Logs on 2025-09-04 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:02:15 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:06:34 | × | zarakshR quits (~Thunderbi@host5-81-134-212.range5-81.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 00:07:08 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 00:16:37 | → | zarakshR joins (~Thunderbi@host5-81-134-212.range5-81.btcentralplus.com) |
| 00:17:37 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:21:07 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:21:22 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 00:22:20 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 00:25:57 | × | zarakshR quits (~Thunderbi@host5-81-134-212.range5-81.btcentralplus.com) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 00:26:12 | → | zarakshR joins (~Thunderbi@2a00:23c8:5bbb:e401::353) |
| 00:26:35 | × | zarakshR quits (~Thunderbi@2a00:23c8:5bbb:e401::353) (Client Quit) |
| 00:26:47 | → | zarakshR1 joins (~Thunderbi@host5-81-134-212.range5-81.btcentralplus.com) |
| 00:28:06 | × | otto_s quits (~user@p4ff278ce.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 00:31:00 | zarakshR1 | is now known as zarakshR |
| 00:31:17 | × | ttybitnik quits (~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Quit: Fading out...) |
| 00:33:01 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:37:07 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 00:40:00 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 00:46:08 | → | otto_s joins (~user@p5de2f76e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:49:25 | × | xff0x quits (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:7acf:f68c:d0d:6cb3) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 00:50:17 | → | rustisafungus joins (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 00:51:05 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:52:47 | × | zarakshR quits (~Thunderbi@host5-81-134-212.range5-81.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 00:54:30 | × | acidjnk quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171976182de2090fb12ade.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 00:55:23 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 01:01:17 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 01:01:31 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 01:04:42 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 01:06:28 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:06:30 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 01:10:30 | → | xff0x joins (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:5b6e:396c:57f4:ced4) |
| 01:11:10 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 01:12:52 | × | rustisafungus quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 01:15:42 | × | xff0x quits (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:5b6e:396c:57f4:ced4) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 01:24:21 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:28:44 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 01:31:41 | → | rustisafungus joins (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 01:35:26 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:35:49 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 01:38:56 | × | vanishingideal quits (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 01:39:58 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 01:40:34 | → | vanishingideal joins (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) |
| 01:50:49 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:55:22 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 02:03:03 | → | ftzm3 joins (~ftzm@085082238119.dynamic.telenor.dk) |
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| 02:04:33 | ftzm3 | is now known as ftzm |
| 02:06:11 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:09:32 | → | xff0x joins (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
| 02:10:35 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 02:10:43 | × | weary-traveler quits (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 02:11:39 | → | weary-traveler joins (~user@user/user363627) |
| 02:21:35 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:26:05 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 02:37:07 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:41:36 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 02:47:37 | → | cptaffe joins (~cptaffe@user/cptaffe) |
| 02:51:39 | × | rustisafungus quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 02:52:36 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:57:08 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 03:04:51 | → | rustisafungus joins (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 03:08:06 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 03:10:10 | × | rustisafungus quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 03:11:39 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:13:00 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 03:16:20 | × | Square3 quits (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 03:19:02 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 03:19:16 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 03:23:30 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 03:25:26 | → | aforemny joins (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cf2:cd00:fa12:c3d8:7e61:864c) |
| 03:25:44 | × | aforemny_ quits (~aforemny@2001:9e8:6cd5:4200:5433:65c2:adc9:91af) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 03:30:03 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 03:31:08 | × | xff0x quits (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 03:31:19 | × | rvalue quits (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) (Write error: error:80000068:system library::Connection reset by peer) |
| 03:31:48 | → | rvalue joins (~rvalue@about/hackers/rvalue) |
| 03:36:26 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 03:41:20 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 03:42:38 | × | rustisafungus quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 03:45:13 | × | dutchie quits (~dutchie@user/dutchie) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 03:46:18 | → | dutchie joins (~dutchie@user/dutchie) |
| 03:51:55 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 03:56:04 | × | vanishingideal quits (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 03:56:26 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 03:57:31 | → | vanishingideal joins (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) |
| 03:57:39 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 04:06:45 | × | amadaluzia quits (~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 04:07:19 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 04:11:49 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 04:19:36 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 04:19:50 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 04:22:42 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 04:26:09 | → | takuan joins (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) |
| 04:27:14 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 04:32:53 | × | gorignak quits (~gorignak@user/gorignak) (Quit: quit) |
| 04:37:25 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 04:42:03 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 04:42:08 | → | michalz joins (~michalz@185.246.207.222) |
| 04:46:16 | × | rustisafungus quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 04:49:05 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
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| 04:53:00 | × | amadaluzia quits (~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia) (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 04:57:19 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 05:02:45 | × | rustisafungus quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
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| 05:23:38 | → | chromoblob joins (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) |
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| 05:28:46 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 05:30:21 | × | rustisafungus quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 05:34:14 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 05:34:27 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 05:38:25 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 05:42:50 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 05:45:58 | → | rustisafungus joins (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 05:53:48 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 06:04:48 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 06:05:01 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 06:06:55 | → | mm_x_ joins (~mm@user/mm-x-:64963) |
| 06:09:11 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 06:10:04 | × | mm_x_ quits (~mm@user/mm-x-:64963) (Client Quit) |
| 06:15:45 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 06:20:00 | × | rustisafungus quits (~segfaultf@23-93-74-222.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 06:27:13 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 06:30:37 | × | ss4 quits (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 06:31:12 | × | potato44 quits (uid421314@id-421314.lymington.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 06:31:31 | → | peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@syn-172-222-149-049.res.spectrum.com) |
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| 06:31:59 | × | econo_ quits (uid147250@id-147250.tinside.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 06:32:03 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 06:33:09 | → | sroso joins (~sroso@user/SrOso) |
| 06:33:09 | × | poscat quits (~poscat@user/poscat) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 06:33:55 | × | Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 06:34:39 | → | Sgeo joins (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 06:39:26 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 06:43:57 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 06:44:15 | → | wootehfoot joins (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) |
| 06:54:50 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 06:56:46 | × | ft quits (~ft@p4fc2a25a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 07:00:02 | × | caconym747 quits (~caconym@user/caconym) (Quit: bye) |
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| 07:03:38 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 07:08:08 | [exa] | silently realizes that list of `These` is isomorphic to diffs |
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| 07:22:20 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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| 07:35:55 | × | Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 07:38:12 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 07:38:34 | × | Googulator75 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-28ad-f9f3-8649-eb89-633c.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 07:38:48 | → | Googulator75 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-28ad-f9f3-8649-eb89-633c.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 07:42:49 | → | Sgeo joins (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
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| 07:53:20 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
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| 08:09:58 | × | Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:15:17 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 08:19:47 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 08:20:18 | → | haritz joins (~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8) |
| 08:20:18 | × | haritz quits (~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8) (Changing host) |
| 08:20:18 | → | haritz joins (~hrtz@user/haritz) |
| 08:20:42 | × | sroso quits (~sroso@user/SrOso) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 08:23:30 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
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| 08:34:39 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-53-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 08:35:07 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
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| 14:20:11 | <bwe> | [exa]: (I've recently learned to use and like, maybe even love, These.) |
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| 14:35:19 | <bwe> | How do I pattern match (and differentiate) between empty and non-empty Data.Set? |
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| 14:36:29 | <mari51613> | with `toList` or `Set.null`? |
| 14:36:47 | <mari51613> | @hoogle Set -> Bool |
| 14:36:48 | <lambdabot> | Test.ChasingBottoms.IsBottom isBottom :: a -> Bool |
| 14:36:48 | <lambdabot> | Text.HTML.Tagchup.Tag.Match ignore :: a -> Bool |
| 14:36:48 | <lambdabot> | Text.Ascii isAscii :: Property IsAscii v => v -> Bool |
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| 15:03:57 | <EvanR> | Set.null would work but doesn't properly reflect the structure of the thing being scrutinzed |
| 15:04:32 | <EvanR> | toList has the heart in more of the right place but if you care about the contents you don't have a set anymore |
| 15:04:54 | <EvanR> | Set.splitRoot on the other hand is O(1) and gives you sets in case it's non empty |
| 15:05:41 | <EvanR> | Set.minView and maxView are probably more convenient but O(log n) |
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| 15:08:44 | <EvanR> | if there was a Set.NonEmpty, then smart constructing one from your Set could also be a handy way |
| 15:09:06 | <int-e> | splitRoot is morally impure |
| 15:10:40 | <int-e> | > map (Data.Set.Internal.splitRoot . S.fromList) [[1,2],[2,1]] |
| 15:10:41 | <lambdabot> | [[fromList [],fromList [1],fromList [2]],[fromList [1],fromList [2],fromList... |
| 15:11:21 | <bwe> | EvanR: there is: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/non-empty-0.3.5/docs/Data-NonEmpty-Set.html but the deconstructor is missing. |
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| 15:13:22 | <mari51613> | why is that impure int-e? I do not get it |
| 15:13:53 | <int-e> | mari51613: "morally" -- you can see that two equal sets result in two different outputs. |
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| 15:14:02 | <mari51613> | hm i see it returns an empty list for a non empty set |
| 15:14:17 | <EvanR> | what |
| 15:14:57 | <mari51613> | i mean as the first return value |
| 15:15:14 | <int-e> | mari51613: sure, that's odd, but that's not the issue I'm after |
| 15:15:31 | <int-e> | splitRoot exposes the tree structure of the set's representation |
| 15:15:40 | <EvanR> | yeah if your algorithm would be affected use maxView or minView |
| 15:16:12 | <int-e> | I'd use `null`. |
| 15:16:14 | int-e | shrugs |
| 15:16:26 | <EvanR> | if you don't care how the set gets split up the splitRoot works |
| 15:16:33 | <bwe> | I stick with | S.size mySet == 0 = -- guard style |
| 15:16:37 | <EvanR> | makes more sense than toList |
| 15:16:55 | <EvanR> | comparing a number to zero? o_O |
| 15:17:53 | <EvanR> | yeah if you really don't care about the structure if non-empty, then an if statement over null |
| 15:19:24 | <EvanR> | but like "pattern matching" makes me think you do |
| 15:19:41 | <bwe> | EvanR: | S.size mySet > 0 = -- is what I actually use now |
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| 15:20:18 | <ski> | (in Mercury, matching on data constructor of a type with user-defined equality (aka quotient type) is (committed-choice) nondeterministic (executing gives you one of the possible choices, possibly also affected by optimizations). you have to use the `promise_equivalent_solutions' pragma, at the point where the choice of representation no longer affects your answers) |
| 15:20:21 | <EvanR> | it reads fine but seems like a roundabout way to do it |
| 15:20:54 | <ski> | using `null' is more direct (possibly also more efficient ?) than using `size' |
| 15:21:49 | <mari51613> | min and maxView are cool, allow to recur on the rest of the set |
| 15:22:10 | <EvanR> | minView and maxView prove that the set is non-empty, if it is, and might be avoiding redundant work on your followup |
| 15:22:15 | <EvanR> | or not |
| 15:22:15 | <mari51613> | hm but you said they are log(n) |
| 15:22:36 | <EvanR> | yes it has to do some work to give you the remainder set |
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| 15:23:03 | <EvanR> | but you could avoid it through laziness |
| 15:23:07 | <EvanR> | don't look at the remainder |
| 15:27:25 | <tomsmeding> | a Set is a binary search tree, so minView and maxView have to do log(n) work to descend to the left-most, resp. right-most, leaf in the tree |
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| 15:28:25 | <tomsmeding> | constructing the remainder of the set is just _more_ log(n) work |
| 15:29:11 | <mari51613> | i am surprised a binary search tree could have an empty root while being nonempty |
| 15:30:01 | <tomsmeding> | mari51613: what do you get from splitRoot? |
| 15:30:20 | <mari51613> | huh the example by int-e above |
| 15:30:21 | <int-e> | Also, if all you do with the result of `minView` is to check whether it's `Tip`, that *could* be constant time... bu of course the function is super strict so it isn't ;-) |
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| 15:31:11 | <__monty__> | Isn't a bonus of null that it works for any Foldable? |
| 15:31:18 | <tomsmeding> | mari51613: what splitRoot does internally is give you three sets: the elements less than what happens to be the root of the tree, a singleton set containing the root, and the elements greater than the root |
| 15:31:43 | <tomsmeding> | which element in the set is the root depends on exactly how the Set came to be |
| 15:32:09 | <mari51613> | hm almost suited for recursion. Thanks tomsmeding |
| 15:32:20 | <tomsmeding> | in Set.fromList [1,2], apparently '1' is the root and '2' its right child; in Set.fromList [2,1], apparently '2' is the root |
| 15:32:38 | <EvanR> | __monty__, if your algorithm works on any foldable, then you can't rely on any Set details whatsoever, so null would basically be your only option |
| 15:32:50 | <EvanR> | rather than a benefit xD |
| 15:33:11 | <mari51613> | __monty__: we are discussing how to keep set structures after pattern-matching |
| 15:34:00 | <EvanR> | I conflated pattern matching with "covering views" for giggles, and changed the subject |
| 15:34:23 | <EvanR> | since Set is abstract |
| 15:36:32 | <bwe> | EvanR: what's the danger of S.size mySet == 0 ? |
| 15:36:44 | <EvanR> | instead of null? |
| 15:37:26 | <bwe> | yes |
| 15:37:26 | <EvanR> | the danger of more letters, maybe more computation, otherwise just seems like style |
| 15:37:31 | <tomsmeding> | null is more polymorphic, but the performance is the same |
| 15:37:38 | <tomsmeding> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/containers-0.7/docs/src/Data.Set.Internal.html#null |
| 15:38:12 | <EvanR> | it wouldn't turn into a numeric test? |
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| 15:38:39 | <__monty__> | length would be the polymorphic version of S.size. |
| 15:38:40 | <tomsmeding> | perhaps it will, perhaps it won't, but if an additional int equality test here is a performance problem, you have other issues |
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| 15:41:13 | <tomsmeding> | right, `null` can avoid the int equality test whereas GHC doesn't know that the presence of `Bin` implies size>0, so with `size` you do get an int equality test |
| 15:41:49 | <tomsmeding> | but -- you know what -- pattern matching on the constructor is also an int equality test! (On the constructor tag) |
| 15:42:25 | <EvanR> | it patterns matches on the underlying constructor anyway |
| 15:42:39 | <EvanR> | in either case |
| 15:42:50 | <tomsmeding> | yes so it's 1 versus 2 equality tests |
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| 15:43:16 | <EvanR> | but if null is wrapped in an if, that's another test, of True vs False |
| 15:43:29 | <EvanR> | but I guess == 0 also has that |
| 15:43:32 | <tomsmeding> | that boolean test is also there after the int equality test |
| 15:43:34 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 15:43:41 | <EvanR> | multiple tests! |
| 15:43:56 | <EvanR> | smh |
| 15:44:10 | <tomsmeding> | (size s == 0) == True |
| 15:44:43 | <EvanR> | clearly the library needs to add a method :: b -> (Set a -> b) -> b |
| 15:44:58 | <tomsmeding> | which... does what, branch on the constructor? |
| 15:45:04 | <EvanR> | yeah xD |
| 15:45:20 | <tomsmeding> | ghc will eliminate the boolean equality test using case-of-case conversion |
| 15:45:23 | <EvanR> | where the set passed to the callback is definitely non empty |
| 15:45:46 | <EvanR> | good |
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| 15:46:14 | <tomsmeding> | case (case x of P1 -> True ; P2 -> False) of True -> A ; False -> B ~> case x of P1 -> (case True of True -> A ; False -> B) ; P2 -> (case False of True -> A ; False -> B) |
| 15:46:28 | <tomsmeding> | where the last two cases immediately optimise to "A" and "B" |
| 15:47:00 | <tomsmeding> | so your method is unneeded, S.null suffices |
| 15:47:14 | <EvanR> | \o/ |
| 15:47:49 | <mari51613> | bwe moved on to fire the rockets in the meantime, they are about to trigger |
| 15:48:14 | <__monty__> | What's bwe? |
| 15:48:22 | <mari51613> | an user |
| 15:48:30 | <tomsmeding> | scroll about half a screen up |
| 15:48:53 | <bwe> | mari51613: well, sort of. I get some stack traces for uncovered patterns. |
| 15:49:13 | <__monty__> | : ( I was hoping for a rocket company acronym and a cool stream to go along with a launch. |
| 15:49:26 | <EvanR> | a rocket company that runs on haskell |
| 15:49:44 | <tomsmeding> | Bursting With Entropy? |
| 15:49:45 | <EvanR> | so that they can be literal when they use launchMissiles :: IO () |
| 15:50:25 | <mari51613> | :: IO Damage |
| 15:50:51 | <EvanR> | you have to wait for the missiles to launch, fly, and hit the target |
| 15:51:01 | <EvanR> | so the Damage is lazy I/O |
| 15:51:14 | <tomsmeding> | IO can block just fine, no need for it to be lazy |
| 15:51:22 | <bwe> | __monty__: btw there is this nice `streaming` package. |
| 15:51:44 | <EvanR> | tomsmeding, better not miss the target then! |
| 15:52:01 | <tomsmeding> | well then the damage is just 0, or perhaps there is still damage but not quite where you intended |
| 15:52:25 | <EvanR> | how do you know what's a miss and what's taking the scenic route |
| 15:52:40 | <tomsmeding> | how do you know that your `writeFile` is not going over the network |
| 15:52:40 | <EvanR> | very relevant in DOOM II with those homing missiles |
| 15:53:15 | <EvanR> | writeFile is a sad posterchild for I/O |
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| 15:53:53 | <EvanR> | even if it completes you don't know if the file has been committed |
| 15:53:55 | <tomsmeding> | turns out it's versatile enough for reasoning about side-effects and concurrency without needing to implement mass-destruction weapons :) |
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| 15:54:41 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | any love for decino (youtube) ? |
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| 16:08:42 | <EvanR> | writeFile :: IO Probability |
| 16:08:51 | <EvanR> | tells you how likely it was to be committed |
| 16:09:20 | <EvanR> | similar to Damage xD |
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| 17:31:25 | <monochrom> | IO (IO Damage) so you get an IO action that you can use later to query the damage when you're ready for the possible wait. :) |
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| 18:01:11 | <[exa]> | bwe: re `these` I'm still unsure if I like the constructor name (Both sounds much more matching the common use).. but yeah it's great once one finds the uses :D |
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| 18:09:40 | <[exa]> | segfaultfizzbuzz: what's decino |
| 18:09:49 | <dolio> | Doom streamer. |
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| 18:13:49 | <[exa]> | I should start streaming doom reimplementation in haskell |
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| 18:25:18 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | [exa]: decino is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isFsIJkj5Ec ... i shouldn't encourage you he is way too entertaining |
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| 19:27:18 | <EvanR> | [exa], I've been doing an on-off deep dive on this subject |
| 19:27:43 | <EvanR> | but it seems to be getting harder because this linux DOOM source code lying around doesn't want to compile (anymore?) |
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| 19:29:30 | <[exa]> | the linux doom ports kinda work no? |
| 19:29:40 | <[exa]> | (but ofc they don't COMPOSE CATEGORICALLY) |
| 19:29:46 | <[exa]> | (enter λOOM) |
| 19:29:53 | <EvanR> | all the ports work |
| 19:30:18 | <EvanR> | it's just that this specific dump of source code from way back in the day, around the time doom was open sourced, is very old and crusty |
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| 19:30:40 | <[exa]> | ah yes that one, I never really even opened that |
| 19:30:51 | <[exa]> | doom is algorithms + wads, actual source is irrelevant |
| 19:30:51 | <EvanR> | and using a modern source port seems like very far removed from the original |
| 19:31:09 | <EvanR> | yes though later ports change the algorithm for reasons |
| 19:31:14 | <[exa]> | yeah |
| 19:31:19 | <EvanR> | to fix bugs, or add features |
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| 19:31:34 | <[exa]> | man you motivated me |
| 19:32:18 | <EvanR> | I made significant changes to that C code |
| 19:32:21 | <EvanR> | it compiled |
| 19:32:26 | <EvanR> | then segfaulted xD |
| 19:32:29 | <EvanR> | I know why it segfaults |
| 19:32:34 | <EvanR> | but not "really why" |
| 19:33:13 | <[exa]> | that's the way of C |
| 19:34:02 | <EvanR> | it's like assuming something about the WAD which is not true |
| 19:34:14 | <EvanR> | the structure of the WAD isn't what it expected |
| 19:36:48 | <[exa]> | ok I extend my definition to algorithms + wads + quirks :) |
| 19:36:50 | <EvanR> | in the process I amassed a bunch of haskell code to extract stuff from the wad |
| 19:37:28 | <EvanR> | the wad monad |
| 19:37:30 | <EvanR> | lol |
| 19:38:13 | <EvanR> | runWAD, opens a wad file, does a bunch of stuff, closes the file, returns the result |
| 19:38:36 | <EvanR> | so you don't have to load the whole wad into memory |
| 19:39:41 | <EvanR> | not everyone has tens megabytes to spare! |
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| 19:41:52 | <tomsmeding> | > the wad monad |
| 19:41:58 | <[exa]> | underrated |
| 19:41:59 | <tomsmeding> | *chef's kiss* |
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| 21:24:55 | <EvanR> | https://oscarcunningham.com/494/a-better-representation-for-real-numbers/ |
| 21:25:56 | <EvanR> | the representation can probably be haskelled |
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| 22:16:39 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I like this verb! |
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| 22:22:26 | <EvanR> | as in "let's haskell the shit out of it" |
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| 22:56:19 | <jreicher> | ISTR to recall that there was an MIT (?) memo about using continued fractions for machine arithmetic. Personally I worry the elegance of the data structure is a kind of false virtue, as the more important issue is the performance of operations. |
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All times are in UTC on 2025-09-04.