Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2025-11-01 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:00:09 weary-traveler joins (~user@user/user363627)
00:05:19 × qqe quits (~qqq@185.54.23.200) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
00:16:46 × Square2 quits (~Square@user/square) (Remote host closed the connection)
00:17:11 Square2 joins (~Square@user/square)
00:20:41 × Googulator54 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-d858-cbac-c845-1acf.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
00:20:54 Googulator54 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-d858-cbac-c845-1acf.pool6.digikabel.hu)
00:21:15 Inline joins (~inlinE@2a02:8071:57a1:dc0:da65:d2f0:d460:56a8)
00:33:15 <geekosaur> @tell tomsmeding play.haskell.org seems to be broken right now (https://paste.tomsmeding.com/hYJIcyRd from https://play.haskell.org/saved/oCLErFl5)
00:33:15 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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00:42:08 × Anarchos quits (~Anarchos@91-161-254-16.subs.proxad.net) (Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!)
00:44:47 × weary-traveler quits (~user@user/user363627) (*.net *.split)
00:44:47 × haltingsolver quits (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (*.net *.split)
00:44:47 × dtman34 quits (~dtman34@c-73-242-68-179.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (*.net *.split)
00:44:47 × remexre quits (~remexre@user/remexre) (*.net *.split)
00:44:47 × synchromesh quits (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:10d9:ceb6:778c:2519) (*.net *.split)
00:44:47 × EvanR quits (~EvanR@user/evanr) (*.net *.split)
00:44:47 × divlamir quits (~divlamir@user/divlamir) (*.net *.split)
00:44:47 × Everything quits (~Everythin@static.208.206.21.65.clients.your-server.de) (*.net *.split)
00:44:47 × xal quits (~xal@mx1.xal.systems) (*.net *.split)
00:44:47 × tcard quits (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:cf17:befc:ff82:5303) (*.net *.split)
00:44:47 × sp1ff` quits (~user@2601:1c2:4c00:6820::8bad) (*.net *.split)
00:44:47 × Nachtgespenst quits (~user@user/siracusa) (*.net *.split)
00:44:47 × AlexNoo quits (~AlexNoo@178.34.160.166) (*.net *.split)
00:44:47 × elenril quits (~elenril@tutturu.khirnov.net) (*.net *.split)
00:44:48 × tuxpaint quits (~a@2600:3c06::f03c:93ff:fea6:ef0e) (*.net *.split)
00:44:48 × arahael quits (~wetfoot@user/arahael) (*.net *.split)
00:44:48 divlamir_ is now known as divlamir
00:45:45 Googulator11 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-d858-cbac-c845-1acf.pool6.digikabel.hu)
00:45:45 × Googulator54 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-d858-cbac-c845-1acf.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
00:47:53 × ttybitnik quits (~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Quit: Fading out...)
00:49:34 Nachtgespenst_ is now known as Nachtgespenst
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00:50:38 × Square2 quits (~Square@user/square) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:51:00 Everything joins (~Everythin@static.208.206.21.65.clients.your-server.de)
00:51:00 haltingsolver joins (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc)
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00:56:49 × swistak quits (~swistak@185.21.216.141) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:56:49 × ringo__ quits (~ringo@157.230.117.128) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:56:49 × mesaoptimizer quits (~mesa@user/PapuaHardyNet) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:56:49 × chymera quits (~chymera@ns1000526.ip-51-81-46.us) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:56:49 × Shark8 quits (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:56:49 × krei-se- quits (~krei-se@p50829bd3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:56:49 × Fijxu quits (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:56:49 × aku quits (aku@65.108.245.241) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:56:49 × divya quits (divya@140.238.251.170) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:56:50 × kaol quits (~kaol@94-237-45-144.nl-ams1.upcloud.host) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:56:50 × fired quits (~la@173-255-196-82.ip.linodeusercontent.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:56:50 × natto17 quits (~natto@129.154.243.159) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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00:56:50 × chromoblob quits (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:56:50 × FANTOM quits (~fantom@212.228.181.156) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:56:50 × yin quits (~zero@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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00:56:50 kaol joins (~kaol@94-237-45-144.nl-ams1.upcloud.host)
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00:56:51 fired_ is now known as fired
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01:00:58 Pozyomka joins (~pyon@user/pyon)
01:02:55 × haltingsolver quits (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Remote host closed the connection)
01:03:15 haltingsolver joins (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc)
01:05:28 × Googulator11 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-03fa-d858-cbac-c845-1acf.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed)
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01:05:45 Tuplanolla joins (~Tuplanoll@91-159-187-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
01:06:23 polykernel joins (~polykerne@user/polykernel)
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01:48:55 × foo2 quits (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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02:27:52 × Everything quits (~Everythin@static.208.206.21.65.clients.your-server.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
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09:20:40 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: _etags_? WHAT
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09:20:51 <tomsmeding> is there an emacs in my ghcup?
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09:21:39 <tomsmeding> it has been fixed (?)
09:21:48 <tomsmeding> I ran `ghcup tui` and exited the tui
09:22:10 <tomsmeding> geekosaur: thanks!
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13:17:46 <mreh> is there an extension to tell GHC to derive an instance via the class defaults rather than somethinge else, like StandaloneNewtypeDeriving
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13:18:25 <mreh> I've got a newtype over ReaderT, but I want to derive a generic MonadReader instance
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13:20:07 <tomsmeding> mreh: DeriveAnyClass?
13:20:17 <tomsmeding> though I would be more explicit and write a separate instance declaration without a body
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13:21:02 <mreh> tomsmeding: yeah, and using DerivingStrategies?
13:21:17 <tomsmeding> DerivingVia specifically, I guess you mean?
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13:21:30 <tomsmeding> that's just a steerable GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving
13:21:41 <tomsmeding> and though I'm not 100% clear on what you want, it sounds like you don't want that
13:22:27 <mreh> I think I'm probably confused
13:22:42 <[exa]> mreh: perhaps what's the higher-level goal?
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13:24:42 <[exa]> (my understanding now is that you want "undo" the specifics added by that newtype of yours?)
13:24:54 <mreh> I was thinking there's an instance for MonadReader for ReaderT other than the obvious. I'm wrapping ReaderT in a newtype to create a new monad transformer, but I want a MonadReader instance where MonadReadr m => t m a.
13:25:37 <mreh> where t is my transformer
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13:26:09 <mreh> is this making any sense?
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13:27:19 <tomsmeding> please post your type and the instance that you want to generate
13:27:26 <tomsmeding> because it doesn't to me :P
13:28:08 <[exa]> yeah it looks like this should be obviously Just Working, so there's going to be something to realize over the code
13:28:31 <mreh> newtype MemoT m a = MemoT { unMemoT :: ReaderT e m a } -- roughly
13:29:25 <mreh> instance MonadReader e m => MonadReader e (MemoT m) -- instance I want
13:29:35 <mreh> I'm getting over a cold, so I might be typing gibberish
13:29:39 <tomsmeding> I see
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13:30:08 <tomsmeding> I don't think there's an extension that'll get you that automatically
13:30:59 <[exa]> this could work via the wraps&unwraps from lenses
13:31:04 <mreh> well, it's MonadTrans, so it should be easy enough
13:31:06 <tomsmeding> if you need to do this pattern many times, you could write a newtype that has this particular behaviour and use that with DerivingVia
13:31:55 <mreh> interesting
13:32:02 <tomsmeding> but for a one-off, that's pointless
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13:33:04 <mreh> I just got confused, if it was wrapping any other transformer it would be easy via GeneralisedNewtypeDeriving
13:33:29 <[exa]> mreh: if I got it right you essentially need the deriving thing to only realize that your MemoT is a no-op wrapper, which sounds very similar to me like what is used in `ala` here: https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/lens-5.3.5/docs/Control-Lens-Combinators.html#v:ala
13:33:44 <[exa]> so maybe you could do a generic instance such as
13:33:48 <tomsmeding> mreh: it would be, but only if this other transformer implements MonadReader in the way you want
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13:33:57 <tomsmeding> which indeed is all other transformers in mtl, because of how mtl is designed
13:34:00 <mreh> [exa] interesting
13:34:04 <mreh> tomsmeding: correct
13:34:34 <mreh> I am not very much up to speed with everything in lens
13:34:40 <tomsmeding> [exa]: mreh wants the MonadReader instance on MemoT to use the MonadReader instance on m, "skipping" the one from ReaderT
13:34:52 <tomsmeding> I don't see how any lens tricks are going to make this easier
13:35:05 <tomsmeding> the MonadReader methods are so trivial you should just write them by hand, and in any case there's `lift`
13:35:20 <mreh> yeah, I could have probably done it by now!
13:35:21 <mreh> thanks
13:35:23 <[exa]> instance (MonadReader e m, Rewrapping m m') => MonadReader e m' ...
13:35:34 <tomsmeding> mreh: it's useful to think about other ways of achieving the same thing sometimes :)
13:35:39 <[exa]> tomsmeding: actually these are not lenses per se, just one of the 49529425793845 useful things packed together in the lens library
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13:36:20 <mreh> I sometimes wonder if ekmett is some kind of superintelligence
13:36:31 <[exa]> type-level intelligence
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13:43:25 <mreh> tomsmeding: I just watched Richard Eisenberg's videos about deriving mechanisms and got a bit excited when I thought I could use some of that knowledge
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17:02:28 <boonochrom> Wonder no more! ekmett is some kind of superintelligence! :)
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All times are in UTC on 2025-11-01.