Logs on 2025-10-18 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 01:40:17 | <dcpagan> | Is there a parallel evaluation strategy optimized for monoids? Like, it divides a foldable into chunks, evaluates in parallel each chunk into a monoid, and then folds the monoids? |
| 01:41:03 | <dcpagan> | Monoids are associative, and chunking is just association. |
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| 01:45:20 | <dcpagan> | I wrote my own chunking logic for parallel evaluation with this in mind: https://github.com/DCPagan/Exercism-Haskell/blob/master/parallel-letter-frequency/src/Frequency.hs |
| 01:46:04 | <dcpagan> | It benchmarks pretty well, but is there another evaluation strategy generalized for any monoid? |
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| 01:49:15 | <dcpagan> | The source code for [parListChunk](https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/parallel-3.2.2.0/docs/Control-Parallel-Strategies.html#v:parListChunk) uses "concat"; is there another that uses a monoidal map with a given parallel strategy, and "mconcat" with a given sequential strategy? |
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| 01:56:32 | <Leary> | dcpagan: You can just use the spark system: https://gist.github.com/LSLeary/4a3d918ac1409baba8a5999e18efdcfb |
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| 10:58:48 | <[exa]> | ski: the diff in question was this: https://github.com/LCSB-BioCore/remotesom/commit/7b07e14baed8bd06680d1a6b3e112328ccbd5ac8#diff-20e7ad9f247f4df22907053041b191516af8bce1ee3d2cdae7686277f57a8e56R18-L36 |
| 10:58:56 | <[exa]> | whoops github diff links are hefty |
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| 11:17:18 | <[exa]> | (omg what did it even highlight) |
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| 14:52:07 | <tabaqui> | Hi! What is the equivalent of the cabal with-ghc option for stack? Specifically, I want to use wasm32-wasi-ghc from a different path. |
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| 14:54:03 | <tabaqui> | What's kinda strange is that documentation for Stack.Types.DownloadInfo.url suggest using absolute path, but it is not accepted by stack build itself |
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| 15:04:18 | <geekosaur> | I think the closest you get to that with stack is to use `system-ghc` and adjust your `PATH` |
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| 15:09:59 | <EvanR> | the amount of times it comes down to having to adjust your PATH can we just stop and admit that's how to do it and stop making elaborate incompatible utilities to do it |
| 15:12:35 | <tabaqui> | I think having an option like "load-env-from" in the stack.yaml file would suffice. However, a link from wasm32-wasi-ghc to ghc is still needed. |
| 15:14:21 | <geekosaur> | right. stack isn't really intended for this |
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| 15:14:50 | <geekosaur> | the "right" solution is a wasm-specific snapshot, tbh, but I doubt anyone has plans to make or maintain such |
| 15:16:05 | <geekosaur> | more to the point, stack was designed as a (standard) ghc-specific tool, and there's about zero thought put into alternative uses such as wasm or js backend |
| 15:16:59 | <geekosaur> | (which is not to claim cabal's much better; you can make it work but it takes a certain amount of beating it over the head with a mallet) |
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| 15:41:55 | <monochrom> | And so I made a utility to adjust PATH (and pretty-print it etc) :) |
| 15:43:07 | <EvanR> | every Jedi builds their own light saber. You don't see Jedi download lightsaber of the week and then asking for help on how it works! |
| 15:43:55 | <EvanR> | but also analogy continues, you can lightsaber your own foot easily |
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| 15:50:19 | <tabaqui> | Yes, I'm slowly shifting towards raw Cabal. (Makefile means complete nudity, which is illegal in most places.) |
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| 17:13:58 | <dminuoso> | tabaqui1: By Cabal you mean cabal-install? |
| 17:15:10 | <tabaqui1> | dminuoso: yes, like cabal project with dependency hell and manual resolution of conflicts |
| 17:15:33 | <dminuoso> | tabaqui1: dependency hell hasnt been a thing for nearly a decade now, with v2-style builds. |
| 17:16:02 | <dminuoso> | And conflict resolution I haven't really noticed much |
| 17:16:19 | <tabaqui1> | well, it was the time when I switched on stack projects |
| 17:16:48 | <dminuoso> | tabaqui1: for many years cabal has switched to a nix-inspired build style. |
| 17:17:02 | <dminuoso> | which used to be called v2-* or v2 commands, v2-build, etc.. |
| 17:17:16 | <dminuoso> | But for a long time `cabal build` has been using v2-build now. |
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| 17:17:19 | <tabaqui1> | dminuoso: Nice to hear that, thansk |
| 17:18:17 | <dminuoso> | So in essence cabal builds and places its build artifacts into a store prefixed with a hash, allowing multiple versions to co-exist. |
| 17:18:45 | <dminuoso> | (or multiple flavours, like with different flags) |
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| 17:32:44 | <EvanR> | hell was the paradigm where everyone pretends there is only one version of every library, the latest version. And it's a shared reality between all developers and all instances of a program running |
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| 18:36:07 | <mreh> | can you not use a type family from a superclass in a typeclass definition? |
| 18:36:34 | <mreh> | class ColourSampleable a => ColourRenderable a where |
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| 18:36:49 | <mreh> | colourToGlsl :: Colour a (ColourComponent a) -> ByteString |
| 18:37:08 | <mreh> | Colour and ColourComponent are associated types from ColourSampleable |
| 18:38:08 | <mreh> | oh, you have to do `colourToGlsl :: a -> Colour a (ColourComponent a) -> ByteString` |
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| 18:42:38 | <dcpagan> | The time package does not account for the Gregorian shift. |
| 18:44:01 | <dcpagan> | The British empire and its contemporary colonies, including America, adopted the Gregorian calendar in September 1752. If you live in a former British colony, like the United States, running in Linux the command "cal 9 1752" will show that 11 days are missing. |
| 18:44:55 | <dcpagan> | However, with the time package in Haskell, the following code is wrong: |
| 18:44:59 | <dcpagan> | import Data.Time.Calendar |
| 18:45:03 | <dcpagan> | dayOfWeek $ fromGregorian 1752 9 2 |
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| 18:47:46 | <dcpagan> | mreh: With the language feature "TypeSynonymInstances", you can define type class instances for type synonyms. |
| 18:47:48 | <dcpagan> | https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/exts/instances.html#extension-TypeSynonymInstances |
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| 18:53:53 | <mreh> | dcpagan, does that apply to associated types? |
| 18:53:54 | <int-e> | This is by design; the package supports ISO 8601 dates which apply the Gregorian calendar "backwards" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proleptic_Gregorian_calendar#Usage |
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| 18:54:49 | <int-e> | It's also a bunch of pure functions so there isn't much room for localization support |
| 18:55:14 | <int-e> | which otherwise you'd have to apply to account for all the different adaptation dates around the world |
| 18:56:13 | <dcpagan> | :mreh I'm pretty sure; an associated type is just a type family with its members declared in other type class instances. |
| 18:56:33 | <dcpagan> | Try enabling "FlexibleInstances". |
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| 19:00:50 | <mreh> | hmm, I do already |
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| 19:01:10 | <mreh> | I found a fix, anyway |
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| 19:01:56 | <mreh> | I'm used to class methods always needing a value of the same type from the instance head |
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| 19:17:33 | <EvanR> | dcpagan, proleptic gregorian calendar |
| 19:17:55 | <EvanR> | it goes before gregorian calendar was adopted, even into the years less than zero |
| 19:18:11 | <EvanR> | which are off by 1 vs years BC |
| 19:18:22 | <EvanR> | same days, different calendar |
| 19:18:42 | <dcpagan> | I just read the Wikipedia article, thanks for the reference. |
| 19:18:50 | <dcpagan> | I did not know that about ISO-8601. |
| 19:20:22 | <monochrom> | mreh: You can also consider "p a -> Colour a (ColourComponent a) -> ByteString". The user will usually supply "Proxy :: Proxy MyType", then a = MyType. |
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| 19:36:38 | <mreh> | monochrom: I usually settle with (undefined :: a) |
| 19:37:21 | <mreh> | it's only for internal use |
| 19:37:34 | <mreh> | so I feel I can get away with it |
| 19:38:27 | <EvanR> | Proxy is pretty easy and doesn't explode in your face |
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| 19:54:43 | <monochrom> | If you turn on TypeApplication, then "Proxy :: Proxy MyType" can be compressed to "Proxy @MyType". It's very pleasing if you came from a System-F background. I did that en masse recently. :) |
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| 19:55:42 | <monochrom> | I write a type sig "foo :: Modulus m => ..." and the the implementation goes like "foo ... = ... method (Proxy @m) ...". |
| 19:56:05 | <monochrom> | ("method" is like "method :: p m -> Integer") |
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| 19:57:12 | <monochrom> | If you take TypeApplication to the extreme, you can even change "method"'s type to "method :: Integer" and then the use site goes like "method @m". But I am not that extremist yet. :) |
| 19:57:59 | <EvanR> | a variable constant |
| 19:59:59 | <EvanR> | everything's a function, including Integers |
| 20:00:31 | <monochrom> | I recommend Proxy over undefined for these use cases because going Proxy does not take you more time than going undefined. (OK, apart from scrolling to the top to add "import Data.Proxy".) |
| 20:01:08 | <monochrom> | But otherwise I am against over-engineering too. |
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| 20:03:32 | <monochrom> | (Just replied on the discourse why I would use Maybe even though in general there are a million different causes of errors and Maybe doesn't tell you which. Oh because sometimes there is only one cause, and some other times it doesn't matter.) |
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| 20:13:46 | <mreh> | monochrom: that's a nice use of type applications I hadn't thought of |
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| 20:14:15 | <mreh> | I've already got it turned on, so I might start using that instead |
| 20:14:49 | <morj> | If you want to be fancy, you can also use an abstract proxy type: class Who a where whodis :: forall (proxy :: Type -> Type). proxy a -> String |
| 20:15:23 | <mreh> | don't you also have to turn on AllowAmbiguousTypes? |
| 20:15:24 | <morj> | Then this works with Proxy from base, or anything else the user has defined themselves |
| 20:16:01 | <morj> | As a fun bonus, you can also do like `whodis ["a string"]`, which gives you the instance for the string |
| 20:16:20 | <EvanR> | knock knock |
| 20:16:28 | <EvanR> | whodis |
| 20:16:29 | <mreh> | morj: that's funny |
| 20:16:31 | <EvanR> | ["a string"] |
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| 20:27:13 | <mreh> | I have so many Arrows that I need from some instance, which I don't always use to compute an actual value, so I'm always feeding undefined into those too |
| 20:28:15 | <monochrom> | whodunit |
| 20:28:44 | <monochrom> | Yeah the extreme way requires AllowAmbiguousTypes too. |
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| 20:29:32 | <mreh> | monochrom: it's pretty easy to translate to that form, and you only need AllowAmbiguousTypes on the file with the Class in |
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| 20:31:46 | <mreh> | is there any downside to AllowAmbiguousTypes project wide? |
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| 20:32:11 | <EvanR> | doesn't that cripple the entire cool part of type classes |
| 20:32:47 | <EvanR> | if you get an instance you know it was the right one for that type |
| 20:33:33 | <mreh> | wouldn't you need to turn on OverlappingIstances too for that to fail? |
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| 20:37:34 | <EvanR> | yes... nevermind that. But I do see GHC warns that AllowAmbiguousTypes may not interact nice with RankN |
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| 22:54:14 | → | Ging_ joins (46fea76d80@2001:bc8:1210:2cd8::470) |
| 22:57:00 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 22:57:09 | ← | Ging_ parts (46fea76d80@2001:bc8:1210:2cd8::470) () |
| 22:58:50 | → | Ging_ joins (46fea76d80@2001:bc8:1210:2cd8::470) |
| 23:01:41 | × | target_i quits (~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) (Quit: leaving) |
| 23:01:46 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 23:06:30 | × | OftenFaded25 quits (~OftenFade@user/tisktisk) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 23:08:13 | × | jmcantrell quits (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 23:12:23 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:14:58 | → | forell joins (~forell@user/forell) |
| 23:15:15 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 23:18:55 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:28:17 | → | Vajb joins (~Vajb@n7o35ytoa19a9fdq6h6-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 23:30:36 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:35:25 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 23:39:11 | → | jmcantrell joins (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) |
| 23:44:02 | × | hiredman quits (~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:45:18 | → | hiredman joins (~hiredman@frontier1.downey.family) |
| 23:46:24 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:51:11 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 23:59:25 | × | Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
All times are in UTC on 2025-10-18.