Logs on 2025-09-30 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 03:46:46 | <chromoblob> | [exa]: "| Just arg <- preview (prefixed "hahaha") arg" nah too much clutter... |
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| 07:43:47 | <[exa]> | chromoblob: there should be a way to make a pattern synonym for that, will try |
| 07:44:07 | <[exa]> | actually looks weird to me that no one documented this |
| 07:44:20 | <[exa]> | time2try |
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| 07:51:57 | <[exa]> | chromoblob: ok so the way 1 with viewpatterns (still there's an obnoxious extra Just): https://paste.tomsmeding.com/LQcWsMCY |
| 07:52:46 | <chromoblob> | yeah, very simple |
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| 07:56:33 | <c_wraith> | you can't pass an argument to a pattern synonym.... as a value. |
| 07:57:49 | <[exa]> | c_wraith: yeah I just hit that now |
| 07:58:22 | <[exa]> | chromoblob: the closest I got with the synonyms so far: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/CSv7TWl9 |
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| 07:59:04 | <tomsmeding> | [exa]: you can give the pattern synonym a Symbol-kinded type argument as the prefix |
| 07:59:17 | <c_wraith> | that's why I said "as a value" :) |
| 07:59:22 | <tomsmeding> | indeed |
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| 08:01:09 | <[exa]> | oh whoa, ghc panic: https://paste.tomsmeding.com/aYsg3Ma9 |
| 08:01:38 | <[exa]> | I thought I'd outsmart it |
| 08:01:46 | <tomsmeding> | wow |
| 08:02:04 | <tomsmeding> | even 9.12 crashes on this |
| 08:02:06 | <[exa]> | hm what do I need for the symbol-kinded example? datakinds? |
| 08:02:14 | <tomsmeding> | [exa]: report it as a GHC bug :D |
| 08:03:04 | <tomsmeding> | [exa]: https://play.haskell.org/saved/kFMlnUcJ |
| 08:04:31 | <[exa]> | oh cool |
| 08:04:38 | <[exa]> | chromoblob: ^ this is likely the closest we can get |
| 08:04:41 | <[exa]> | thanks! |
| 08:05:12 | <tomsmeding> | this is like the 4th time that I've coded up this example, 10 mins ago I was looking through the logs trying to find an earlier version of it but I couldn't so I typed it up again :p |
| 08:05:30 | <[exa]> | time to throw it at the wiki? :D |
| 08:05:30 | <tomsmeding> | most significant limitation is what c_wraith said: the prefix must be static, cannot be runtime-determined |
| 08:06:00 | <[exa]> | I'd say that's ok |
| 08:06:03 | <c_wraith> | well... Not *strictly* true. |
| 08:06:41 | <tomsmeding> | I guess you can withSomeSSymbol and then withKnownSymbol to construct a KnownSymbol out of thin air |
| 08:06:50 | <c_wraith> | yeah, but at that point... why? |
| 08:06:57 | <tomsmeding> | but you can't just put that around an argument |
| 08:06:59 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 08:07:44 | <tomsmeding> | [exa]: your ghc-crashing example is very fragile |
| 08:08:12 | <[exa]> | I kinda fail to see why, but okay |
| 08:08:29 | <tomsmeding> | [exa]: https://play.haskell.org/saved/If9WqzWN |
| 08:08:40 | <tomsmeding> | the presence of that p == s guard is somehow essential |
| 08:09:13 | <[exa]> | lol |
| 08:09:35 | <[exa]> | btw I won't be able to open the issue today so if anyone volunteered to report this it would be very welcome |
| 08:10:58 | <tomsmeding> | [exa]: your code does not type check, like, at all |
| 08:11:05 | <tomsmeding> | GHC is being drunk |
| 08:11:15 | <[exa]> | how come it doesn't typecheck? |
| 08:11:18 | <[exa]> | it worked :D |
| 08:11:23 | <tomsmeding> | prefixed :: String -> String -> Maybe String |
| 08:11:28 | <tomsmeding> | prefixed2 :: (String, String) -> Maybe String |
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| 08:11:35 | <[exa]> | check |
| 08:11:35 | <tomsmeding> | so the x in Secured is a String |
| 08:11:43 | <tomsmeding> | so the argument to Secured in 'secure' is a String |
| 08:11:46 | <tomsmeding> | not a (String, String) |
| 08:11:57 | <tomsmeding> | if I give 'prefixed' a type signature, ghc complains |
| 08:12:05 | <tomsmeding> | I don't know _what_ is going on here |
| 08:12:14 | <[exa]> | ooooooh I see |
| 08:12:26 | <[exa]> | I put the tuple into it from the wrong side |
| 08:12:29 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 08:12:55 | <tomsmeding> | prefixed2 would need to also return the pair for the whole trick to work |
| 08:13:05 | <tomsmeding> | as in, take (prefix, whole) and return (prefix, suffix) |
| 08:13:14 | <[exa]> | yeah that was not the intention |
| 08:13:19 | <tomsmeding> | but I have no clue why ghc is accepting the code |
| 08:13:27 | <[exa]> | "accepting" :D |
| 08:13:33 | <tomsmeding> | well if you remove the | p == s guard |
| 08:13:57 | <tomsmeding> | ah |
| 08:13:59 | <tomsmeding> | no it doesn't |
| 08:14:14 | <tomsmeding> | if you leave in the Just s case of prefixed then it throws a type error as expected, even without a type signature |
| 08:14:33 | <tomsmeding> | so here is code that contains a type error, but somehow ghc breaks before being able to report it |
| 08:14:39 | tomsmeding | has a meeting, sorry |
| 08:14:54 | <[exa]> | #metoo |
| 08:15:06 | <[exa]> | ok let's see later |
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| 09:01:49 | <ski> | @index stripPrefix |
| 09:01:49 | <lambdabot> | GHC.OldList, Data.List |
| 09:01:50 | <ski> | @type stripPrefix |
| 09:01:51 | <lambdabot> | Eq a => [a] -> [a] -> Maybe [a] |
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| 09:05:34 | <ski> | [exa],c_wraith : `pattern Append :: Eq a => [a] -> () => [a] -> [a]' ought to be possible, first comes input context and parameters, then output context and parameters, finally input result |
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| 09:11:47 | <[exa]> | ski: ok whew |
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| 09:14:34 | <ski> | pattern Append [ ] ys = ys |
| 09:14:36 | <ski> | pattern Append (x0:xs) ys = x1 : Append xs ys | x0 == x1 |
| 09:14:49 | <ski> | or, you could restate the latter as |
| 09:15:15 | <ski> | pattern Append (x:xs) ys = Is x : Append xs ys |
| 09:15:17 | <ski> | with |
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| 09:16:04 | <ski> | pattern Is :: Eq a => a -> () => a |
| 09:16:25 | <ski> | pattern Is x <- ((x ==) -> True) |
| 09:16:27 | <ski> | where |
| 09:16:33 | <ski> | Is x = x |
| 09:17:26 | <ski> | (or, s/Is/Id/, maybe) |
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| 09:18:01 | <tomsmeding> | "ought to be possible", as in, "would be nice but GHC does not support this" :p |
| 09:18:07 | <ski> | indeed |
| 09:18:20 | <ski> | it already does support the output context |
| 09:18:24 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
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| 09:19:54 | <[exa]> | we should have #haskell-prolog |
| 09:20:04 | <tomsmeding> | should we? |
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| 09:20:45 | tomsmeding | is building a GHC HEAD to test [exa]'s thing |
| 09:20:54 | <[exa]> | lol |
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| 09:23:38 | <ski> | well, #mercury does exist (and #curry) |
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| 09:37:11 | <tomsmeding> | [exa]: GHC HEAD also crashes |
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| 09:43:26 | <ski> | % case "foobar" of (("foo",) -> Suffix "bar") -> () |
| 09:43:26 | <yahb2> | () |
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| 09:48:25 | <tomsmeding> | [exa]: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/26465 |
| 09:48:53 | <tomsmeding> | ski: cute |
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| 09:51:44 | <ski> | tomsmeding : surely `x' in `Secured x' ought to have type `String' (or, generalized, `[a]') ? |
| 09:51:51 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 09:51:58 | <tomsmeding> | the module contains a type error, as I said |
| 09:52:10 | <tomsmeding> | usage expects the x to be (String, String), but the definition implies it to be String |
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| 09:52:19 | <tomsmeding> | supplying either via a type signature avoids the panic |
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| 09:52:26 | <ski> | ah, i see |
| 09:53:09 | <tomsmeding> | I'll add this to the issue, thanks |
| 09:53:42 | <tomsmeding> | done |
| 09:54:30 | <tomsmeding> | uh that makes no sense as the usage is gone in this reduced example |
| 09:54:35 | <[exa]> | tomsmeding: oh cool, thanks! |
| 09:54:46 | <tomsmeding> | well whatever |
| 09:56:13 | <tomsmeding> | added curious observation 4: Inlining prefixed2 into Secured also avoids the panic! |
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| 09:56:37 | <ski> | there is no usage of `Secured' on that post (as opposed to original ones) |
| 09:56:47 | <tomsmeding> | indeed |
| 09:56:49 | <ski> | right |
| 09:56:56 | <tomsmeding> | seems like the usage is unnecessary, though |
| 09:57:13 | <tomsmeding> | it really is a very fragile piece of code |
| 09:57:23 | <tomsmeding> | also I like the vibe of "NoFlexi" |
| 09:57:24 | <ski> | you could replace "usage of Secured implies" with "type signature of Secured implies", i guess. only applies when (1c) is present, though |
| 09:57:58 | <tomsmeding> | yeah I'd like to not change the code snippet and playground link if not really necessary |
| 09:58:05 | <tomsmeding> | I think it's clear enough like this |
| 09:58:41 | <tomsmeding> | it's trivial to reproduce and it's just 3 lines of code |
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| 10:04:06 | <ski> | (having (1b) generalized, while (1a) is not, also looks a bit strange ..) |
| 10:06:07 | <tomsmeding> | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
| 10:06:15 | <tomsmeding> | if the reader wants to try other combinations they're welcome to |
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| 10:10:35 | <tomsmeding> | ski: this looks like a typechecker issue, and type signatures compartmentalise type checking, so if you can find a type signature that preserves the panic, then do let me know and I'll add it |
| 10:10:56 | <tomsmeding> | (or post it yourself) |
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| 12:46:15 | <[exa]> | tomsmeding: the "NoFlexi" comes from zonking apparently https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/ghc-9.12.2/docs/GHC-Tc-Zonk-Env.html#t:ZonkFlexi |
| 12:46:27 | <[exa]> | might be the case that it's actually the error message production that dies |
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| 12:55:00 | <tomsmeding> | yeah the panic also mentions zonking |
| 12:55:11 | <tomsmeding> | [exa]: I have no clue how any of that works :) |
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| 13:13:37 | <[exa]> | zonking is when the inferred types go back to AST |
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| 13:14:08 | <tomsmeding> | surely that just happens in general at the end of various passes in the type checker |
| 13:20:15 | <[exa]> | typechecker has more passes? (/me scared) |
| 13:20:54 | <tomsmeding> | well, like, surely you reify the final types of functions when you're done with a strongly-connected component |
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| 15:15:18 | <geekosaur> | IIRC zonking is replacing IORefs representing tyvars into the types they contain |
| 15:15:31 | <geekosaur> | s/into/with |
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| 15:44:34 | <ski> | (i guess another term one might use is "freezing" (cf. `Data.Array.MArray.freeze :: (Ix i,MArray ma e m,IArray ia e) => ma i e -> m (ia i e)'). in Prolog, copy_term/2 is used to get a copy that is not affected by backtracking uninstantiating a term (which might then get instantiated a different way). a side-effect of that is losing any variable aliasing (equality constraints) between the copied term and |
| 15:44:40 | <ski> | other terms (and, in general, also losing any other (non-instantiation) constraints as well, on variables in the term)) |
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| 22:28:06 | → | Sgeo joins (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 22:32:41 | → | gues27271 joins (~username@2001:ac8:17:20::e118) |
| 22:35:05 | × | GdeVolpiano quits (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
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| 22:36:56 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@47-149-198-150.fdr01.slbh.ca.ip.frontiernet.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:38:53 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 22:40:00 | → | Tuplanolla joins (~Tuplanoll@91-159-187-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
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| 22:42:09 | × | YuutaW quits (~YuutaW@alice.yuuta.moe) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:43:49 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 22:54:16 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 22:56:25 | × | humasect_ quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 22:58:49 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 23:00:08 | → | vanishingideal joins (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) |
| 23:02:05 | × | gues27271 quits (~username@2001:ac8:17:20::e118) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 23:04:19 | gues30380 | is now known as yoann |
| 23:09:39 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 23:15:27 | × | acidjnk quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171998005183a2f3779849.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 23:21:37 | × | sprotte24 quits (~sprotte24@p200300d16f3a380020dd3ee447d7aa86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 23:25:01 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:27:28 | → | bitdex joins (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 23:29:34 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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| 23:38:04 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@47-149-198-150.fdr01.slbh.ca.ip.frontiernet.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 23:38:31 | × | Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-159-187-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 23:40:25 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:44:57 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 23:45:50 | → | craunts79 joins (~craunts@136.158.7.194) |
| 23:55:55 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
All times are in UTC on 2025-09-30.