Logs on 2025-09-12 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 03:12:38 | <Square3> | When i do 'cabal repl somepackageA' and the issue a ':load some/ModuleB.hs', all modules in somepackageA goes missing |
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| 03:17:33 | <Square3> | oh.. ':add path/to/Module.hs' did the trick |
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| 05:23:03 | trickard__ | is now known as trickard |
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| 05:42:25 | <dminuoso> | monochrom: True if (True if True else False) else False is allowed in Python. |
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| 05:42:44 | <dminuoso> | Or did you mean without parenthesis? |
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| 06:09:40 | <monochrom> | Right. :) |
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| 13:50:10 | <mbauman> | Hiya Haskellers! Do folks from the SRT/advisory database team hang out here or is there an informal place where they do? I'm bombing in on you all from the Julia community because I'm spearheading the dev of our own database and have been taking inspiration from the work your team has done — and would be grateful for any retrospectives they might |
| 13:50:11 | <mbauman> | share. |
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| 14:28:49 | <miku727> | functional programming |
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| 14:37:34 | <miku727> | exit |
| 14:37:36 | <miku727> | woops |
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| 16:22:17 | <monochrom> | That sounds like generic blind spam. #haskell is not a "team". |
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| 16:27:43 | <mauke> | the security response team is a team |
| 16:28:07 | <monochrom> | Oops. Sorry. |
| 16:28:31 | <Franciman> | lol mauke |
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| 17:41:12 | <geekosaur> | https://discourse.haskell.org/t/haskell-security-response-team-2025-april-june-report/12496 is probably a better place to look to contact them? |
| 17:41:46 | <geekosaur> | first heading, even |
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| 17:45:34 | <tomsmeding> | they seem to be gone |
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| 17:58:45 | <EvanR> | we're putting together a team :tm: |
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| 18:26:26 | <zzz> | The A-Team is translated as "Class A Squad" in my country if you back-translate it literally so I was going to make a joke involving classes before I remembered the original name. |
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| 20:42:52 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> I've implemented a kind of STG in rust for Nix evaluation. I managed to make it recursion less how the paper from 2016. What i dont understand is how to do primops. I mean if i have a primop such as "(+ 4 2)" i have a block of code representing that primop ("+") and i pass it two arguments "4" and "2". So far so good. However I'm not sure how to force the two arguments. I can start a "new" evaluation but that... |
| 20:42:57 | <haskellbridge> | ... then incurs a new function on the rust, which i dont know if thats bad? but that means you can overflow the Rust stack but chaining enough primops |
| 20:43:38 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> not sure what do to do, how does GHC do it? the design they describe in https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/eval-apply.pdf wont work to evaluate "4" and then "2", or at least i dont see how i could make it do that |
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| 21:45:17 | <EvanR> | magic_rb, if your STG instruction set includes Eval and another one that does primitive operations, on e.g. machine ints, then use Eval instructions to evaluate the inputs to the primitive, then have the primitive expect evaluated arguments already? |
| 21:45:54 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> it doesnt currently, hm |
| 21:46:23 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> but it doesnt quite solve the immediate issue which is that idk how to do it recursion less if i dont uncurry everything |
| 21:46:47 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> but tbh, i dont think it matters? nix is completely uncurried, always and im targeting nix with this |
| 21:46:53 | <EvanR> | the process of evaluating e.g. a machine int doesn't need to have special recursion on top of how you already evaluate stuff |
| 21:47:11 | <EvanR> | since it evaluates to a number if it's well typed |
| 21:47:12 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> yes, my point is, uh |
| 21:47:21 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> (no types btw) |
| 21:47:24 | <EvanR> | oof |
| 21:47:25 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> wait, ill push the changes i have |
| 21:48:43 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> https://git.redalder.org/magic_rb/nix-stg/src/branch/main/nix-stg/src/env.rs#L53 this is my "evaluatior/VM" |
| 21:48:50 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> i think VM is a better term? |
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| 21:49:45 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> https://git.redalder.org/magic_rb/nix-stg/src/branch/main/nix-stg/src/compiler.rs#L44 and here is a builtin, so if i have a builtin with just one argument i know how to do it without invoking "force" again, essentially do a TCALL |
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| 21:50:15 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> but i cant figure out how generalize the TCALL into higher than 1 arity |
| 21:50:46 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> though i am currently implementing an uncurry function for all builtins, since all functions are uncurried in nix :( |
| 21:50:58 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> fuck, curried |
| 21:51:00 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> i always get it wront |
| 21:51:09 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> a -> b -> c not (a, b) -> c |
| 21:51:46 | <EvanR> | primitives often need multiple arguments now |
| 21:52:14 | <EvanR> | so the second one would be nice |
| 21:53:49 | <EvanR> | so something like PrimOp OpName N, which takes N values off one of your stacks and passes them all to the code for OpName |
| 21:54:06 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> i dont have a stack like that |
| 21:54:59 | <EvanR> | where ever the values end up being temporarily |
| 21:55:02 | <EvanR> | get them from there |
| 21:55:13 | <EvanR> | maybe allow up to 4 arguments |
| 21:55:26 | <EvanR> | and they're all passed in even if they aren't needed |
| 21:55:49 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> https://paste.tomsmeding.com/3ckIHqKL |
| 21:56:37 | <EvanR> | FORCE sounds encouraging |
| 21:56:38 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> thats for "(x: y: z: x + y + z) 4 5 6" this code |
| 21:57:14 | <EvanR> | lisp people laughing at us doing one + at a time |
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| 21:59:43 | <EvanR> | a dedicated stack specifically for saving the arguments to a primop would also work |
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| 22:00:07 | <EvanR> | evolved ghc keeps reducing the number of stacks via tricks but that's like an optimized thing |
| 22:01:19 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> well, im trying to optimize :P |
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| 22:03:35 | <EvanR> | prematurely or postmaturely |
| 22:03:38 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> okay, managed a arbitrary depth uncurrying function |
| 22:03:48 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> nah, like, im not optimizing properly |
| 22:03:59 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> but i dont want to introduce new things into the core runtime |
| 22:04:22 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> also, i seem to recall the 2016 paper saying that the STG only handles fully saturated primop calls and so the frontend must wrap them in lambdas |
| 22:04:32 | <EvanR> | primitives should be something you designed into the system xD |
| 22:04:36 | <EvanR> | not slapped on at the last minute |
| 22:05:12 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> it is designed in? |
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| 22:18:26 | <monochrom> | I wonder if: There is no design, there is only slapping on earlier or slapping on later. |
| 22:19:35 | <EvanR> | don't forget unslapping |
| 22:19:42 | <EvanR> | so the final product looks like jenga |
| 22:19:45 | <EvanR> | one way or another |
| 22:20:01 | <monochrom> | hee hee |
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