Logs on 2025-11-12 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:39:25 | <john4> | hai |
| 00:41:51 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:42:06 | <john4> | why Haskell bad type system |
| 00:43:29 | → | solar joins (~sailor@82.222.122.165) |
| 00:43:32 | <int-e> | why the confrontational premise |
| 00:43:44 | <john4> | hello solar |
| 00:43:48 | <john4> | it's me |
| 00:43:51 | <john4> | Dio |
| 00:44:05 | <john4> | because types aren't type safe |
| 00:44:27 | <john4> | Unlike in good dependently typed languages with first class records *wink* |
| 00:44:31 | <john4> | benim gardas |
| 00:44:47 | <solar> | tamamdır |
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| 00:44:58 | <john4> | lmao |
| 00:45:00 | <john4> | ozur |
| 00:45:02 | <solar> | :))) |
| 00:45:03 | → | deptype_ joins (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:73c2:38c9:be26:79f8:86b8) |
| 00:45:20 | <solar> | i hate oop, xml, uml etc |
| 00:45:27 | <john4> | amen |
| 00:45:35 | <solar> | btw i'm not a type of declaretive programmer |
| 00:45:58 | <solar> | just wanted to be see what u all talking |
| 00:46:14 | <john4> | Sunu derim, Turing makinesi'yle lambda kalkulu ikisi de tam komputasyon modelleri |
| 00:46:16 | × | acidjnk quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171989dd8db5c7ed4575d8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 00:46:25 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 00:46:29 | <solar> | hahaha ıbdsaıhbıw biliyorum biliyorum |
| 00:46:35 | <solar> | sen hiç elm dilini duydun mu? |
| 00:46:42 | <john4> | duydum |
| 00:46:43 | <solar> | web development yapabilirsin |
| 00:46:47 | → | acidjnk joins (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171961bd4b6122a2993081.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:46:52 | <john4> | FRP'ye dalarken |
| 00:47:28 | <john4> | bilmem, J*vascript egilimi var gibi geldi de, ama tekrar bi bakarim |
| 00:48:02 | <solar> | elixir ve phoenix framework u ile de web development yapılabilir çok güçlü aletler |
| 00:48:21 | <solar> | herkes bi gün erlang sanal makinesinin değerini bilecek! |
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| 00:49:01 | <solar> | couchdb de erlang üzeri çalışıyor diye hatırlıyorum |
| 00:49:06 | <john4> | heh, bir gun herkez dizi bukecek diyon |
| 00:49:48 | <john4> | erlang sanirim duydum da hic dogru duzgun bakmadim |
| 00:50:14 | <solar> | tele komünikasyon firmalarının gözdesi |
| 00:50:45 | <solar> | ulike i said before, i'm not a declaretive programmer not some OOP fanboy either |
| 00:51:16 | <solar> | love the pointer system of golang |
| 00:51:32 | <john4> | errors as values eh? |
| 00:51:35 | <solar> | this is the real purity |
| 00:51:41 | <solar> | idk |
| 00:52:07 | <john4> | heh, aslinda sey |
| 00:52:17 | <solar> | evet? |
| 00:52:24 | <john4> | Fonksiyonel progrmalamayi sevme sebebim cogunlukla matematikten |
| 00:52:33 | <john4> | Curry-Howard'dan duydun mu? |
| 00:52:55 | <solar> | tanımıyorum |
| 00:53:23 | <solar> | daha çok analitik tipte bir matematik tecihimdir, fazla komplike işlemler beynimi yakıyor |
| 00:53:26 | <solar> | basit olmalı |
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| 00:54:06 | <john4> | Programlamayla mantigi farkli kurallar ve degerlerle ayni seyi yaptiginin adi |
| 00:54:18 | <john4> | yani gizlice es seyler |
| 00:54:27 | <solar> | bu doğru sadece "aynı şey" pek benlik değil |
| 00:54:29 | × | Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-159-187-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 00:54:34 | <solar> | 0101010 lerin mantık çorbası |
| 00:55:14 | <john4> | kafayi iyice karistiriyo mu diyon |
| 00:55:34 | <john4> | yani, fonskiyonel programlamayi sevdigim neden mantik ve programlama arasindaki en basit kopru |
| 00:55:53 | <solar> | mantıklı |
| 00:56:26 | <solar> | oop paradigmasını oldum olalı sevmedim, basit bir yola fazla komplike eylemlerle ulaşma olduğunu düşündüm hep(ve keza öyle) |
| 00:56:50 | <john4> | aslinda, kategori teorisini de bagliyor o da cok daha genel ve guclu structure dili; matematigin gecen yuzyildaki en buyuk kesifleri fikirlerine biraz bagli |
| 00:57:17 | <solar> | bu doğru |
| 00:57:23 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:57:29 | <john4> | OOP'nin prensiplerininnasil bozuk oldugunu ogrenince terk ettim |
| 00:57:50 | <john4> | Encapsulation 5'ten fazla obje olunca cokuyor |
| 00:58:10 | <solar> | eskiden beridir sevmiyordum üstelik çoğu popüler dil(python gibi) bu işlemi çok komplike yollarla yerine getireiyor |
| 00:58:22 | <solar> | doğru |
| 00:58:31 | <john4> | onlar da daha da karistiroyr OOP'i diyon |
| 00:58:46 | <solar> | en temiz oop sistemi bana göre ruby de fakat balık baştan kokar |
| 00:59:08 | <solar> | pointer lar ile bellek üzerinden işlemler yapmanın verdiği haz bambaşka |
| 00:59:08 | <john4> | hm, gormezden gelmek imkansiz gibi |
| 00:59:16 | <john4> | hehe |
| 00:59:39 | <john4> | neydi, `* (*char) = 0;` |
| 00:59:43 | <geekosaur> | I'd just like to point out that this channel is generally in English, not Türkçe. I don't think there's a #haskell-tu |
| 00:59:48 | <solar> | aynen :) |
| 00:59:55 | <solar> | sorry for that |
| 00:59:56 | <john4> | evil |
| 01:00:09 | <john4> | we have come to carve out a better channel |
| 01:00:20 | <john4> | under a crescent moon |
| 01:00:45 | <john4> | but ye, apologies, y'all mind if we yap in karaboga? |
| 01:00:48 | <geekosaur> | (I can recognize it but know very little, sorry. OTOH enough terminology got lifted from English that I can partially follow it 🙂 |
| 01:01:08 | <geekosaur> | you could use #haskell-in-depth since nobody's using it for its original purpose |
| 01:01:10 | <john4> | a few loan words here & there, ya say? |
| 01:01:21 | <john4> | uyar mi gardas? |
| 01:01:34 | <solar> | sounds good |
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| 01:03:15 | <geekosaur> | jargon's always a mess. English FP discussions are actually as bad, but nobody really thinks about it |
| 01:03:51 | <geekosaur> | other fields are worse, Greek / Latin / German / French / etc. all over the place 🙂 |
| 01:04:30 | <solar> | nah don't judge them they're just trying to talk eachother we should be thankful that youngster are interested in irc protocol :) |
| 01:05:10 | <geekosaur> | we are bridged to matrix, for those who prefer that (#haskell-irc:matrix.org) |
| 01:05:22 | <geekosaur> | (#haskell-in-depth isn't, though) |
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| 09:28:16 | <Enrico63> | Hi there. Does the "HT" in Control.Monad.HT and utility-ht stand for the author's name, HenningThielemann? |
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| 09:31:08 | <Enrico63> | ... out of curiosity. |
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| 09:42:54 | <kuribas> | Enrico63: seems plausible. |
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| 10:00:14 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> In some of my old projects you can find a custom prelude named morjlude. A bit more obvious with this one |
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| 10:08:35 | <merijn> | Enrico63: That would certainly match his...ecclectic...naming habits |
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| 10:11:01 | <Enrico63> | merijn, ahahah, like what? In the list at https://hackage.haskell.org/user/HenningThielemann I see ... "toilet", but not much strange names |
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| 10:24:25 | <mauke> | Enrico63: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/unique-logic-0.4.0.1/docs/doc-index.html count the number of classes named 'C' and types named 'T' |
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| 10:25:25 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Maybe it's just ocaml-style! |
| 10:25:51 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Nah, doesn't look like it |
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| 10:46:27 | <__monty__> | Meant to be used fully qualified? |
| 10:47:29 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Yeah, ocaml-style. I thought that maybe not because there are other datatype definitions in the same module |
| 10:48:48 | <merijn> | I guess we're still talking Henning's naming? He's a believer you should always use everything qualified and his naming scheme basically forces you too, but it also results in completely unreadable hackage docs >.> |
| 10:51:06 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Actually a based opinion if he were writing rust |
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| 10:52:29 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Though you remind me that I wrote this piece of code yesterday: "mimeRender _ = Data.ByteString.Lazy.fromStrict . Data.Text.Encoding.encodeUtf8" - and then made HLS auto-add the qualified import, and it was nice |
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| 10:56:11 | <tomsmeding> | Morj: HLS even manages to auto-add the qualified import sometimes if you write `Lazy.fromStrict` |
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| 10:59:25 | <merijn> | Morj: I mean some modules are explicitly intended for qualified imports, but generally people use abbreviations |
| 10:59:54 | <merijn> | I always import ByteString/lazy ByteString as BS and LBS respectictively, T for Data.Text, etc. |
| 11:00:11 | <merijn> | Fully written out qualification is for mad men |
| 11:00:33 | <__monty__> | So you litter your code with expletives instead?! : > |
| 11:00:37 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I prefer a way like tоmsmeding said, and using ByteString, LazyByteString, Text instead of abbreviations |
| 11:03:29 | <merijn> | BS/LBS/T and M/IM/S/IS for Map, IntMap, Set, and IntSet from containers are all pretty widely used |
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| 11:12:21 | <bwe> | `try` in Megaparsec backtracks on failure, how can I backtrack on succeeding? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/megaparsec-9.7.0/docs/Text-Megaparsec.html#v:try |
| 11:13:18 | <bwe> | (I am trying to write a parser that runs two parsers on the same input and it should return only if both parsers are successful) |
| 11:15:38 | <merijn> | bwe: That sounds like the wrong question. Sounds like the real question is "how can I feed the same input to two parsers"? |
| 11:16:53 | <bwe> | merijn: It is. How do I feed the same input to two parsers (without resorting to call parseMaybe twice in a wrapper function that's no longer :: Parser ParsedResult)? |
| 11:16:54 | <merijn> | Is there something like `lookahead` |
| 11:19:02 | <bwe> | merijn: There is `lookAhead`. Though I feel right now I'm trying the wrong problem, I actually need to parse word for word and based on the list should decide whether I have simultaneous occurence of both: "foo bar A foo bar B" should extract "A" and "B" |
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| 11:22:58 | <merijn> | bwe: Yeah, `lookAhead` does what you described wanting, but the real question is "is what you want sensible for a parser" :p |
| 11:23:14 | <merijn> | bwe: What exactly are you trying to parse? |
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| 11:34:45 | <__monty__> | bwe: Can you be a bit more specific because so far it just sounds like sequencing, no? `lexeme fooParser *> lexeme barParser *> lexeme abParser` |
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| 11:49:05 | <tomsmeding> | bwe: taking a guess as to what you need: perhaps parse have a single parser that parses into a [Either A B], and then post-process that list? |
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| 11:50:24 | <bwe> | merijn: A list of chemical elements and their compounds. At times, I've got only the elementary form, at times, I've got the compound form, at times both (as multiple words in random order with other words interspersed). I'd like to parse and differentiate the three cases. |
| 11:50:36 | <tomsmeding> | (in effect this is putting one level of concrete syntax between the actual string and your desired abstract representation) |
| 11:53:44 | <bwe> | tomsmeding: I realised recently that I need to parse the given string word for word and then go over the result to construct the three cases. (My frustration basically stem from attempting to read the desired abstract representation right away.) |
| 11:54:09 | <tomsmeding> | parsing in multiple passes has plenty of precedent |
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| 11:55:31 | <tomsmeding> | for a rather horrific example: when GHC first parses a Haskell file, it doesn't care about operator associativity and just plunks them in a tree somehow. Then it finds all the infixl/infixr etc. declarations, and then it goes over the parsed file again and fixes all the operator trees so that they're correctly associated |
| 11:56:16 | <tomsmeding> | "horrific" as in "if you haven't realised this is happening you think 'surely this can be done better'", not as in "this is a bad solution", because it's a very sensible solution to the problem of user-specified operator associativities |
| 11:56:51 | <tomsmeding> | for a somewhat related idea, though not quite the same, see nanopass compilation |
| 11:56:54 | <Lycurgus> | single pass: easy job |
| 11:56:56 | <bwe> | How does the second pass still have the type `:: Parser Result` and refrains from calling functions like `parseMaybe`? |
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| 11:57:22 | <tomsmeding> | bwe: in your case I expect the second pass to be a pure function, not a parser, although that pure function might return an Error String Result |
| 11:57:38 | <tomsmeding> | *Either String Result, of course |
| 11:57:58 | <Lycurgus> | since like forever parsing and compiling has involved a min of 2, lex then parse |
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| 11:59:35 | <Lycurgus> | the antedeluvian days b4 aho and ullman |
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| 12:28:11 | <kuribas> | tomsmeding: that sounds sensible. Multiple phases are easier than putting everything in a single phase. |
| 12:28:39 | <tomsmeding> | then exercise: fuse the passes :p |
| 12:28:45 | <tomsmeding> | (not necessarily a good idea for readability) |
| 12:29:16 | <kuribas> | tomsmeding: and I think haskell parsing is complicated enough :) |
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| 12:36:54 | bwe | was told that Haskell being a language great for parsing. |
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| 12:42:27 | <__monty__> | Great for parsing but hard to parse. |
| 12:42:37 | <__monty__> | At least for computers. |
| 12:42:48 | <kuribas> | __monty__: not just computers... |
| 12:43:12 | <kuribas> | Look how many people have difficulty with layout-rule. |
| 12:43:56 | <__monty__> | It has some difficult nuances but TBH I think it's a bit of a victim of its own success. |
| 12:44:31 | <__monty__> | It's usually so flexible that when you run into a hard constraint it feels worse. |
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| 12:51:52 | <lucabtz> | do you think writing a pandoc writer could be a good exercise to practice some haskell? |
| 12:52:33 | <kuribas> | lucabtz: sure |
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| 12:53:51 | <lucabtz> | it doesnt seem too hard, but still there seem to be some challenge in having to deal with preexisting code. also i think i could be motivated by the fact it would actually be useful to someone |
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| 14:32:58 | <Enrico63> | Is there a way to silence warnings about head/tail in a single source file? |
| 14:34:39 | <Leary> | Enrico63: `{-# OPTIONS_GHC -Wno-x-partial #-}` |
| 14:35:08 | <Enrico63> | Oh, I tried `{-# OPTIONS_GHC -Wno-partial-functions #-}` and did not work. Let me try this one you say |
| 14:35:20 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> HLS usually suggests disabling specific warnings as a code action on the line with the warning |
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| 18:13:07 | <dutchie> | ghc user guide is 503ing :( |
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| 18:53:28 | <dutchie> | ah back now |
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| 19:17:40 | <[exa]> | dutchie: it gets occasionally pwned by scrapers |
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| 21:36:31 | <tomsmeding> | why does the current recommended GHC version in ghcup not have a prebuilt HLS? |
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| 21:37:32 | <tomsmeding> | I advised the ghcup recommended ghc version to students without thinking but now I realise that they're not going to have a working HLS |
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| 21:39:46 | <tomsmeding> | oh wait it does? |
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| 21:45:54 | <tomsmeding> | for reference: https://github.com/haskell/ghcup-metadata/pull/343 |
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| 22:53:16 | × | Zemy_ quits (~Zemy@2600:100c:b055:261e:848a:e6ff:fef6:b5fe) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 22:53:50 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 22:54:46 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:7d:cf52:961a:9343) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 22:56:39 | → | haltingsolver joins (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000:d250:ea0c:366a:6e73) |
| 22:57:16 | × | __monty__ quits (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 22:58:25 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:09:20 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:11:37 | × | deptype_ quits (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:73c2:3633:19f7:985:2a24) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:11:49 | → | deptype_ joins (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:73c2:c419:66dc:62ff:e4ce) |
| 23:14:14 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 23:19:21 | → | jcarpenter2 joins (~lol@2603:3016:1e01:b980:ad60:68d3:e3fb:e267) |
| 23:19:41 | → | trickard__ joins (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 23:19:49 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 23:19:58 | → | Sgeo joins (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 23:24:43 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:29:43 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 23:31:39 | × | deptype_ quits (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:73c2:c419:66dc:62ff:e4ce) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:31:58 | → | deptype_ joins (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:73c2:d197:6867:8e4a:9b4) |
| 23:37:25 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 23:39:01 | × | trickard__ quits (~trickard@cpe-62-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 23:40:12 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:40:13 | × | Zemy quits (~Zemy@12.50.240.58) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:40:19 | → | Zemy_ joins (~Zemy@2600:100c:b055:261e:ec3f:92ff:feb1:6756) |
| 23:44:39 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 23:45:40 | × | jcarpenter2 quits (~lol@2603:3016:1e01:b980:ad60:68d3:e3fb:e267) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 23:46:49 | × | haltingsolver quits (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000:d250:ea0c:366a:6e73) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:47:12 | → | haltingsolver joins (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) |
| 23:51:41 | × | deptype_ quits (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:73c2:d197:6867:8e4a:9b4) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:51:53 | → | deptype_ joins (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:73c2:5136:a01d:b111:9231) |
| 23:52:30 | → | Zemy joins (~Zemy@72.178.108.235) |
| 23:55:35 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:56:10 | × | Zemy_ quits (~Zemy@2600:100c:b055:261e:ec3f:92ff:feb1:6756) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 23:59:55 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
All times are in UTC on 2025-11-12.