base64 talks about "optics" and "lenses", what does it mean? I've only seen "lens" in the context of augeas (an ocaml-y thing) configuration file parsers. |
| 23:29:33 | <monochrom> | Soon it will no longer matter. Prompt engineering will be the first and only language, like it or not. |
| 23:29:37 | <EvanR> | lol |
| 23:30:08 | <EvanR> | as soon as the AI code behind the scenes is written in "prompt" |
| 23:30:17 | <twb> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/optics-0.1/docs/Optics.html#g:2 loosk relevant |
| 23:31:06 | <monochrom> | Oh, Python not boostrapping itself in practice hasn't stopped a whole lot of people form using it as their first and only language. |
| 23:31:16 | <jreicher> | EvanR: FWIW I only hold this opinion for a first programming language. Later languages (and any serious work) should be typed. |
| 23:31:28 | <EvanR> | "my first and only language" vs "the only first and only language" |
| 23:32:00 | <monochrom> | Sure. Let me fix my sentence then! |
| 23:32:09 | <twb> | jreicher: "not typed" meaning weakly typed like bash and php, or *literally* untyped, so true, 1, "" and identity: x -> x are all literally identical |
| 23:32:12 | <monochrom> | Soon it will no longer matter. Prompt engineering will be the first and only language for most people, like it or not. |
| 23:32:25 | <EvanR> | I feel like we're already there |
| 23:32:53 | <EvanR> | people using free LLMs dwarfs programmers |
| 23:33:33 | <twb> | oh you mean "prompt engineering" as in LLM grifts, not "engineers who work quickly and efficiently" |
| 23:33:56 | <jreicher> | twb: I feel like it's a pretty thin line between untyped and types as weak as bash or PHP. |
| 23:34:38 | <twb> | jreicher: my general rule is that weakly typed code is OK if it's only going to run once |
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| 23:34:50 | <twb> | so e.g. I do not replace bash with ghci for interactive login shell |
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| 23:35:04 | <twb> | But I wouldn't write scripts in it that were good enough to commit in git |
| 23:35:10 | <jreicher> | twb: My rules is weakly typed code is OK if it's OK for it to not work. :) |
| 23:35:17 | <twb> | yeah exactly |
| 23:35:47 | <jreicher> | And that's pretty much why it's OK for a first programming language. |
| 23:35:52 | <twb> | and also anything over 80 bytes long must be strongly typed |
| 23:36:06 | <jreicher> | Writing something that doesn't work is a valuable learning experience. |
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| 23:36:20 | <monochrom> | I write typed code in my head, then perform type erasure when I spit out shell scripts or Lisp or Prolog or... |
| 23:37:02 | <monochrom> | On the upside, since the form just has to be in my head, it can be any arbitrarily undecidable dependent typing. |
| 23:37:11 | <monochrom> | s/form/former/ |
| 23:37:24 | <jreicher> | You could even do nondeterministic code that way. :p |
| 23:37:37 | <EvanR> | PHP, python, etc, is write only code |
| 23:37:39 | <EvanR> | ruby |
| 23:37:46 | <monochrom> | Perl |
| 23:38:10 | <monochrom> | I feel like Python is not too badly write-only. |
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| 23:39:02 | <twb> | monochrom: you can declaim types in lisp |
| 23:39:18 | <twb> | CL is "static typing later" not "static typing never" |
| 23:39:58 | <monochrom> | Not bothering. Lisp has other things that repel me. I will just use Haskell or Javascript. |
| 23:40:25 | <EvanR> | or the frankenlanguage purescript xD |
| 23:41:01 | <monochrom> | That whole "function binding vs variable binding" business. Perl repels me for the same reason. |
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All times are in UTC on 2025-08-31.