Logs on 2025-11-21 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:02:40 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 00:03:34 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:08:28 | × | Lycurgus quits (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org )) |
| 00:08:29 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 00:12:21 | <Square2> | hackage package search seems OOS. Cloudflare? |
| 00:15:54 | → | karenw joins (~karenw@user/karenw) |
| 00:17:25 | × | karenw quits (~karenw@user/karenw) (Client Quit) |
| 00:17:37 | → | karenw joins (~karenw@user/karenw) |
| 00:19:07 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:20:42 | → | Googulator52 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 00:20:47 | × | Googulator87 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 00:22:00 | × | Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-152-225-194.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 00:24:10 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 00:25:58 | → | williu5 joins (~williu5@user/williu5) |
| 00:27:29 | → | peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) |
| 00:30:20 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Quit: Leaving...) |
| 00:34:19 | × | sindu quits (~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 00:34:23 | × | ljdarj quits (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:34:39 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:39:33 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 00:45:05 | × | xff0x quits (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:8837:488e:4fa1:2e) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 00:48:09 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:52:52 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 01:03:34 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:06:51 | → | omidmash6 joins (~omidmash@user/omidmash) |
| 01:08:28 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 01:08:41 | × | omidmash quits (~omidmash@user/omidmash) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 01:08:41 | omidmash6 | is now known as omidmash |
| 01:13:07 | × | vetkat quits (~vetkat@user/vetkat) (Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish) |
| 01:15:52 | → | bggd joins (~bgg@2a01:e0a:819:1510:3835:521f:ca74:58be) |
| 01:18:56 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:22:41 | → | ert485 joins (~ert485@207.195.86.11) |
| 01:22:48 | → | vetkat joins (~vetkat@user/vetkat) |
| 01:23:21 | × | ert485 quits (~ert485@207.195.86.11) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 01:23:24 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 01:23:58 | → | mange joins (~mange@user/mange) |
| 01:24:51 | → | ert485 joins (~ert485@207.195.86.11) |
| 01:27:13 | × | synchrom1 quits (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:394c:fa0b:5fac:c256) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 01:28:35 | → | synchromesh joins (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:58f6:2167:890b:2ed2) |
| 01:28:46 | × | acidjnk quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e71719764cede409c055dd1e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 01:28:54 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 01:29:06 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 01:30:01 | × | ert485 quits (~ert485@207.195.86.11) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 01:32:11 | × | califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 01:34:18 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:34:34 | → | ert485 joins (~ert485@207.195.86.11) |
| 01:34:59 | × | ert485 quits (~ert485@207.195.86.11) (Client Quit) |
| 01:35:21 | → | AlexNoo_ joins (~AlexNoo@94.233.240.123) |
| 01:37:04 | × | AlexZenon quits (~alzenon@178.34.162.20) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 01:38:51 | × | AlexNoo quits (~AlexNoo@178.34.162.20) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 01:40:18 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Quit: peterbecich) |
| 01:40:23 | → | aditya_an1l joins (~aditya_an@user/aditya-an1l:63825) |
| 01:41:14 | → | xff0x joins (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
| 01:41:30 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 01:41:44 | × | itaipu quits (~itaipu@168.121.97.28) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 01:42:56 | × | ubert1 quits (~Thunderbi@178.165.175.248.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Quit: ubert1) |
| 01:43:12 | → | ert485 joins (~ert485@207.195.86.11) |
| 01:43:24 | × | ert485 quits (~ert485@207.195.86.11) (Client Quit) |
| 01:43:26 | → | califax joins (~califax@user/califx) |
| 01:49:14 | <chromoblob> | [exa]: sorry, what? what's "act"? |
| 01:52:21 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:55:01 | → | itaipu joins (~itaipu@168.121.97.28) |
| 01:56:55 | → | AlexZenon joins (~alzenon@94.233.240.123) |
| 01:57:19 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 01:57:55 | × | mange quits (~mange@user/mange) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 02:02:52 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 02:03:05 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 02:06:03 | × | haltingsolver quits (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 02:06:26 | → | haltingsolver joins (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) |
| 02:07:44 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:08:25 | → | marlino joins (~marlino@96-8-193-95.block0.gvtc.com) |
| 02:12:08 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 02:13:19 | × | L29Ah quits (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 02:20:43 | → | Googulator87 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 02:20:51 | × | Googulator52 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 02:23:08 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:26:02 | → | L29Ah joins (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 02:27:40 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 02:29:44 | × | down200 quits (~down200@shell.lug.mtu.edu) (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) |
| 02:32:11 | × | connrs quits (~connrs@user/connrs) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 02:32:23 | → | connrs joins (~connrs@user/connrs) |
| 02:38:31 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:39:03 | <sam113101> | I'm not happy with the performance of haskell |
| 02:39:37 | <sam113101> | make code takes 30s to run will it takes 2s in most other languages |
| 02:40:17 | <jreicher> | How do you know the language is the problem and not your code? |
| 02:40:48 | <monochrom> | I'll just say I never had that problem, so I can't reproduce it. |
| 02:41:13 | <monochrom> | If it's 4 seconds vs 2 seconds, I had that usually, sure. Not 30 vs 2. |
| 02:41:30 | <sam113101> | I think I reproduced the same algorithm faithfully across the multiple languages |
| 02:41:40 | <sam113101> | but it might still be me indeed |
| 02:41:42 | <fgarcia> | this is after it has been compiled? :O |
| 02:42:48 | <EvanR> | it could very well be the case you translate an imperative algorithm to haskell using some bespoke monad and it slows down |
| 02:43:08 | <EvanR> | but if you translated haskell algorithms to C it would also slow down |
| 02:43:22 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 02:43:37 | <fgarcia> | and i think for haskell, correctness is the first thing that is implemented. speed is a bit of a bonus. for languages, assembly or C++ would probably be faster as i think they advertise execution speed |
| 02:43:43 | <EvanR> | it's programming language relativistic time dilation |
| 02:44:09 | <monochrom> | @quote monochrom einstein |
| 02:44:10 | <lambdabot> | monochrom says: einstein's theory implies that haskell cannot be faster than c |
| 02:44:38 | <jreicher> | sam113101: have you attempted any kind of explicit state change in the code? |
| 02:45:04 | <sam113101> | https://paste.centos.org/view/016a1c20 |
| 02:45:10 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> sam113101: if you post it somewhere, like the discourse, people will show you how to make it fast |
| 02:45:20 | <jreicher> | hailstone numbers. :) |
| 02:47:19 | <sam113101> | the elixir version: https://paste.centos.org/view/raw/9ea27c56 |
| 02:47:26 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> aha there it is. Im no expert at this but repeatedly getting the length of lists is wasteful |
| 02:47:31 | <monochrom> | Probably this: You think "length xs" takes O(1) time, my students do too. No, it takes Ω(length xs) time. |
| 02:47:53 | <monochrom> | Sometimes I even put that on exams. |
| 02:48:34 | <monochrom> | And some other times, "a student coded up `isEmpty xs = length xs == 0`, why is it stupid?" |
| 02:48:44 | <jreicher> | I think that's more because a list isn't just a list in other languages. |
| 02:50:02 | <EvanR> | strlen in C is also not O(1), which no one is surprised by |
| 02:50:37 | <jreicher> | That's a nice comparison. it's probably because they know what a string "really" is in C. |
| 02:50:59 | <sam113101> | well it's a linked list in haskell right? it's also a linked list in elixir |
| 02:51:11 | <monochrom> | And some other other times, I make a question that goes "design a list data structure that caches length, and code up prepend, append, etc." |
| 02:51:17 | <jreicher> | With extra book keeping which, if you also did in Haskell, would give you the performance you expect. |
| 02:52:02 | <sam113101> | oh really? didn't know about this "book keeping" |
| 02:52:17 | <EvanR> | the length of a list in elixir is also not O(1) |
| 02:52:32 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> why don't we have this magical bookkeeping 🧙♂️ |
| 02:53:23 | <EvanR> | if you're comparing the elixir code performance to haskell, then make sure you're compiling with optimizations |
| 02:53:24 | <sam113101> | it was from my understanding that you had to walk through the entire list to count it |
| 02:53:29 | <monochrom> | Probably 90% of the time if you need O(1)-time length you also need other things such that vector is better for example. |
| 02:53:55 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:54:53 | <EvanR> | if that doesn't fix it, then start looking for unintended and unhelpful (and unoptimized away) laziness |
| 02:54:56 | <monochrom> | I don't think professional Haskellers use [] as a data structure at all. They use it as for loops. Then caching lengths becomes the stupid one. |
| 02:55:03 | <EvanR> | since stuff like elixir doesn't have |
| 02:55:20 | <EvanR> | that |
| 02:55:47 | <jreicher> | Oh you're right. Elixir doesn't do this either. I didn't know. |
| 02:56:08 | → | jmcantrell joins (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) |
| 02:56:11 | <probie> | You're also calling `collatz` a lot of times; Your `maximumBy` will invoke it twice at each comparison |
| 02:56:31 | <monochrom> | or perhaps s/at all/seriously/ . E.g., short lists outside hotspots still happen. |
| 02:58:36 | <EvanR> | I'm kind of surprised the elixir code doesn't stack over flow with that kind of eager evaluation and recursion |
| 02:58:45 | <jreicher> | sam113101: why are you computing (and keeping) the chain? Why not just do the count as you go? |
| 02:58:52 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 02:58:54 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> you could add trace logging to both and it might show how much more work the haskell is doing |
| 02:59:07 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> also you could profile it |
| 02:59:18 | <EvanR> | yes there are more efficient ways to do this but the idea was the compare the "same algorithm" (ignoring the difference in evaluation strategy) in the two languages |
| 02:59:22 | <EvanR> | which we haven't actually seen yet |
| 02:59:25 | <sam113101> | jreicher: that's the way I've done it the first time and now I'm comparing languages/runtimes with the same algorithm |
| 02:59:33 | <EvanR> | show the haskell code |
| 03:00:04 | <fgarcia> | for the clauses, i wasn't sure what it did at first. you might like 'collatzChain lst@(1:_) = lst' as a pattern match |
| 03:00:07 | <monochrom> | I do wish GHC allowed multiple-module files. |
| 03:00:28 | <monochrom> | or any Haskell implementation |
| 03:01:47 | <EvanR> | on line 10 in the haskell version, you should explicitly evaluate nextCollatz x before prepending it to the list |
| 03:02:02 | <EvanR> | otherwise you're tacking on a thunk that will be evaluated later |
| 03:02:11 | <EvanR> | which has a cost and is unnecessary |
| 03:03:10 | <EvanR> | this would be automatic in elixir |
| 03:03:10 | <probie> | monochrom: I think it does, via bkp files (if that hasn't been removed yet) |
| 03:03:11 | <fgarcia> | oh that might be something like flip (:) lst $! nextCollatz x |
| 03:03:42 | <monochrom> | Probably not. the "x==1" test that happens right away will evaluate it. With -O1, the strictness analyzer will notice that and kill the laziness altogether. We can check this... |
| 03:03:44 | <jreicher> | EvanR: how is that automatic in Elixir? |
| 03:03:55 | <EvanR> | it's an eager language |
| 03:04:06 | <EvanR> | monochrom, oh... |
| 03:04:06 | <jreicher> | Oh. :) |
| 03:04:45 | <EvanR> | still worth a shot because the field is full of dead attempts to predict what GHC does |
| 03:05:58 | <EvanR> | I refuse to say more until I see the properly |
| 03:06:08 | <EvanR> | evaluation |
| 03:06:20 | <EvanR> | I refuse to say more until I see the two programs properly compared |
| 03:07:01 | <jreicher> | I also have no idea how much static analysis either language can do; they might figure out the list is actually discarded. |
| 03:07:46 | <jreicher> | And for that reason I really wouldn't code this with a list. |
| 03:08:29 | <fgarcia> | i think ghc might be detecting a lot of things. it would warn me about changing 'collatzChain lst@(x:xs)' to 'collatzChain lst@(x:_)' because xs it not used |
| 03:09:15 | <c_wraith> | It's worth spending some time learning about things that are easy to detect vs things that are hard to detect. |
| 03:09:16 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 03:09:30 | <c_wraith> | It's easy to detect a symbol is bound and not used. |
| 03:09:59 | <c_wraith> | It's a lot harder to do flow analysis to determine usage patterns across recursive calls |
| 03:10:00 | <monochrom> | Is it just because GHC uses multi-precision integers and Elixir uses 32-bit or 64-bit? |
| 03:10:30 | <EvanR> | xs not used, it's not even clear how it could compile that in any other way than "not" |
| 03:10:59 | <probie> | monochrom: I know this isn't actually what you want, but https://paste.tomsmeding.com/oqM6JwKf |
| 03:11:33 | <fgarcia> | making a collatzChain' with an accumulator might speed things up but i am not sure |
| 03:11:37 | <EvanR> | elixir's "int" or whatever it's called is notionally unlimited precision |
| 03:12:05 | <EvanR> | and does collatz grow large enough to matter (and leave the small int case of Integer's backend) |
| 03:12:11 | <monochrom> | Oh I didn't know that backpack can do that. :) |
| 03:14:41 | <monochrom> | Yikes, core says not evaluated until next time it hits the x==1 test. |
| 03:15:08 | <EvanR> | it could be worse |
| 03:15:11 | <monochrom> | Although, I would bet it only causes 2->4 not 2->30. |
| 03:15:31 | <sam113101> | I got it dows to 6s with -O2 |
| 03:15:45 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 03:16:01 | <EvanR> | that was my first suggestion! smh |
| 03:17:02 | <Leary> | sam113101: Next suggestion: write some type signatures. Believe it or not, they make your code faster. |
| 03:17:10 | <monochrom> | What is Enum.count in Elixir? |
| 03:17:24 | <EvanR> | for lists it will count the elements |
| 03:17:32 | <EvanR> | of a linked list |
| 03:18:40 | <Leary> | (the compiler can infer types, but that doesn't mean it can read your mind to infer the type you wanted to use) |
| 03:19:38 | fgarcia | hides code without signatures |
| 03:20:06 | × | chromoblob quits (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 03:20:39 | × | Googulator87 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 03:20:44 | → | chromoblob joins (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) |
| 03:20:44 | → | Googulator96 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 03:20:46 | <sam113101> | Executed in 1.36 secs |
| 03:20:50 | <sam113101> | wow it really did |
| 03:20:58 | <EvanR> | I delete all my type signatures, dare the compiler to do what I mean, without even my knowing what I mean |
| 03:21:41 | × | vanishingideal quits (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 03:22:18 | <monochrom> | Is that just because you say "Int" not "Integer"? |
| 03:22:48 | <sam113101> | I did use Int, not sure if the compiler defaulted to Integer? |
| 03:23:05 | → | vanishingideal joins (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) |
| 03:23:13 | <monochrom> | Without type signature, everything resolves to Integer. And monomorphized. (I checked the Core code.) |
| 03:23:23 | <monochrom> | Yes default Integer. |
| 03:24:34 | <fgarcia> | Do as I say. delete cosmic! |
| 03:25:15 | <monochrom> | "permission denied" |
| 03:25:35 | <monochrom> | You have to say: sudo delete cosmic and make me a sandwich :) |
| 03:26:06 | <fgarcia> | gah why is it so hard to install steam |
| 03:26:39 | <monochrom> | Fun fact: Curry has Int, it already means multi-precision. There is no bounded integer type in Curry. :) |
| 03:27:20 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 03:29:10 | <EvanR> | bounded integer is a contradiction extraordinaire |
| 03:29:12 | <monochrom> | Also, Float is already double-precision, it is the only floating point type. |
| 03:29:21 | <EvanR> | not to be confused with modular integers |
| 03:29:35 | <EvanR> | or Fin n |
| 03:29:41 | <EvanR> | *nor |
| 03:30:14 | <EvanR> | the certain good applications that exist for single precision are sad |
| 03:30:21 | <EvanR> | with curry |
| 03:30:45 | <EvanR> | but going from 1/2 number types to any number of number types is definitely a jump |
| 03:31:01 | <fgarcia> | does Fractional work? i think it has Float and Double |
| 03:32:06 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 03:32:44 | × | annamalai quits (~annamalai@2409:4042:4e39:7842::9e0a:bf0a) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 03:32:58 | → | annamalai joins (~annamalai@2409:4042:4e39:7842::9e0a:bf0a) |
| 03:35:41 | <monochrom> | Fractional works but there is only one instance. |
| 03:36:33 | <EvanR> | > 100 / 3 :: Centi |
| 03:36:35 | <lambdabot> | 33.33 |
| 03:36:45 | <EvanR> | we have more instances |
| 03:37:07 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 03:37:17 | → | qqe joins (~qqq@185.54.21.140) |
| 03:39:10 | <monochrom> | Yeah Haskell has more adoption and more contributors :) |
| 03:41:12 | <EvanR> | oh, curry has few instances just because lack of effort, and not to simplify things? |
| 03:42:04 | × | aditya_an1l quits (~aditya_an@user/aditya-an1l:63825) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 03:42:21 | <monochrom> | I'm over-philosophizing and over-economicsizing it, but scarce resource and simplifying things are highly correlated! :) |
| 03:42:42 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 03:43:39 | → | peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) |
| 03:43:54 | <monochrom> | But, say, very fantasizingly, if one day some big shot started using Curry for GPUs, I'm sure single-precision float would be added right away. :) |
| 03:44:21 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 03:44:25 | <monochrom> | So it's like "no one needs anything else, let's chill". |
| 03:45:42 | <EvanR> | maybe a compiler flag which changes the backend from double to float |
| 03:46:01 | <EvanR> | choose your own semantics |
| 03:46:28 | <monochrom> | heh |
| 03:46:52 | → | trickard joins (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 03:47:28 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 03:47:28 | <monochrom> | You are evil. The last thing we need is an ecosystem that fulfills the prophecy "floating point semantics is unpredictable". |
| 03:48:57 | × | marlino quits (~marlino@96-8-193-95.block0.gvtc.com) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1) |
| 03:49:59 | → | marlino joins (~marlino@96-8-193-95.block0.gvtc.com) |
| 03:52:17 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 03:55:26 | <EvanR> | we don't need to limit our evil choices to floating point |
| 03:55:52 | <EvanR> | select what integers mean, select what function application means, select what defining equations means |
| 03:57:42 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 03:58:15 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 04:03:04 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 04:05:43 | × | jmcantrell quits (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 04:06:49 | <davean> | EvanR: we do select what integer means every time we compile Haskell. |
| 04:08:19 | <EvanR> | ummmmmmmmmmm |
| 04:08:39 | <EvanR> | GMP and the other implementation of Integer ought to morally result in the same semantics? |
| 04:09:02 | <EvanR> | for all practical purposes a platonic ideal |
| 04:09:49 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> We need a non-GMP Integer implementation that uses ByteArrays like GMP. |
| 04:13:03 | <davean> | EvanR: morally, sure |
| 04:13:27 | <davean> | IIRC they had some variation on how they errored with improper operations |
| 04:13:40 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 04:15:20 | <EvanR> | that's the incentive to wrote error free code |
| 04:15:56 | × | chromoblob quits (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 04:16:27 | <davean> | Tell that to Vincent |
| 04:17:08 | → | chromoblob joins (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) |
| 04:18:10 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 04:20:12 | → | werneta joins (~werneta@71.83.160.242) |
| 04:20:44 | → | Googulator46 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 04:20:45 | × | Googulator96 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 04:22:39 | <EvanR> | Divide by zero -- You can't divide by zero on a computer. Some kind of math thing. Don't worry too much about understanding why. Just don't do it. (EXAPUNKS zine 1 page 12) |
| 04:24:01 | <fgarcia> | :D |
| 04:27:29 | <chromoblob> | AArch64 gives you 0 as result of division by zero. i also wanted to make it like this in my language (because dividing 0 by anything gives 0, so 0 / 0 should be 0 too, and since x / 0 for x ≠ 0 is undefined, might as well just check for dividend = 0, regarding other cases as UB) |
| 04:27:47 | <chromoblob> | i mean, in integer division |
| 04:28:52 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> x / 0 should be 0 if division is total, because 0 is the pseudoinverse of zero. The pseudoinverse of x is y such that xyx = x and yxy = y. |
| 04:28:59 | <EvanR> | it is "interesting" that you would mix a nonsense result on one hand with undefined behavior on the other |
| 04:29:01 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 04:29:14 | → | Dhark8 joins (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 04:29:25 | <EvanR> | if you are going to make it total make it total really and define all behavior |
| 04:29:28 | <jreicher> | EvanR what's the nonsense result? |
| 04:29:33 | <EvanR> | 0 / 0 = 0 |
| 04:29:39 | <geekosaur> | Zemyla, I actually started work on that (adding bsdmp as a backend), but decided it would be easier to port its multiplication optimizations than to work around its violation of ghc bignum invariants |
| 04:29:57 | <jreicher> | EvanR what should it be? (I'm not saying it should be 0; I'm just curious what you think) |
| 04:30:06 | <geekosaur> | haven't really had time to work on it though |
| 04:30:17 | <EvanR> | it should clearly be 7 because this one time that would make sense |
| 04:30:22 | <chromoblob> | <s>0.5</s> |
| 04:30:27 | <EvanR> | lol |
| 04:30:51 | <fgarcia> | oh, somewhere i have written 0.0 / 0.0 because i wanted Not a Number as a result |
| 04:31:04 | <jreicher> | But it is a number. You just don't know which one. :p |
| 04:31:18 | <EvanR> | that be the realm of float "logic" |
| 04:31:50 | <EvanR> | they should have made a signed NaN in case you divide negative zero by zero |
| 04:31:57 | × | marlino quits (~marlino@96-8-193-95.block0.gvtc.com) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1) |
| 04:32:09 | × | Shark8 quits (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 04:32:40 | <jreicher> | Signed zero in the first place should not be a thing. :( |
| 04:32:45 | <EvanR> | lol |
| 04:33:40 | <EvanR> | for numbers of the form mantissa times 2^e signed zero isn't a thing xD |
| 04:33:47 | <EvanR> | or any kind of zero for that matter |
| 04:33:52 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 04:34:50 | <EvanR> | whatever you need to do do it in the range 1 <= x < 2 |
| 04:34:59 | <fgarcia> | i am not smart. would they have thought it would be somehow useful for limits approaching from >0 and <0 ? |
| 04:36:40 | <geekosaur> | actually it was bsdnt, which seems to have disappeared |
| 04:36:42 | <EvanR> | a negative zero happens when a computation would be negative but too small to represent |
| 04:37:05 | × | werneta quits (~werneta@71.83.160.242) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 04:37:11 | <geekosaur> | as apparently has libtommath which was my first idea (then found something pointing to bsdnt instead) |
| 04:37:11 | <EvanR> | so you end up with partial information |
| 04:37:54 | <geekosaur> | fgarcia, yes, and it happens when you're working with trig functions in a plane |
| 04:37:55 | <EvanR> | by the same logic negative NaN accomplishes the same thing |
| 04:38:05 | → | Pseudonym joins (~Pseudonym@194-223-46-47.tpgi.com.au) |
| 04:38:09 | <geekosaur> | losing the "negative" switches which quadrant you're in |
| 04:38:26 | <fgarcia> | i think wikipedia has some writing about this |
| 04:38:51 | <fgarcia> | "It is claimed that the inclusion of signed zero in IEEE 754 makes it much easier to achieve numerical accuracy in some critical problems, in particular when computing with complex elementary functions. On the other hand, the concept of signed zero runs contrary to the usual assumption made in mathematics that negative zero is the same value as zero. Representations that allow negative zero can be |
| 04:38:53 | <fgarcia> | a source of errors in programs, if software developers do not take into account that while the two zero representations behave as equal under numeric comparisons, they yield different results in some operations." |
| 04:40:02 | <jreicher> | That's really interesting. I object to it on mathematically purist grounds, which I'm only half-serious about, but that actually looks like it matters. |
| 04:40:04 | <chromoblob> | you should never test "real" numbers for equality, it's not meaningful in computers |
| 04:40:13 | <EvanR> | attempting to use math on a computer is a source of errors in programs. avoidance recommended |
| 04:40:33 | <EvanR> | chromoblob, this is false for floats, and is the correct thing to do in some cases |
| 04:40:47 | <EvanR> | exact real numbers, yes |
| 04:44:30 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 04:48:39 | × | Pseudonym quits (~Pseudonym@194-223-46-47.tpgi.com.au) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 04:49:06 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 04:50:36 | → | democritus joins (~democritu@2600:1700:ba69:10:ad1b:59dc:c894:12ec) |
| 04:53:31 | × | vardhan quits (~vardhan@122.172.85.147) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 04:55:06 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 05:00:03 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 05:04:32 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 05:07:03 | → | vardhan joins (~vardhan@122.172.85.147) |
| 05:15:43 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 05:20:19 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 05:22:09 | <monochrom> | EvanR: Haha define what function application means. I like that. I propose 5 choices: call by value left-to-right, call by value right-to-left, call by need (lazy), call by name, TeX-like macro |
| 05:23:19 | <monochrom> | (Difference between lazy and by name: lazy memoizes, by-name doesn't.) |
| 05:24:18 | <monochrom> | (Difference between by-name and macro expansion: The latter suffers variable capture issues!) |
| 05:31:06 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 05:31:15 | → | weary-traveler joins (~user@user/user363627) |
| 05:34:40 | → | Square3 joins (~Square@user/square) |
| 05:35:43 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 05:37:52 | × | Square2 quits (~Square4@user/square) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 05:39:40 | × | haltingsolver quits (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 05:45:54 | × | haritz quits (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in) |
| 05:46:21 | → | humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) |
| 05:46:28 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 05:53:22 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 05:55:24 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Quit: Leaving...) |
| 05:55:30 | → | takuan joins (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) |
| 06:04:32 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 06:08:49 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 06:12:13 | → | michalz joins (~michalz@185.246.207.203) |
| 06:14:32 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 06:14:46 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 06:19:54 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 06:20:25 | × | L29Ah quits (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 06:20:43 | → | Googulator12 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 06:20:45 | × | Googulator46 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 06:22:37 | → | Lycurgus joins (~juan@user/Lycurgus) |
| 06:24:15 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 06:25:47 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 06:30:18 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 06:30:37 | → | Guest9999 joins (~democritu@2600:1700:ba69:10:1d61:8aca:ac7c:ea23) |
| 06:33:34 | → | djspacewhale joins (~djspacewh@user/djspacewhale) |
| 06:34:53 | × | democritus quits (~democritu@2600:1700:ba69:10:ad1b:59dc:c894:12ec) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 06:35:00 | Guest9999 | is now known as democritus |
| 06:41:14 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 06:45:55 | × | Square3 quits (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 06:46:16 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 06:51:09 | × | Googulator12 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 06:51:10 | → | Googulator72 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 06:55:36 | × | djspacewhale quits (~djspacewh@user/djspacewhale) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 06:56:37 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 06:56:43 | → | sord937 joins (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) |
| 06:57:54 | × | bggd quits (~bgg@2a01:e0a:819:1510:3835:521f:ca74:58be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 07:00:45 | × | chromoblob quits (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 07:01:03 | → | chromoblob joins (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) |
| 07:01:10 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 07:01:31 | × | karenw quits (~karenw@user/karenw) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 07:03:32 | × | democritus quits (~democritu@2600:1700:ba69:10:1d61:8aca:ac7c:ea23) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 07:09:04 | × | ft quits (~ft@p4fc2aaeb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: leaving) |
| 07:12:07 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 07:12:40 | × | chromoblob quits (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 07:12:55 | → | chromoblob joins (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) |
| 07:16:33 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 07:27:37 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 07:32:27 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 07:34:52 | × | annamalai quits (~annamalai@2409:4042:4e39:7842::9e0a:bf0a) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 07:40:50 | → | Googulator83 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 07:41:10 | × | Googulator72 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 07:43:10 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 07:45:01 | → | humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) |
| 07:48:04 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 07:55:08 | → | annamalai joins (~annamalai@157.32.221.227) |
| 07:55:32 | × | elbartol quits (~user@user/elbartol) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 07:58:01 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 07:58:32 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 07:58:40 | <[exa]> | chromoblob: it looked like they don't want the patch so I wanted to have more folks coming in there :D |
| 07:59:58 | × | Lycurgus quits (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org )) |
| 08:03:13 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 08:05:03 | <jreicher> | sam113101: this is the kind of thing I had in mind before |
| 08:05:05 | <jreicher> | https://paste.centos.org/view/783848f1 |
| 08:10:31 | × | annamalai quits (~annamalai@157.32.221.227) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:10:45 | × | Googulator83 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 08:10:47 | → | Googulator66 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 08:10:50 | → | annamalai joins (~annamalai@157.32.221.227) |
| 08:12:05 | × | xff0x quits (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 08:12:49 | <fgarcia> | looks like it could be fast :O |
| 08:13:27 | → | xff0x joins (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
| 08:13:54 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 08:15:29 | → | CiaoSen joins (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) |
| 08:18:15 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 08:21:31 | → | lucabtz joins (~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) |
| 08:26:43 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 08:33:42 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 08:34:21 | × | tzh quits (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Quit: zzz) |
| 08:34:36 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 08:41:51 | × | Googulator66 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-4475-80b4-5cdc-43d6.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 08:44:21 | × | chromoblob quits (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:44:40 | → | chromoblob joins (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) |
| 08:45:19 | × | emmanuelux quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 08:45:27 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 08:45:58 | → | tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) |
| 08:48:52 | × | Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:49:07 | × | chromoblob quits (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 08:52:13 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 08:54:37 | → | fp joins (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) |
| 08:57:39 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 09:13:10 | → | acidjnk joins (~acidjnk@p200300d6e717197425fbe5e3285ef130.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:15:07 | × | mesaoptimizer quits (~mesa@user/PapuaHardyNet) (Quit: WeeChat 4.0.4) |
| 09:16:08 | → | chromoblob joins (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) |
| 09:21:21 | × | jreicher quits (~user@user/jreicher) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 09:22:43 | → | jreicher joins (~user@user/jreicher) |
| 09:34:16 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 09:40:01 | → | __monty__ joins (~toonn@user/toonn) |
| 09:44:51 | × | synchromesh quits (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:58f6:2167:890b:2ed2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 09:46:18 | → | synchromesh joins (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:58f6:2167:890b:2ed2) |
| 09:50:38 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 09:53:15 | × | xff0x quits (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 09:56:00 | × | weary-traveler quits (~user@user/user363627) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 09:56:45 | → | weary-traveler joins (~user@user/user363627) |
| 09:58:16 | × | fp quits (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 10:00:36 | → | fp joins (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) |
| 10:01:04 | × | fp quits (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) (Client Quit) |
| 10:01:17 | → | fp joins (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) |
| 10:01:31 | × | fp quits (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) (Client Quit) |
| 10:01:47 | → | fp joins (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) |
| 10:10:00 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I have an intrusive thought to build servant combinators to support gemini protocol |
| 10:10:22 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I see the gemini space is not really explored on hackage |
| 10:17:10 | <[exa]> | gemini is the new gopher? |
| 10:17:23 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 10:18:47 | → | chele joins (~chele@user/chele) |
| 10:21:44 | <[exa]> | anyway is there a lowlevel server for that (like warp)? would be great |
| 10:22:42 | × | p3n_ quits (~p3n@2a00:19a0:3:7c:0:d9c6:7cf6:1) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 10:24:05 | <[exa]> | ah ok there's gemini-router which looks pretty much like we can do scotty stuff on that |
| 10:24:13 | <[exa]> | coool. |
| 10:25:42 | × | fp quits (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 10:28:16 | <[exa]> | I love the client certificate proliferation there, that's very nice. |
| 10:29:15 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 10:29:39 | → | trickard___ joins (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 10:31:17 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-90-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 10:31:21 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Yeah, gemini and gopher share some lineage and proponents. I'm too zoomer to know more |
| 10:31:51 | → | p3n joins (~p3n@2a00:19a0:3:7c:0:d9c6:7cf6:1) |
| 10:32:24 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Wait, I didn't know gemini appeared in 2019 |
| 10:34:57 | → | haritz joins (~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8) |
| 10:34:58 | × | haritz quits (~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8) (Changing host) |
| 10:34:58 | → | haritz joins (~hrtz@user/haritz) |
| 10:36:18 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 10:37:58 | <[exa]> | yeah it's super new |
| 10:38:48 | → | Googulator66 joins (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 10:40:48 | <probie> | I like Gemini in theory, but the things I'd like to see use it never will |
| 10:42:26 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Some blogs I follow have a gemini mirror. Which I never open |
| 10:43:21 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Gemini looks like a good transport for rss/atom, except a lot of rss readers rely on http response headers to know when to hit again, and gemini doesn't have headers |
| 10:44:31 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 10:47:51 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 10:47:54 | <[exa]> | like, ideally the rss/atom protocol would be itself aware of the fact that the rss has to be refreshed |
| 10:50:07 | → | wootehfoot joins (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) |
| 10:50:52 | × | trickard___ quits (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 10:51:05 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 10:51:14 | <yin> | chromoblob: what's your view on 0^0 ? |
| 10:51:25 | <chromoblob> | yin: 1 |
| 10:52:34 | <jreicher> | lim x->0 0^x |
| 10:53:04 | <jreicher> | (counterexample, not a definition) |
| 10:53:34 | <[exa]> | jreicher: counter-countered by `lim x->0 x^x` and `lim x->0 x^0` |
| 10:54:16 | <jreicher> | I didn't say 1 wasn't the limit in some situations. I'm just saying it's not the limit in all, so it can't be the definition. |
| 10:54:40 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 10:55:17 | <chromoblob> | 0^0 for me is simply the number of functions from bottom to bottom :) |
| 10:55:40 | <[exa]> | <3 |
| 10:56:10 | <lucabtz> | chromoblob shouldnt it be the number of function from an empty set to an empty set? |
| 10:56:18 | <lucabtz> | but by that definition it would be 0 |
| 10:56:40 | <chromoblob> | why zero? id is a correct example |
| 10:57:11 | <lucabtz> | a function from a set A to B is a subset of A x B with some properties |
| 10:57:19 | <lucabtz> | but {} x {} = {} |
| 10:57:25 | <chromoblob> | hmmmm |
| 10:57:33 | × | kritzefitz quits (~kritzefit@debian/kritzefitz) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:57:49 | <lucabtz> | well i suppose {} is a subset of {} x {} |
| 10:57:53 | <lucabtz> | so maybe 1 |
| 10:57:56 | <chromoblob> | well, there you have it, {} is the function |
| 10:57:59 | <lucabtz> | is correct |
| 10:58:04 | <lucabtz> | yep |
| 10:58:16 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 10:59:01 | → | kritzefitz joins (~kritzefit@debian/kritzefitz) |
| 10:59:07 | <lucabtz> | though i think it should be a non-epty subset |
| 10:59:49 | <lucabtz> | because if you take f:A -> B and A = B = {1}, the set of functions from A->B has has cardinality 1 |
| 11:00:04 | <lucabtz> | but if {} is a function the you have two functions from A->B |
| 11:00:15 | <yin> | 0^0 would be Void -> Void and not () -> () right? |
| 11:00:25 | <lucabtz> | since A x B = {(1, 1)} you have both {} and {(1, 1)} |
| 11:00:27 | <c_wraith> | yes |
| 11:00:32 | <chromoblob> | yin: yes, () would correspond to 1 |
| 11:01:01 | <yin> | and how many functions are there of the type Void -> Void? |
| 11:01:12 | → | EvanR_ joins (~EvanR@user/evanr) |
| 11:01:25 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> But how many functions are there from bottom to bottom? One or infinitely many? |
| 11:01:26 | <chromoblob> | lucabtz: which restrictions are there on the subset? |
| 11:01:32 | <c_wraith> | here's where things get annoying: you need to be more precise than "function" |
| 11:01:54 | <chromoblob> | Morj: one, because any two are indistinguishable |
| 11:02:01 | <c_wraith> | because there are multiple concepts of function, and a lot of the disagreement is coming from set theory vs domain theory |
| 11:02:36 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> chromoblob: How extentional of you |
| 11:02:44 | → | fp joins (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::1370) |
| 11:02:48 | <lucabtz> | chromoblob i think in general a subset of A x B is called a relation between A and B. for a function the relation has to assign a single element of B to each and every element of A |
| 11:02:51 | <[exa]> | :t id :: Void -> Void |
| 11:02:52 | <lambdabot> | Void -> Void |
| 11:03:02 | <c_wraith> | lucabtz: in set theory, yes. In domain theory? |
| 11:03:03 | → | mesaoptimizer joins (~user@user/PapuaHardyNet) |
| 11:03:14 | <lucabtz> | which does exclude {} from the example of A = B = {1} |
| 11:03:28 | <chromoblob> | yeah, i wanted to lead to this |
| 11:03:30 | <lucabtz> | but does not exclude {} in the example A = B = {} |
| 11:03:34 | <yin> | does the Yoneda Lemma apply? |
| 11:03:41 | × | EvanR quits (~EvanR@user/evanr) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 11:04:04 | × | califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 11:04:10 | <lucabtz> | chromoblob yep |
| 11:04:53 | <c_wraith> | Haskell is better modeled by domain theory than set theory, as it has explicit bottom values |
| 11:05:10 | <yin> | which is a mistake |
| 11:05:17 | <yin> | imo |
| 11:05:25 | <lucabtz> | c_wraith i see, i know nothing about domain theory though |
| 11:05:37 | <probie> | If you don't have an "at least as defined as" operator, are you really living? |
| 11:07:30 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 11:07:58 | <c_wraith> | So you get fun things like newtype Hyper a b = H { runH :: Hyper b a -> b } |
| 11:08:11 | <c_wraith> | which would be nonsensical in type theory |
| 11:08:14 | <c_wraith> | err, set theory |
| 11:08:24 | <c_wraith> | but it turns out to actually work in Haskell |
| 11:09:19 | × | Vajb quits (~Vajb@n6jd7kwb4e2quheg6tf-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 11:09:32 | <c_wraith> | (you can use hyperfunctions to implement deforestation for zip, for instance) |
| 11:09:59 | → | Vajb joins (~Vajb@n4bl3ovzcj023yptes7-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 11:10:27 | <lucabtz> | you lost me |
| 11:11:57 | <c_wraith> | If you strip out the newtype wrappers, that type is like (((... -> b) -> a) -> b), with infinite recursion on right sides of the arrows. |
| 11:11:58 | <__monty__> | Is Void -> Void a problem for set theory? I can see how a "function" from a non-empty set to Void might be problematic. OTOH can't you say empty sets are not a thing because they're all inhabited by bottom? |
| 11:12:17 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 11:12:26 | → | califax joins (~califax@user/califx) |
| 11:12:44 | <lucabtz> | c_wraith right |
| 11:12:55 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 11:13:50 | <lucabtz> | but you stil lost me with domain theory because i have no idea what it is |
| 11:14:25 | <lucabtz> | but thx for the insights, very interesting |
| 11:15:24 | <c_wraith> | domain theory is... sort of adding infinite loops to functions, by introducing a bottom value to represent "this never completes" |
| 11:15:32 | <c_wraith> | It's much more precise than that. |
| 11:15:50 | <c_wraith> | But that's what it's going for. |
| 11:25:08 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 11:36:22 | × | jle` quits (~jle`@2603:8001:3b00:11:658b:1126:1485:2a54) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 11:37:57 | → | jle` joins (~jle`@2603:8001:3b00:11:2f12:c034:12fc:8093) |
| 11:43:48 | → | biberu joins (~biberu@user/biberu) |
| 11:47:23 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 11:49:38 | × | califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 11:49:41 | × | bwe quits (~bwe@2a01:4f8:1c1c:4878::2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 11:49:52 | → | bwe70296 joins (~bwe@2a01:4f8:1c1c:4878::2) |
| 11:50:02 | → | califax joins (~califax@user/califx) |
| 11:54:41 | → | down200 joins (~down200@shell.lug.mtu.edu) |
| 12:00:58 | × | wootehfoot quits (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 12:08:39 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I have a promo code for a month of discord nitro: HPN5-7QGj-yp58-xZPT-Eu5R-W2ke - for anyone who's fast and wants |
| 12:10:16 | → | aditya_an1l joins (~aditya_an@user/aditya-an1l:63825) |
| 12:17:13 | → | srazkvt joins (~sarah@user/srazkvt) |
| 12:18:11 | <chromoblob> | that "Hyper" type looks like it could be used for games (in math sense) |
| 12:23:21 | → | xff0x joins (~xff0x@ai083123.d.east.v6connect.net) |
| 12:28:54 | × | fp quits (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::1370) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 12:36:06 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 12:36:18 | <[exa]> | any users of `pipes` here? Is the performance OK-ish if I have gazillions of very little pipe-ish operations glued together? |
| 12:36:19 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 12:38:22 | → | fp joins (~Thunderbi@dhcp-86-136.eduroam.aalto.fi) |
| 12:39:44 | × | bwe70296 quits (~bwe@2a01:4f8:1c1c:4878::2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 12:41:57 | <dminuoso> | [exa]: "OK-ish" and "bazillion" are very subjective terms. |
| 12:42:03 | <dminuoso> | The answer is clearly "Yes, no, maybe" |
| 12:42:56 | <dminuoso> | From what I read, pipes is on the faster side of things, but conduit/streaming generally are much faster. |
| 12:43:17 | → | ljdarj joins (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) |
| 12:44:25 | <[exa]> | like, main question probably is that if some kind of fusion works in there, like with Text |
| 12:44:29 | → | bwe joins (~bwe@2a01:4f8:1c1c:4878::2) |
| 12:45:58 | <dminuoso> | Text fusion is so adhoc.. heh |
| 12:46:06 | → | Googulator7 joins (~Googulato@81.183.235.203) |
| 12:46:27 | <dminuoso> | But should be easy to check: Just look for how many rewrite rules are in pipes. |
| 12:47:12 | <[exa]> | hm yeah good point |
| 12:48:06 | <dminuoso> | Ultimately its tough to make predictions about when fusion occurs externally, even in case of text. |
| 12:48:24 | <dminuoso> | It's best to just take your hot path and stare at the generated Core for way too much of your time. |
| 12:49:43 | × | Googulator66 quits (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 12:49:44 | <[exa]> | turns out `streaming` kinda measured that for me, see below in the readme https://github.com/haskell-streaming/streaming |
| 12:50:31 | <dminuoso> | [exa]: There seem to be quite a bunch of RULES that could facilitate shortcut fusion. |
| 12:50:37 | <[exa]> | yeah |
| 12:50:50 | <dminuoso> | But its really hard to predicte whether that actually ends up triggering. |
| 12:51:02 | <dminuoso> | And it may easily differ between GHC versions or other GHC flags. |
| 12:51:23 | × | qqe quits (~qqq@185.54.21.140) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 12:53:59 | × | bwe quits (~bwe@2a01:4f8:1c1c:4878::2) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 12:54:23 | → | bwe joins (~bwe@2a01:4f8:1c1c:4878::2) |
| 12:55:31 | → | wootehfoot joins (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) |
| 12:58:43 | × | aditya_an1l quits (~aditya_an@user/aditya-an1l:63825) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1) |
| 12:58:57 | <lucabtz> | c_wraith any resource with precise definitions for domain theory? |
| 12:59:05 | × | fp quits (~Thunderbi@dhcp-86-136.eduroam.aalto.fi) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 12:59:07 | → | tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) |
| 13:02:03 | <lucabtz> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_theory this page doesnt make much of a connection to haskell and im not even sure it is the same thing you mean because it is still speaking about sets in the end |
| 13:03:14 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 13:04:49 | × | ringo_ quits (~ringo@157.230.117.128) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 13:13:23 | × | Nachtgespenst quits (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 13:18:15 | → | ringo_ joins (~ringo@157.230.117.128) |
| 13:20:57 | → | kuribas joins (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) |
| 13:23:51 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 13:25:08 | → | fp joins (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) |
| 13:26:37 | → | ft joins (~ft@p4fc2aaeb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:33:18 | × | fp quits (~Thunderbi@130.233.70.141) (Quit: fp) |
| 13:33:39 | → | fp joins (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::1370) |
| 13:50:49 | × | ljdarj quits (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Quit: ljdarj) |
| 13:51:09 | → | ljdarj joins (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) |
| 14:02:16 | <kuribas> | Interesting how dependent types blur the line between dynamic and static. For example, in haskell I can choose to pass JSON Value as opaque values, or to parse them into datatypes. |
| 14:02:23 | <kuribas> | But the two approaches are mutual exclusive. |
| 14:02:46 | <kuribas> | Other than messing with generics, you lose flexibility by putting values in data. |
| 14:03:51 | <kuribas> | However with a dependent types (idris) I can treat the schema as a description of the value, which can be manipulated at runtime, so it's both a static and dynamic value. |
| 14:04:01 | <Hecate> | kuribas: they blur the line only if you don't take advantage of them, by putting conditions in the type like 'Vector n where n > 3" or something |
| 14:04:47 | <kuribas> | Hecate: it's there where the flexbility comes from, by putting your schema in the type. |
| 14:05:10 | <kuribas> | The "n" in vector can be considered a static value, or something dynamic that can be manipulated at runtime. |
| 14:06:54 | <kuribas> | You can somewhat emulate this in haskell, by lifting the computations into type level haskell, but it gets cumbersome to do type level computations. |
| 14:12:02 | → | L29Ah joins (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 14:17:04 | × | biberu quits (~biberu@user/biberu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 14:18:55 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 14:22:36 | <tomsmeding> | you can also create existentials, which sometimes allow you to do things that seem dependent |
| 14:22:52 | <tomsmeding> | also GADTs and singletons allow you to simulate dependencies to a certain extent |
| 14:23:28 | <tomsmeding> | though with singletons, you indeed either have to lift the computation to the type-level too, or have to deal with some kind of forgetfulness on the type level and use existentials |
| 14:24:56 | × | Inline quits (~inlinE@2001-4dd7-ae97-0-4674-ae6d-2607-c022.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) (Quit: Leaving) |
| 14:25:28 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 14:27:48 | → | humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) |
| 14:30:45 | → | Googulator83 joins (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 14:32:01 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 14:34:09 | × | Googulator7 quits (~Googulato@81.183.235.203) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 14:41:11 | <kuribas> | yes |
| 14:48:33 | → | Inline joins (~inlinE@2001-4dd7-ae97-0-4674-ae6d-2607-c022.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) |
| 14:49:14 | × | YoungFrog quits (~youngfrog@2a02:a03f:ca07:f900:5e58:dbf4:c0b:fbb3) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.x-git-3-96481995 - https://znc.in) |
| 14:49:34 | → | YoungFrog joins (~youngfrog@39.129-180-91.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 14:54:22 | × | ljdarj quits (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Quit: ljdarj) |
| 14:56:44 | → | ljdarj joins (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) |
| 14:58:50 | → | jmcantrell joins (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) |
| 15:01:02 | → | Googulator5 joins (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 15:04:03 | × | Googulator83 quits (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 15:08:43 | → | Lycurgus joins (~juan@user/Lycurgus) |
| 15:10:35 | <kuribas> | existentials are like dynamic types, but with dependent types I can compute on the unknown type part, without breaking static garantees, and without the need for a second language for type computations. |
| 15:15:33 | <merijn> | how are existentials like dynamic types? |
| 15:15:39 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> If you add Typeable constraint to your existentials you can query exact type at runtime too. |
| 15:15:53 | <merijn> | You can kinda fake dynamic types with existentials, but they are far more principled |
| 15:16:02 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.21.0.0/docs/Type-Reflection.html |
| 15:16:20 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> you can do things like with C++ rtti then |
| 15:16:32 | <kuribas> | merijn: yeah, it's the other way. |
| 15:16:52 | <kuribas> | merijn: dynamic types are existentials, but not all existentials are like dynamic types. |
| 15:17:11 | <merijn> | loonycyborg: You don't have to do that yourself, Dynamic exists already :) |
| 15:17:13 | × | yin quits (~zero@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 15:17:35 | → | yin joins (~zero@user/zero) |
| 15:17:41 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> Thinking about the free monoid now. |
| 15:17:55 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> If you don't use type.reflection then typeclass entirely determines what can you do with existential |
| 15:18:19 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> that way they're not dynamic types but more like C++ virtual functions and abstract classes |
| 15:18:24 | <kuribas> | merijn: A dynamic language just means every value is (Tag t ** t), Where Tag :: Type -> Type |
| 15:18:28 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> newtype FreeMonoid a = FreeMonoid { runFreeMonoid :: forall r. Monoid r => (a -> r) -> r } |
| 15:18:35 | × | sam113101 quits (~sam@modemcable200.189-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 15:18:45 | → | machinedgod joins (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 15:19:08 | <kuribas> | merijn: but you hide the tag, and make primitive functions partial. |
| 15:19:33 | <__monty__> | What can existentials express that dynamic types restrict? |
| 15:20:16 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> It's the other way around |
| 15:20:29 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> existentials can restric more than dynamic types |
| 15:20:34 | <__monty__> | That's what I assumed. |
| 15:20:38 | × | FragByte quits (~christian@user/fragbyte) (Quit: Quit) |
| 15:21:25 | <__monty__> | But kuribas' comment of "dynamic types are existentials, but not all existentials are dynamic types" is the other way around, no? |
| 15:21:29 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> but with Typeable/Dynamic they're equivalent |
| 15:21:42 | <kuribas> | __monty__: the existential can carry more information and guarantees. Restrict is a funny word for "guarantee". |
| 15:22:13 | <kuribas> | Like "Hashable t => t ** t" |
| 15:22:27 | <kuribas> | It restrict t to a hashable, but it's also a guarantee that the type is hashable. |
| 15:22:37 | → | FragByte joins (~christian@user/fragbyte) |
| 15:23:21 | → | sam113101 joins (~sam@modemcable200.189-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 15:26:04 | × | srazkvt quits (~sarah@user/srazkvt) (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 15:26:09 | × | sam113101 quits (~sam@modemcable200.189-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 15:26:16 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> And if it's "(Hashable t, Dynamic t)" you can both use Hashable instance and reflect its exact type. |
| 15:27:12 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> But obviously it can get less maintainable because compiler won't warn you if you change types in the origin but forget to update uses of Typeable. |
| 15:30:04 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> And if it's "(Hashable t, Typeable t)" you can both use Hashable instance and reflect its exact type. |
| 15:30:42 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 15:30:46 | → | Googulator75 joins (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 15:31:15 | → | Sgeo joins (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 15:31:16 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> btw does the matrix bridge support showing edits to IRC? |
| 15:31:30 | <__monty__> | Basically repeats the entire message. |
| 15:32:11 | → | sindu joins (~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no) |
| 15:32:38 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> It's better than losing them |
| 15:33:00 | <lucabtz> | well losing them isnt really possible through IRC |
| 15:33:08 | <lucabtz> | once sent it is sen |
| 15:33:17 | <lucabtz> | s/sen/sent |
| 15:33:46 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> I mean not showing in the first place :P |
| 15:33:57 | × | Googulator5 quits (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 15:34:20 | × | timide quits (~timide@user/timide) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:35:00 | <lucabtz> | like not showing the edit? |
| 15:35:16 | <lucabtz> | it would be cool if it only sent a diff with the edit |
| 15:36:13 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> Indeed |
| 15:36:21 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> but it's a hard ask honestly |
| 15:36:40 | <__monty__> | As long as the diff is shorter that is. |
| 15:36:55 | × | Googulator75 quits (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 15:37:12 | → | Googulator75 joins (~Googulato@81.183.235.203) |
| 15:37:31 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> But if things aren't context aware then it could be worse than showing it entirely |
| 15:38:07 | × | Vajb quits (~Vajb@n4bl3ovzcj023yptes7-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 15:38:34 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> Like if you edit some message you made month ago in a busy channel :P |
| 15:38:38 | × | FragByte quits (~christian@user/fragbyte) (Quit: Quit) |
| 15:40:01 | <__monty__> | Maybe we should move to off-topic? What context could you provide other than a timestamp? And if just a timestamp, most people don't have theirs in UTC. |
| 15:40:44 | → | FragByte joins (~christian@user/fragbyte) |
| 15:41:58 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> I mean sometimes in IRC people correct themselves with conventions such as *something to correct a single word |
| 15:42:01 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 15:42:15 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> and it requires context to understand |
| 15:42:22 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> I don't think it can be replicated in general without human understanding |
| 15:42:30 | → | polykernel_ joins (~polykerne@user/polykernel) |
| 15:42:50 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> As in AI-complete problem |
| 15:44:01 | × | weary-traveler quits (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:44:07 | × | sindu quits (~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 15:44:55 | <lucabtz> | i think s/old/new would look cool, if the edit is of an old message it would be better to not send it to IRC instead because it would make little sense to see the edit here |
| 15:45:13 | × | polykernel quits (~polykerne@user/polykernel) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 15:45:14 | polykernel_ | is now known as polykernel |
| 15:45:18 | → | Vajb joins (~Vajb@n4bleudhyon0g5ws745-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 15:45:39 | <lucabtz> | __monty__ is offtopic bridged to matrix too? |
| 15:45:55 | <__monty__> | I assumed it was, but I don't *know*. |
| 15:47:18 | × | raoul quits (~raoul@95.179.203.88) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) |
| 15:48:19 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I don't think it is, or at least it doesn't show up in the lobby |
| 15:48:59 | → | corecaps joins (~igloo@user/corecaps) |
| 15:49:13 | <geekosaur> | the bridge will show an edit with * if it's short enough and it's editing themost recent message the user sent; otherwise it resends the whole message |
| 15:49:20 | × | fp quits (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::1370) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 15:49:25 | <geekosaur> | offtopic isn't bridged |
| 15:49:40 | → | fp joins (~Thunderbi@2001:708:150:10::7e06) |
| 15:49:53 | → | raoul joins (~raoul@95.179.203.88) |
| 15:50:03 | <lucabtz> | geekosaur okay that's cool |
| 15:50:26 | <chromoblob> | it should resend whole message with a * |
| 15:51:01 | <geekosaur> | you can file a bug report for heisenbridge… |
| 15:51:32 | EvanR_ | is now known as EvanR |
| 15:52:08 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:52:17 | → | tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) |
| 15:52:46 | → | sam113101 joins (~sam@modemcable200.189-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 15:53:09 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I fear resending the whole message would lead to a lot of accidental spam |
| 15:53:34 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Maybe would be nice to buffer a message for five seconds and apply edits to the buffer if you're fast enough |
| 15:54:27 | <__monty__> | Yeah, I don't like the full repeat. So hard to actually spot what changed. |
| 15:57:47 | <EvanR> | it can be hard for the computer to spot what changed |
| 15:58:01 | <EvanR> | which is more where we want to be on that |
| 15:58:40 | → | Square3 joins (~Square@user/square) |
| 15:59:27 | × | corecaps quits (~igloo@user/corecaps) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:59:30 | → | Tuplanolla joins (~Tuplanoll@91-152-225-194.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:59:43 | × | Vajb quits (~Vajb@n4bleudhyon0g5ws745-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 16:01:04 | → | Googulator82 joins (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 16:01:17 | → | corecaps joins (~igloo@user/corecaps) |
| 16:02:10 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 16:02:39 | → | Vajb joins (~Vajb@n5f2pnc8xvnar9hzscx-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 16:03:55 | × | fp quits (~Thunderbi@2001:708:150:10::7e06) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 16:04:17 | × | Googulator75 quits (~Googulato@81.183.235.203) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 16:06:34 | <geekosaur> | heisenbridge's actually pretty decent at it. as long as it's the most recent message |
| 16:07:35 | <geekosaur> | that said, if you change both ends of a long message, it outputs the whole message gaain instead of two edits |
| 16:10:49 | × | codolio quits (~dolio@130.44.140.168) (Quit: ZNC 1.10.1 - https://znc.in) |
| 16:11:29 | × | corecaps quits (~igloo@user/corecaps) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:12:13 | → | dolio joins (~dolio@130.44.140.168) |
| 16:12:17 | → | FragByte_ joins (~christian@user/fragbyte) |
| 16:14:24 | × | FragByte quits (~christian@user/fragbyte) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 16:14:24 | FragByte_ | is now known as FragByte |
| 16:15:31 | × | dolio quits (~dolio@130.44.140.168) (Client Quit) |
| 16:16:26 | → | dolio joins (~dolio@130.44.140.168) |
| 16:21:37 | × | Vajb quits (~Vajb@n5f2pnc8xvnar9hzscx-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 16:21:45 | → | timide joins (~timide@user/timide) |
| 16:22:32 | → | tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) |
| 16:24:25 | → | Vajb joins (~Vajb@n4w7puti44x2voev9cr-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 16:27:37 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 16:29:25 | → | Lord_of_Life_ joins (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) |
| 16:30:13 | × | Lord_of_Life quits (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 16:30:44 | Lord_of_Life_ | is now known as Lord_of_Life |
| 16:34:48 | × | polykernel quits (~polykerne@user/polykernel) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:35:07 | → | polykernel joins (~polykerne@user/polykernel) |
| 16:35:07 | × | lucabtz quits (~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:38:48 | × | FragByte quits (~christian@user/fragbyte) (Quit: Quit) |
| 16:39:31 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 16:40:53 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 16:42:21 | → | marinelli joins (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) |
| 16:43:10 | × | ouilemur quits (~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.0) |
| 16:46:18 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 16:49:03 | × | CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 16:49:55 | × | Vajb quits (~Vajb@n4w7puti44x2voev9cr-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 16:50:23 | × | mauke quits (~mauke@user/mauke) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:50:25 | × | preflex quits (~preflex@user/mauke/bot/preflex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:51:39 | → | Vajb joins (~Vajb@n5gequa6sjlhrxrjaky-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 16:52:13 | → | preflex joins (~preflex@user/mauke/bot/preflex) |
| 16:52:39 | → | sindu joins (~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no) |
| 16:53:46 | → | gehmehgeh joins (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 16:54:18 | × | gmg quits (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 16:54:22 | gehmehgeh | is now known as gmg |
| 16:54:33 | × | kuribas quits (~user@ip-188-118-57-242.reverse.destiny.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:56:31 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:57:33 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 17:01:14 | → | Googulator7 joins (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 17:02:25 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 17:02:34 | Xe_ | is now known as Xe |
| 17:04:05 | × | Googulator82 quits (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 17:04:27 | × | ljdarj quits (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 17:05:03 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 17:05:11 | AlexNoo_ | is now known as AlexNoo |
| 17:05:16 | × | Vajb quits (~Vajb@n5gequa6sjlhrxrjaky-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 17:06:48 | → | Vajb joins (~Vajb@85-76-107-130-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 17:08:25 | × | malte quits (~malte@mal.tc) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 17:09:58 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 17:11:50 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:13:02 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 17:15:42 | → | tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) |
| 17:17:39 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 17:18:25 | × | Lycurgus quits (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org )) |
| 17:23:39 | × | chele quits (~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 17:25:13 | × | sindu quits (~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 17:26:08 | → | tzh joins (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 17:27:46 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 17:28:26 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 17:28:43 | × | vardhan quits (~vardhan@122.172.85.147) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 17:29:34 | × | sord937 quits (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937) |
| 17:29:38 | × | jmcantrell quits (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 17:32:56 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 17:35:48 | → | qqe joins (~qqq@185.54.21.140) |
| 17:39:34 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 17:39:47 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 17:43:49 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 17:44:20 | → | jmcantrell joins (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) |
| 17:47:11 | → | polykernel_ joins (~polykerne@user/polykernel) |
| 17:48:33 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 17:49:18 | × | marinelli quits (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 17:50:05 | Catty | is now known as catties |
| 17:50:06 | × | polykernel quits (~polykerne@user/polykernel) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 17:50:06 | polykernel_ | is now known as polykernel |
| 17:50:15 | → | marinelli joins (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) |
| 17:50:19 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 17:50:33 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 17:51:36 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:53:40 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 17:59:18 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 17:59:47 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 18:00:27 | Dhark8 | is now known as Shark8 |
| 18:00:52 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 18:01:06 | × | Vajb quits (~Vajb@85-76-107-130-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 18:01:26 | → | Vajb joins (~Vajb@n7k9gf95j3ud2llqzrc-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 18:02:50 | × | synchromesh quits (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:58f6:2167:890b:2ed2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 18:03:55 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 18:04:08 | → | synchromesh joins (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:58f6:2167:890b:2ed2) |
| 18:05:09 | × | Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-152-225-194.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 18:07:55 | × | remedan_ quits (~remedan@78-80-95-79.customers.tmcz.cz) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 18:08:28 | × | Vajb quits (~Vajb@n7k9gf95j3ud2llqzrc-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 18:09:02 | → | Vajb joins (~Vajb@n720r98vdho1vtnt3mg-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 18:13:17 | × | FANTOM quits (~fantom@212.228.181.156) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 18:14:41 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 18:15:11 | → | FANTOM joins (~fantom@212.228.181.156) |
| 18:19:16 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 18:19:20 | × | tt12316 quits (~tt1231@2603:6010:8700:4a81:a4f6:acff:fe95:3803) (*.net *.split) |
| 18:19:20 | × | xal quits (~xal@mx1.xal.systems) (*.net *.split) |
| 18:19:20 | × | enikar quits (~enikar@user/enikar) (*.net *.split) |
| 18:19:20 | × | tcard_ quits (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:cf17:befc:ff82:5303) (*.net *.split) |
| 18:19:20 | × | sp1ff quits (~user@2601:1c2:4c00:6820::8bad) (*.net *.split) |
| 18:19:20 | × | arahael quits (~wetfoot@user/arahael) (*.net *.split) |
| 18:19:20 | × | elenril quits (~elenril@tutturu.khirnov.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 18:24:28 | → | tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) |
| 18:24:44 | → | tt12316 joins (~tt1231@2603:6010:8700:4a81:a4f6:acff:fe95:3803) |
| 18:24:44 | → | xal joins (~xal@mx1.xal.systems) |
| 18:24:44 | → | enikar joins (~enikar@user/enikar) |
| 18:24:44 | → | tcard_ joins (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:cf17:befc:ff82:5303) |
| 18:24:44 | → | sp1ff joins (~user@2601:1c2:4c00:6820::8bad) |
| 18:24:44 | → | arahael joins (~wetfoot@user/arahael) |
| 18:24:44 | → | elenril joins (~elenril@tutturu.khirnov.net) |
| 18:28:52 | × | jmcantrell quits (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 18:29:26 | → | malte joins (~malte@mal.tc) |
| 18:30:48 | × | Vajb quits (~Vajb@n720r98vdho1vtnt3mg-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 18:31:38 | → | Vajb joins (~Vajb@n6jrirf92qztswrjkg8-1.v6.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 18:40:23 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 18:45:04 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 18:50:52 | → | weary-traveler joins (~user@user/user363627) |
| 18:55:56 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 19:00:37 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 19:04:27 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 19:05:47 | → | Googulator78 joins (~Googulato@81.183.235.203) |
| 19:08:12 | × | m1dnight quits (~m1dnight@d8D861A17.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 19:08:47 | → | tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) |
| 19:08:53 | × | Googulator7 quits (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 19:11:19 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 19:15:55 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 19:16:17 | → | peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) |
| 19:16:55 | → | remedan joins (~remedan@78-80-95-79.customers.tmcz.cz) |
| 19:17:09 | → | Anarchos joins (~Anarchos@91-161-254-16.subs.proxad.net) |
| 19:22:23 | → | ZLima12 joins (~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) |
| 19:22:24 | → | Nachtgespenst joins (~user@user/siracusa) |
| 19:22:29 | × | ZLima12_ quits (~zlima12@user/meow/ZLima12) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 19:23:30 | → | mauke joins (~mauke@user/mauke) |
| 19:25:59 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 19:29:38 | → | m1dnight joins (~m1dnight@d8D861A17.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:30:20 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 19:33:26 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 19:34:06 | → | haltingsolver joins (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) |
| 19:34:12 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 19:36:07 | → | humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) |
| 19:36:59 | × | Anarchos quits (~Anarchos@91-161-254-16.subs.proxad.net) (Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!) |
| 19:41:15 | → | Anarchos joins (~Anarchos@91-161-254-16.subs.proxad.net) |
| 19:41:22 | × | infinity0 quits (~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Quit: WeeChat 4.6.3) |
| 19:41:23 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 19:41:38 | → | Dhark8 joins (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 19:41:46 | → | infinity0 joins (~infinity0@pwned.gg) |
| 19:43:15 | × | infinity0 quits (~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Client Quit) |
| 19:43:43 | × | poscat0x04 quits (~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 19:44:48 | → | infinity0 joins (~infinity0@pwned.gg) |
| 19:45:19 | × | Shark8 quits (~Shark8@c-174-56-102-109.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 19:46:52 | → | marlino joins (~marlino@96-8-193-104.block0.gvtc.com) |
| 19:47:14 | → | poscat joins (~poscat@user/poscat) |
| 19:47:40 | × | infinity0 quits (~infinity0@pwned.gg) (Client Quit) |
| 19:48:40 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 19:50:09 | → | infinity0 joins (~infinity0@pwned.gg) |
| 19:54:41 | × | AlexZenon quits (~alzenon@94.233.240.123) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 19:59:25 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 20:00:51 | → | Googulator11 joins (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 20:03:48 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 20:03:55 | × | Googulator78 quits (~Googulato@81.183.235.203) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 20:05:29 | Dhark8 | is now known as Shark8 |
| 20:09:11 | → | AlexZenon joins (~alzenon@94.233.240.123) |
| 20:14:48 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 20:15:37 | × | weary-traveler quits (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:17:02 | → | ouilemur joins (~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) |
| 20:19:16 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 20:19:27 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 20:19:49 | × | AlexZenon quits (~alzenon@94.233.240.123) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 20:26:59 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 20:31:38 | × | sp1ff quits (~user@2601:1c2:4c00:6820::8bad) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:31:49 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 20:32:50 | → | DetourNe- joins (~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK) |
| 20:32:59 | → | omidmash7 joins (~omidmash@user/omidmash) |
| 20:33:45 | → | wbrawner_ joins (~wbrawner@129.146.105.153) |
| 20:33:47 | → | driib3180 joins (~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net) |
| 20:33:51 | → | _d0t_ joins (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) |
| 20:33:53 | → | yin_ joins (~zero@user/zero) |
| 20:33:55 | → | olivial_ joins (~benjaminl@73.240.192.240) |
| 20:33:57 | → | jj_ joins (~apropos@dhcp-128-189-46-128.ubcsecure.wireless.ubc.ca) |
| 20:34:23 | → | AlexZenon joins (~alzenon@94.233.240.123) |
| 20:34:49 | → | Fischmiep joins (~Fischmiep@user/Fischmiep) |
| 20:34:56 | → | haritzondo joins (~hrtz@140.228.70.141) |
| 20:35:27 | → | Xe_ joins (~Xe@perl/impostor/xe) |
| 20:36:26 | → | qqe_ joins (~qqq@185.54.21.140) |
| 20:36:47 | → | myme1 joins (~myme@2a01:799:d5e:5f00:f60f:b1c2:fdec:ad3a) |
| 20:36:49 | → | tessier_ joins (~tessier@184.72.149.67) |
| 20:37:51 | → | j1n37- joins (~j1n37@user/j1n37) |
| 20:41:25 | × | qqe quits (~qqq@185.54.21.140) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | yin quits (~zero@user/zero) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | haritz quits (~hrtz@user/haritz) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | jreicher quits (~user@user/jreicher) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | omidmash quits (~omidmash@user/omidmash) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | myme quits (~myme@2a01:799:d5e:5f00:6de6:8396:5003:6575) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | tessier quits (~tessier@ec2-184-72-149-67.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | Xe quits (~Xe@perl/impostor/xe) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | j1n37 quits (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | jj quits (~apropos@dhcp-128-189-46-128.ubcsecure.wireless.ubc.ca) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | wbrawner quits (~wbrawner@129.146.105.153) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | olivial quits (~benjaminl@user/benjaminl) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | DetourNetworkUK quits (~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | simplystuart quits (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | driib318 quits (~driib@vmi931078.contaboserver.net) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | _d0t quits (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | × | Fischmie- quits (~Fischmiep@user/Fischmiep) (*.net *.split) |
| 20:41:25 | DetourNe- | is now known as DetourNetworkUK |
| 20:41:26 | yin_ | is now known as yin |
| 20:41:26 | omidmash7 | is now known as omidmash |
| 20:41:26 | wbrawner_ | is now known as wbrawner |
| 20:41:26 | _d0t_ | is now known as _d0t |
| 20:41:27 | jj_ | is now known as jj |
| 20:41:28 | driib3180 | is now known as driib318 |
| 20:42:04 | → | simplystuart joins (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 20:42:29 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 20:42:30 | → | jreicher joins (~user@user/jreicher) |
| 20:42:53 | → | ubert joins (~Thunderbi@178.165.175.248.wireless.dyn.drei.com) |
| 20:45:39 | × | AlexZenon quits (~alzenon@94.233.240.123) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 20:46:55 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 20:48:56 | × | fgarcia quits (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Quit: Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:49:48 | → | Tuplanolla joins (~Tuplanoll@91-152-225-194.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:50:30 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 20:57:51 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 21:00:50 | → | Googulator10 joins (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) |
| 21:01:31 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:02:28 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 21:04:09 | × | Googulator11 quits (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 21:06:31 | → | weary-traveler joins (~user@user/user363627) |
| 21:08:37 | → | AlexZenon joins (~alzenon@94.233.240.123) |
| 21:11:42 | ← | marlino parts (~marlino@96-8-193-104.block0.gvtc.com) (WeeChat 4.7.1) |
| 21:13:15 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 21:16:17 | × | Googulator10 quits (~Googulato@team.broadbit.hu) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 21:16:53 | × | AlexZenon quits (~alzenon@94.233.240.123) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 21:17:32 | × | L29Ah quits (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 21:17:43 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 21:23:02 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 21:24:06 | → | AlexZenon joins (~alzenon@94.233.240.123) |
| 21:27:09 | × | qqe_ quits (~qqq@185.54.21.140) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
| 21:28:00 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 21:33:25 | × | michalz quits (~michalz@185.246.207.203) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:34:32 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 21:43:01 | × | takuan quits (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:46:32 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 21:46:46 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 21:47:02 | → | L29Ah joins (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) |
| 21:48:12 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 21:50:41 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:52:39 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 21:56:25 | × | preflex quits (~preflex@user/mauke/bot/preflex) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 21:56:51 | → | preflex joins (~preflex@user/mauke/bot/preflex) |
| 21:57:21 | × | Anarchos quits (~Anarchos@91-161-254-16.subs.proxad.net) (Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!) |
| 21:57:37 | × | opqdonut__ quits (opqdonut@pseudo.fixme.fi) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 21:58:53 | → | opqdonut__ joins (opqdonut@pseudo.fixme.fi) |
| 22:00:46 | × | deptype quits (~deptype@124.123.133.153) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:01:12 | → | deptype joins (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:753:7fad:320a:d0bd) |
| 22:03:34 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 22:04:53 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:05:07 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 22:08:07 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 22:08:47 | → | peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) |
| 22:11:24 | × | synchromesh quits (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:58f6:2167:890b:2ed2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:12:51 | → | synchromesh joins (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:1c88:6424:1e2a:539d) |
| 22:13:02 | → | djspacewhale joins (~djspacewh@user/djspacewhale) |
| 22:13:35 | × | wootehfoot quits (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:17:02 | × | djspacewhale quits (~djspacewh@user/djspacewhale) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:17:26 | → | ljdarj joins (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) |
| 22:17:53 | × | deptype quits (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:753:7fad:320a:d0bd) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:18:26 | → | humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) |
| 22:18:28 | → | deptype joins (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:e72b:dafc:b2b7:fca5) |
| 22:18:59 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 22:23:20 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:23:23 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 22:29:00 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 22:32:23 | → | Googulator10 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-f56c-45b8-e3c8-fdbd.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 22:33:19 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:37:55 | × | deptype quits (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:e72b:dafc:b2b7:fca5) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:38:10 | × | Googulator10 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-f56c-45b8-e3c8-fdbd.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 22:38:11 | → | deptype joins (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:2eca:367e:cb91:1939) |
| 22:38:45 | × | divlamir quits (~divlamir@user/divlamir) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:38:59 | → | Googulator joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-0231-f56c-45b8-e3c8-fdbd.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 22:39:03 | → | divlamir joins (~divlamir@user/divlamir) |
| 22:39:15 | × | opencircuit_ quits (~quassel@user/opencircuit) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:39:25 | → | opencircuit joins (~quassel@user/opencircuit) |
| 22:44:22 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 22:45:16 | × | chromoblob quits (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:45:31 | → | chromoblob joins (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) |
| 22:45:45 | → | target_i joins (~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) |
| 22:48:35 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:49:14 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 22:57:57 | × | deptype quits (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:2eca:367e:cb91:1939) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:58:32 | → | deptype joins (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:2881:6633:48c6:4881) |
| 22:59:51 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:02:50 | × | peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@172.222.148.214) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 23:04:07 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:07:07 | × | ljdarj quits (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 23:10:50 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:697a:bc7a:f580:408c) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 23:13:22 | × | Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-152-225-194.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 23:15:14 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:18:00 | × | deptype quits (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:2881:6633:48c6:4881) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:18:23 | → | deptype joins (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:c84e:ee96:e470:3884) |
| 23:20:33 | × | __monty__ quits (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 23:21:43 | × | target_i quits (~target_i@user/target-i/x-6023099) (Quit: leaving) |
| 23:22:05 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:22:08 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:22:18 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 23:28:37 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 23:29:28 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:32:48 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:33:10 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:34:34 | → | marlino joins (~marlino@96-8-193-104.block0.gvtc.com) |
| 23:35:22 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 23:36:19 | × | haritzondo quits (~hrtz@140.228.70.141) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in) |
| 23:37:43 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 23:38:31 | × | deptype quits (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:c84e:ee96:e470:3884) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:38:48 | → | deptype joins (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:2d8e:e617:f271:23ab) |
| 23:38:58 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:39:12 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-88-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 23:43:29 | × | haltingsolver quits (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:43:51 | → | haltingsolver joins (~cmo@2604:3d09:207f:8000::d1dc) |
| 23:45:46 | × | Frostillicus quits (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 23:48:33 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:51:15 | × | marlino quits (~marlino@96-8-193-104.block0.gvtc.com) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.1) |
| 23:52:55 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:56:52 | travisb | is now known as tabemann |
| 23:58:10 | → | haritz joins (~hrtz@140.228.70.141) |
| 23:58:21 | → | emmanuelux joins (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) |
| 23:58:33 | × | deptype quits (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:2d8e:e617:f271:23ab) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:58:50 | → | Frostillicus joins (~Frostilli@pool-71-174-119-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:59:09 | → | deptype joins (~deptype@2406:b400:3a:9d2f:6397:cee2:c5e0:974) |
| 23:59:52 | × | haritz quits (~hrtz@140.228.70.141) (Changing host) |
| 23:59:52 | → | haritz joins (~hrtz@user/haritz) |
All times are in UTC on 2025-11-21.