Logs on 2025-10-17 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 01:35:11 | <jackdk> | dolio: Apparently that work ran into roadblocks and is not planned any more: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/15028. This libraries@ post lists the main problems: https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/libraries/2020-April/030357.html . Most seem fixable, but the syntactic noise seems really annoying and the strictness change more fundamentally difficult. |
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| 02:39:27 | <dcpagan> | Is there a way to either undo an import or hide a variable from an existing import? |
| 02:39:37 | <dcpagan> | I keep getting ambiguous occurrence errors. |
| 02:39:47 | <dcpagan> | I mean in the interactive shell. |
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| 02:40:47 | <geekosaur> | probably have to unimport and re-import with `hiding` |
| 02:41:06 | <geekosaur> | (unimporting is done with the old `:m` command: `:m -Module.Name` |
| 02:41:12 | <geekosaur> | ) |
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| 02:44:11 | <ski> | import Prelude hiding (length) |
| 02:44:43 | <fgidim> | something like import Prelude hiding tail or import Prelude hiding( head, tail ) |
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| 07:50:09 | <[exa]> | just curious, did anyone do some rigorous analysis of what's packed in the ghc-produced binaries (i.e., what's making them big?) |
| 07:50:45 | <[exa]> | not that they'd be super big, esp. not w.r.t. to the other pop compilers, but still curious |
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| 07:52:52 | <tomsmeding> | I have no idea, but libHSbase.so is 12 MB |
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| 09:50:02 | <[exa]> | tomsmeding: ah well that might be a part of it :) |
| 09:50:04 | <[exa]> | ok |
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| 09:51:38 | <[exa]> | just wondering, is there any semantic difference between doing a function with normal guards and going for the `case () { _ | theGuard -> ...}` shortcut? I've fixed a bug that shouldn't have been fixed by rewriting that, which is weird. |
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| 15:43:12 | <ski> | [exa] : failure in `case' can't fall back to alternate defining clauses, if that's what you're thinking of. so, if there's only one defining equation, you should be fine |
| 15:43:55 | <ski> | (of course, can't fall back to another `case', either) |
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| 15:59:19 | <yabobay> | what was the 'opposite' of `pure` where you get, for example, Nothing when casting to Maybe |
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| 16:07:29 | <ski> | huh ? |
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| 16:08:12 | <ski> | maybe you should show some example(s) ? |
| 16:14:27 | <yabobay> | like if there was a function called foo and i could go `foo :: Maybe a` and i'd get Nothing |
| 16:15:19 | <int-e> | :t empty |
| 16:15:20 | <lambdabot> | Alternative f => f a |
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| 16:15:29 | <int-e> | :t mempty |
| 16:15:30 | <lambdabot> | Monoid a => a |
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| 16:16:04 | <int-e> | (`empty` is closer to Applicative) |
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| 16:18:06 | <yabobay> | my ghc doesn't have empty. is it in a module or something? |
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| 16:19:58 | <Leary> | @hoogle empty |
| 16:19:58 | <lambdabot> | Control.Applicative empty :: Alternative f => f a |
| 16:19:58 | <lambdabot> | GHC.Base empty :: Alternative f => f a |
| 16:19:58 | <lambdabot> | Data.ByteString empty :: ByteString |
| 16:20:16 | <yabobay> | ok sorry i hoogled it myself |
| 16:20:17 | <yabobay> | thanks! |
| 16:20:19 | ← | yabobay parts (~pizza@2a02:85f:fcd5:1601:439e:d9b3:6a5d:d567) (bye) |
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| 16:23:25 | <ski> | @index empty |
| 16:23:25 | <lambdabot> | Control.Applicative, Data.Binary.Builder, Data.ByteString.Lazy, Data.ByteString.Lazy.Char8, Data.ByteString, Data.ByteString.Char8, Data.ByteString.Short, Data.IntMap.Strict, Data.IntMap.Lazy, Data. |
| 16:23:25 | <lambdabot> | IntMap, Data.IntSet, Data.Map.Lazy, Data.Map.Strict, Data.Map, Data.Set, Data.Sequence, Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ, Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJClass, Text.PrettyPrint, Language.Haskell.TH.PprLib |
| 16:23:46 | <ski> | oh, they left |
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| 18:03:17 | <dcpagan> | Is a function with only two pattern guards, the second guard consisting only of "otherwise" just as efficient as implementing the function as an if statement? |
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| 18:10:36 | <mauke> | that sounds like a guard, not a pattern guard |
| 18:10:46 | <mauke> | but yes, I don't think there's any performance difference |
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| 18:26:29 | <monochrom> | Unless it is positively proven that I really need fast code, I write code to express what I think, not to micromanage what the machine code looks like. |
| 18:28:08 | <EvanR> | please turn in your control freak license and weapon |
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| 18:28:20 | <EvanR> | your don't deserve to wear that uniform |
| 18:29:05 | <monochrom> | I never got that license and uniform in the first place because I never learned VHDL. >:) |
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| 18:42:18 | <fgidim> | i think for pattern guards, those are desugared to a case expression. though i don't know if there is a speed difference between that and if statements |
| 18:44:08 | <EvanR> | the airspeed velocity of an if statement |
| 18:44:48 | <EvanR> | "if statement" isn't actually a thing, it's compiled into a case expression |
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| 18:46:40 | <mauke> | if x then y else z = case x of { True -> y; _ -> z } |
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| 19:20:32 | <fgidim> | there is more on page 20 https://www.haskell.org/definition/haskell2010.pdf |
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| 19:30:13 | <EvanR> | case x of { False -> z; _ -> y } would also work |
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| 19:45:35 | <ggVGc> | case isn't a real thing because it's compiled to... |
| 19:45:42 | <ggVGc> | goto? |
| 19:46:10 | <monochrom> | It's syntax sugar all the way down. |
| 19:47:07 | <monochrom> | goto isn't a real thing because it's code for "mov foo, programCounter" |
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| 19:47:40 | <ggVGc> | the program counter isn't a real thing because your CPU microcode doesn't execute things the way you imagine anyway. |
| 19:48:30 | <monochrom> | CPU isn't a real thing because it's either a social construct or a quantum wave function. |
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| 19:49:40 | <ggVGc> | monochrom: fwiw I did learn VHDL (even took a proper university course in it), and I also don't want to micromanage the machine. |
| 19:50:21 | <monochrom> | You have still earned the license to. :) |
| 19:50:32 | <ggVGc> | but, I mean, file IO is always the issue anyway, so it's nice that in Haskell we don't ever interact with the real world and can ignore that. |
| 19:50:54 | <monochrom> | Hot take: Jobs that require licenses are precisely jobs that no one wants apart from the money. >:) |
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| 19:51:58 | <ggVGc> | sounds accurate |
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| 20:02:22 | <haskellbridge> | <slack1256> Bad take. Lots of people go into medicine thinking of grey's anatomy or doctor house. |
| 20:02:22 | <haskellbridge> | ... long message truncated: https://kf8nh.com/_heisenbridge/media/kf8nh.com/uXERyEzaexCoaTxYnLuoPBUn/1MBTkuiYsZk (3 lines) |
| 20:02:32 | <haskellbridge> | <slack1256> Has* |
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| 20:27:28 | <[exa]> | ski: if I got it right, the "case" match is more committed there than the guard? |
| 20:29:29 | <[exa]> | no wait that makes no sense :D |
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| 21:59:03 | <ski> | [exa] : not if the guard is in that `case'. but there could be another level of pattern-matching and guards |
| 21:59:21 | <ski> | (hard to say more, without seeing the before & after code) |
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All times are in UTC on 2025-10-17.