Logs on 2025-11-09 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:24:43 | <EvanR> | ehm... a haskell compiler written in C? o_O |
| 00:25:01 | <EvanR> | sounds like a match made in hell |
| 00:29:37 | <monochrom> | No no, the other way, a C compiler written in Haskell. :) |
| 00:31:48 | <geekosaur> | simplified (non-extension-using?) Haskell |
| 00:32:49 | <EvanR> | the 2nd step |
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| 00:34:26 | <EvanR> | the haskell written in C just doesn't seem to be doing anyone any favors, esp if you don't have a C compiler |
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| 00:36:02 | <tccq> | microhs compiles to ANSI C. This exists and seems to work fine as far as I can tell. It's written in haskell mostly |
| 00:36:13 | <tccq> | I want a ANSI C compiler written in haskell |
| 00:36:43 | <tccq> | and by simple I mean not using every possible extension |
| 00:36:54 | <tccq> | though many are supported by microhs so it's not a hard requirement |
| 00:37:05 | <EvanR> | ok so microhaskell wasn't written in C, makes sense xD |
| 00:37:21 | <tccq> | yup |
| 00:38:18 | <EvanR> | https://github.com/dmytro-feshchenko/haskell-c-compiler |
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| 00:39:28 | <tccq> | that's the "educational resource" I referenced. You'll not that the repo contains literally nothing useful as far as I can tell |
| 00:39:40 | <tccq> | at least in terms of compiling C |
| 00:39:52 | <EvanR> | yes it contains nearly nothing nevermind |
| 00:39:58 | <tccq> | I find that |
| 00:40:01 | <tccq> | and some forks of it |
| 00:40:03 | <tccq> | but nothing else |
| 00:40:08 | <EvanR> | I'm sure there's one lying around somewhere |
| 00:40:08 | <tccq> | perhaps it's on me then |
| 00:40:22 | <tccq> | but yes I would be extremely surprised that there isn't anything |
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| 01:45:34 | <fgarcia> | writing something that does haskell to Llvmir could be fun. though i am weird and like lto |
| 01:48:33 | <tccq> | perhaps I'm misremembering but that's basically what GRIN does right? |
| 01:49:00 | <tccq> | lto is indeed cool though |
| 01:49:14 | <tccq> | whole program optimization my beloved |
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| 09:31:55 | <kaol> | Is there something like Void but that's * -> *? Sort of like Maybe that's guaranteed to always be Nothing. |
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| 09:33:00 | <humasect> | a -> () ? |
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| 09:35:48 | <tomsmeding> | a -> Void, rather |
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| 09:36:19 | <tomsmeding> | kaol: should there be a value of this type or not? "Maybe that is always Nothing" has 1 value (Nothing); VOid has 0 values |
| 09:37:08 | <tomsmeding> | If yes then `Const ()`; if no then `Const Void` |
| 09:37:18 | <tomsmeding> | (Data.Functor.Const in base) |
| 09:37:20 | <dibblego> | I understand the question to mean: newtype X a; |
| 09:37:33 | <tomsmeding> | a newtype must have one constructor |
| 09:37:37 | <dibblego> | er, data |
| 09:37:49 | <tomsmeding> | but then it's not like Void |
| 09:38:03 | <tomsmeding> | it's more like (), and either `data X a` indeed, or `Const ()`, works |
| 09:38:27 | <tomsmeding> | bah my brain this morning |
| 09:38:48 | <tomsmeding> | one of these, exercise for the reader to figure out which |
| 09:39:53 | <kaol> | I was thinking that if I have some data Foo a = { foo :: a Int } then I can have Foo Identity to have something that always has a foo and Foo Maybe that would optionally have a foo. I wondered whether there is some Foo X that would give me a data that'd have no foo. |
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| 09:40:52 | <tomsmeding> | Const Void |
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| 09:47:17 | <kaol> | I'm not sure if I can have any values having that type. I'd still like to have a record containing the other fields. |
| 09:47:40 | <tomsmeding> | oh I see |
| 09:47:44 | <tomsmeding> | then Const () :) |
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| 09:49:10 | <kaol> | Neat. I'm not sure if I need it after all but I started still thinking that surely there's a Type -> Type for this case too. |
| 09:51:13 | <tomsmeding> | kaol: as dibblego mentioned, you don't need predefined types for this, and in fact it might be more intuitive to write your own; the "no values at all" is `data None a` (isomorphic to Const Void), and the "exactly one value" is `data One a = One` (isomorphic to Const ()) |
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| 09:54:01 | <kaol> | I may need the construct across multiple modules and then I'd be better off using the same data One a = One via an import and if I import then I could get it from a library as well. |
| 09:55:04 | <tomsmeding> | fair |
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| 10:07:31 | <Leary> | kaol: `Data.Proxy` |
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| 10:10:01 | <kaol> | Why didn't I think of that. Thanks. |
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| 10:10:51 | <kaol> | It's a nice new angle to think of what it does. |
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| 13:54:29 | <__monty__> | `lsb x = x .&. negate x` is such a cheat. |
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| 13:59:35 | <fgarcia> | > 10 .&. negate 10 |
| 13:59:37 | <lambdabot> | 2 |
| 14:00:05 | tomsmeding | . o O ( negate x = complement x + 1 ) |
| 14:00:24 | <tomsmeding> | it's a famous bithack |
| 14:00:36 | <fgarcia> | > 24 .&. negate 24 |
| 14:00:38 | <lambdabot> | 8 |
| 14:01:36 | <fgarcia> | i like math tricks! :) |
| 14:01:44 | <tomsmeding> | > [x .&. negate x | x <- [1..20]] |
| 14:01:46 | <lambdabot> | [1,2,1,4,1,2,1,8,1,2,1,4,1,2,1,16,1,2,1,4] |
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| 14:04:08 | <tomsmeding> | if x is not zero, it ends with some zeros (0 or more), a one, and then some zeros (0 or more); say 01000. ~01000 = 10111; -01000 = 10111 + 1 = 11000 |
| 14:04:28 | <__monty__> | I saw it applied in the context of Clash's BitVector, so it was absolutely not obvious that negate would be two's complement. |
| 14:04:58 | <tomsmeding> | interesting |
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| 15:04:40 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | https://github.mpg.is/wasm-game/ -- wow,... i was expecting it to be jittery and have big GC pauses and stuff,... it runs so smooth on my machine,... incredible |
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| 16:08:06 | <kaol> | segfaultfizzbuzz: https://github.com/dmjio/miso?tab=readme-ov-file#examples has more Haskell+WASM examples, with Miso framework. |
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| 16:17:57 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> nice eh! wish they'd fix the ball :) |
| 16:18:23 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> could be a new era for haskell games |
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| 20:09:42 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | is there anything special which was done (like the newer low latency GC) to the compilation for the linked wasm game? |
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| 20:14:13 | <segfaultfizzbuzz> | i don't see any special build flags in the build script or anything in the cabal file |
| 20:14:29 | <int-e> | I think it just doesn't allocate much so GC is really fast |
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| 20:35:02 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> in fairness this is a Very Small Game |
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| 20:35:43 | <EvanR> | the more live data in the heap, the more gc work there is |
| 20:36:00 | <EvanR> | unless you can figure out some shenanigan with compact region |
| 20:36:53 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> but https://allureofthestars.com/play/ is plenty fast (but that's ghcjs I guess) |
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| 20:56:52 | <int-e> | EvanR: if all else fails you can allocate everything on the JS side instead ;-) |
| 20:58:17 | <int-e> | (and do all work with little imports like https://github.com/Tritlo/wasm-game/blob/main/src/Lib.hs#L328-L329 ) |
| 21:00:49 | <int-e> | (The smiley is because you're trading GC time and marshalling overhead.) |
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| 21:19:42 | <EvanR> | yeah FFI overhead |
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| 21:34:01 | <Square3> | Has there been any progress on getting the required changes to LLVM for ghc-wasm backend? |
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| 23:11:32 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:b9c6:2c55:4165:c029) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 23:17:24 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:19:07 | hololeap_ | is now known as hololeap |
| 23:21:03 | × | CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 23:22:00 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 23:22:30 | → | haltingsolver joins (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) |
| 23:33:10 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:39:55 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 23:40:52 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 23:51:15 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:55:44 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:56:56 | → | jmcantrell joins (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) |
| 23:58:08 | × | bitdex quits (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
All times are in UTC on 2025-11-09.