Logs on 2025-11-25 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:00:17 | × | vanishingideal quits (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 00:00:31 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 00:11:14 | × | Googulator quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01f1-f56c-45b8-e3c8-fdbd.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
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| 00:22:53 | Googulator58 | is now known as Googulator |
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| 00:32:07 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 00:32:25 | × | pointlessslippe- quits (~pointless@62.106.85.17) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 00:46:55 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 01:15:01 | Googulator12 | is now known as Googulator |
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| 02:02:43 | omidmash6 | is now known as omidmash |
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| 02:07:18 | → | X-Scale joins (~ARM@6.67.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt) |
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| 02:40:42 | × | Googulator99 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01f1-f56c-45b8-e3c8-fdbd.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
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| 04:10:48 | × | Googulator33 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-01f1-f56c-45b8-e3c8-fdbd.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
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| 04:34:15 | Googulator33 | is now known as Googulator |
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| 11:32:57 | <fgarcia> | > putStrLn "hi!" |
| 11:32:58 | <lambdabot> | <IO ()> |
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| 12:03:09 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> What's the name of the newtype which, when Traversed over, does the Applicatives backwards from their normal order? |
| 12:03:31 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> Like getX . traverse f . X = getBackwards . traverse (Backwards . f) |
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| 12:08:33 | <Leary> | Zemyla: `Reverse` |
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| 12:10:20 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> Thanks! |
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| 12:33:12 | <hseg> | Hi, I'm trying to build+test shake, but it's having difficulty finding my package databases (so eg the docs test breaks). Is this well-known? |
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| 12:42:17 | <merijn> | hseg: That sounds very suspicious |
| 12:42:25 | <merijn> | hseg: What OS? |
| 12:42:50 | <merijn> | And how did you install GHC/cabal |
| 12:43:39 | merijn | has certain suspicions |
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| 12:47:22 | <hseg> | linux, with nonstandard xdg directories, installed via ghcup |
| 12:47:27 | <hseg> | *arch linux |
| 12:47:38 | <tomsmeding> | do you have a system ghc installed too? |
| 12:47:42 | <hseg> | nope |
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| 12:54:18 | <merijn> | Did you at one point have a system ghc installed and/or system Haskell packages installed? |
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| 12:54:34 | <merijn> | Because of course it's Arch :) |
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| 12:54:56 | <hseg> | nope, because I wanted to avoid that hell |
| 12:54:57 | <merijn> | hseg: Is there a ~/.cabal or ~/.ghc in your homedir? |
| 12:56:14 | <tomsmeding> | what exactly is the error if you pass verbose flags to things |
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| 12:56:56 | <hseg> | merijn: no, but I set $CABAL_CONFIG to point to a file in $XDG_CONFIG_HOME with the following contents https://0x0.st/KWJE.txt |
| 12:57:05 | <hseg> | (barring comments |
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| 12:58:12 | <merijn> | The paste just leads to https cert warnings and then some other DNS failure |
| 12:58:27 | <merijn> | try using the paste in the channel topic |
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| 13:01:11 | <hseg> | yikes -- need to go, misread the time |
| 13:01:22 | <hseg> | will be back in a couple hours to try to investigate |
| 13:01:24 | <hseg> | sorry |
| 13:04:34 | <tomsmeding> | merijn: that site works for me |
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| 15:12:51 | <dutchie> | https://paste.tomsmeding.com/MLNFAoXl this feels dumb |
| 15:13:23 | <merijn> | Enum is an awful awful class and it should feel bad >.> |
| 15:13:28 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> In addition to the standard parens function, there should be a parens', which is guaranteed to parse all parentheses. |
| 15:14:15 | <merijn> | dutchie: Incidentally, that may *still* fail, if the enum instance isn't dense |
| 15:14:41 | <dutchie> | ah true, even worse |
| 15:14:56 | <merijn> | Like I said |
| 15:15:04 | <merijn> | Enum is an awful, awful class and it should feel bad |
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| 15:17:52 | <alex`> | @undo [x | Just x <- xs] |
| 15:17:52 | <lambdabot> | concatMap (\ a -> case a of { Just x -> [x]; _ -> []}) xs |
| 15:18:25 | <dutchie> | at least these are my own Enum instances (faking a bounded Int class) and so I know they are dense |
| 15:18:51 | <merijn> | dutchie: What are you using maybeToEnum for? |
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| 15:19:49 | <dutchie> | nudge a square on a grid, so Maybe Neighbour |
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| 15:26:36 | <Leary> | `class Enum` is an implementation detail of `[a(, b) .. (c)]` notation, and `(to|from)Enum` of the necessary `enumFrom*` methods. What's bad is that these details aren't hidden, inviting abuse. `succ`/`pred`, which are thrown in on principle, are perhaps the only truly user-facing part of the class. |
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| 15:27:25 | <Leary> | dutchie: Rather than trying to be generic in `Enum`, perhaps just use `Int` with explicit bounds? That can always be generalised to `Enum a` if you really need it to. |
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| 15:27:51 | <dutchie> | yeah it's almost certainly overkill to have it that generic |
| 15:28:45 | <dutchie> | if i was going to refactor I think it'd make sense to have my bounds in a Reader somewhere |
| 15:29:54 | <merijn> | Leary: The AI going through Int but not ensuring that's safe is definitely bad |
| 15:30:38 | <merijn> | -AI+class |
| 15:30:50 | <merijn> | I dunno what happened in my brain there, glitching two conversations together xD |
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| 15:33:14 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> The good thing about Enum is that fromEnum @Char is exported in prelude, and ord isn't |
| 15:34:57 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Otherwise I just write monomorphic functions for my own type that I need to convert to-from Int |
| 15:39:38 | <Leary> | merijn: `(to|from)Enum` are easier to get right than the tricky details of the other methods, and should only be used to write them by proxy. You can argue that they shouldn't be part of the class (e.g. they could be written as local helpers on a per-instance basis and mapped over the methods of `Enum Int`), but then you lose the convenience of method defaults. |
| 15:40:26 | <merijn> | Leary: Sure, but a required should've been that the mapping is dense and boundscheck should've made more sense |
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| 18:18:23 | <Wygulmage> | Is there a way to run multiple tests on the same input in QuickCheck? It's much simpler for me if things all fail in the same way when they have the same bug, and different ways if they have different bugs. |
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| 18:24:44 | <hseg> | tomsmeding: https://0x0.st/KW3r.txt is the log for cabal test --verbose (for shake on a custom xdg linux) |
| 18:25:05 | <hseg> | reminder: https://0x0.st/KWJE.txt is my cabal/config |
| 18:26:18 | <tomsmeding> | Wygulmage: what about (.&&.)? |
| 18:31:03 | <tomsmeding> | hseg: how does that setup.exe even end up there? How is it built, and why is it in an old-style dist folder? |
| 18:31:36 | <hseg> | not sure -- but src/Test/Docs.hs references it explicitly by name |
| 18:31:53 | <tomsmeding> | if you clean the build first and then rebuild, does it say anything about it? |
| 18:32:10 | tomsmeding | has been burned by doctests not working in the most spectacular of ways once, long ago, and has avoided touching them since |
| 18:32:33 | <tomsmeding> | also why is the thing called setup.exe -- this is not windows? |
| 18:32:44 | <hseg> | running git clean -dffx ; cabal build shake-test |
| 18:32:50 | <hseg> | tomsmeding: oh, that's hardcoded |
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| 18:33:29 | <hseg> | https://github.com/ndmitchell/shake/blob/master/src/Test/Docs.hs#L17 |
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| 18:34:29 | <tomsmeding> | and this is the only occurrence of "setup.exe" in that repo |
| 18:34:38 | <tomsmeding> | this feels a little bit like a shake problem and not a haskell problem |
| 18:34:49 | <hseg> | fair |
| 18:34:58 | <tomsmeding> | have you managed to run this test suite outside of a special aur build? |
| 18:35:17 | <tomsmeding> | or is the directory name there just incidental and is this a manual build from the git repo |
| 18:35:25 | <hseg> | manual build from git repo |
| 18:35:29 | <tomsmeding> | I see |
| 18:35:42 | <tomsmeding> | open an issue, I guess :p |
| 18:35:43 | <hseg> | in service of eventually packaging a statically-built shake |
| 18:35:49 | <hseg> | fair 'nuff |
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| 18:49:14 | <hseg> | hrm. https://github.com/ndmitchell/shake/issues/267 and comments there suggest the test suite expects GHC_PACKAGE_PATH to be set properly in its environment |
| 18:49:22 | <hseg> | is there some way of getting cabal to do that? |
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| 18:53:10 | <geekosaur> | iirc cabal throws an error if you do that? |
| 18:53:17 | <hseg> | it does |
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| 18:53:48 | <geekosaur> | mm, actually that's if you set it outside cabal. I don't know if it's possible to have cabal set it for commands it runs |
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| 18:54:26 | <geekosaur> | but it would have potential issues since it would expose the store, which external commands could then modify without cabal knowing about it |
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| 18:55:25 | <hseg> | right... what's GHC_ENVIRONMENT that I see cabal exec setting? |
| 18:57:10 | <geekosaur> | it's an environment file |
| 18:57:39 | <geekosaur> | usually you want that disabled, which I think is what cabal is doing |
| 18:58:00 | <geekosaur> | (see `--package-env` in cabal) |
| 18:58:11 | <hseg> | nope, the opposite -- it seems to be how it's communicating the package db info to the program it runs |
| 18:58:42 | <hseg> | unfortunately, it seems that setup.exe doesn't know to pick up on that file? |
| 19:02:31 | <hseg> | hrm. any way of making Setup.hs read GHC_ENVIRONMENT? I'm only seeing support for --package-db |
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| 19:04:01 | <hseg> | ... wait, shouldn't it Just Work? |
| 19:04:14 | <hseg> | after all, GHC reads it from its environment |
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| 19:11:34 | <hseg> | .... OK, we're gradually closing in on a culprit -- it seems GHC_ENVIRONMENT is getting unset somewhere along the line |
| 19:13:02 | tomsmeding | wishing hseg luck from the sideline |
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| 19:18:46 | <hseg> | hrmph. it seems cabal _builds_ the test suite with GHC_ENVIRONMENT set, but doesn't _run_ it with it |
| 19:18:51 | <hseg> | urggh |
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| 19:24:08 | <hseg> | Giving up, I'll use something else then |
| 19:25:54 | tomsmeding | wonders how long ago it has been that this has worked properly in the first place |
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| 19:37:12 | <geekosaur> | hack, see if it's there with `cabal run`? (there are enough differences between the two that using `cabal run` to run test suites is relatively common) |
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| 19:44:02 | <hseg> | nope -- dumping environment under cabal run shows no GHC_* envvars |
| 19:44:16 | <tomsmeding> | and under `cabal exec`? |
| 19:44:33 | <tomsmeding> | (build it first with `cabal build`, then run with `cabal exec`) |
| 19:46:09 | <geekosaur> | I'd expect not; I was hoping that, since `cabal run` can build first, it'd just keep it exported |
| 19:46:35 | <hseg> | under cabal exec it does pick up GHC_ENVIRONMENT, but for some reason it isn't satisfied |
| 19:47:07 | <hseg> | wait! |
| 19:47:25 | <hseg> | cleaning the test environment, ghc clearly logs that it's loading the package environment |
| 19:48:04 | <hseg> | it's just that the compiled Setup.hs configure call doesn't make use of GHC_ENVIRONMENT |
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| 19:53:40 | <hseg> | ahhhh. the problem is that setup.hs does nothing with GHC_ENVIRONMENT |
| 19:54:30 | <hseg> | it wants to get its package dbs on the command line |
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| 20:33:03 | <Wygulmage> | tomsmedding: Sorry for the belated answer. Thank you. `.&&.` is exactly what I wanted. |
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| 20:40:06 | <tomsmeding> | Wygulmage: protip: use tab-completion for nicks, mentioning doesn't work if there's a typo :) |
| 20:40:09 | <tomsmeding> | but nice :) |
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| 20:59:16 | <hseg> | my brain is a little too fried for this -- how do I cleanly write https://0x0.st/KWE8.txt ? |
| 21:00:12 | <hseg> | the idea is to try two different ways of computing a monadic result, returning the first among them that doesn't result in m Nothing along the way, with a default |
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| 21:02:17 | <geekosaur> | asum? |
| 21:02:41 | <tomsmeding> | :t asum |
| 21:02:42 | <lambdabot> | (Foldable t, Alternative f) => t (f a) -> f a |
| 21:02:46 | <tomsmeding> | what's f here? |
| 21:02:52 | <hseg> | Maybe |
| 21:02:57 | <tomsmeding> | so what about the IO |
| 21:03:01 | <Leary> | Rather, `<|>` on `MaybeT IO`. |
| 21:03:44 | <tomsmeding> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/transformers-0.6.1.1/docs/src/Control.Monad.Trans.Maybe.html#line-165 |
| 21:04:23 | <tomsmeding> | yes and then end with `maybe default return =<<` |
| 21:04:35 | <hseg> | am getting a little confused with the tower of monads I'm using here |
| 21:04:50 | <[exa]> | in IO you can just bind to `Just env <- getEnv` and return the env in 2 alternatives, no need to do MaybeT |
| 21:05:05 | <[exa]> | (otoh yeah MaybeT is the clean way) |
| 21:05:28 | <hseg> | wait, won't Just env <- getEnv crash if the envvar is unset? |
| 21:05:37 | <[exa]> | it crashes but <|> saves |
| 21:06:00 | <tomsmeding> | doing it with IO exceptions feels ugly |
| 21:06:03 | <[exa]> | (IO is Alternative) |
| 21:07:09 | <[exa]> | yeah it feels dirty |
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| 21:07:34 | <[exa]> | but no need for transformers |
| 21:07:46 | <hseg> | problem. Shake.Action is not an Alternative |
| 21:08:42 | <tomsmeding> | Leary: hseg: like this? https://play.haskell.org/saved/C0K0rs9c |
| 21:09:06 | <tomsmeding> | this asum uses <|> on MaybeT |
| 21:09:43 | <hseg> | on MaybeT IO? |
| 21:09:49 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 21:10:01 | <tomsmeding> | but 'MaybeT m' is Alternative regardless of m, as long as m implements Monad |
| 21:10:19 | <hseg> | ah, excellent |
| 21:10:31 | <tomsmeding> | (because it chooses based on the Maybe, not based on monadic state in m) |
| 21:10:34 | <hseg> | it's been a while, am a little rusty |
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| 21:21:09 | <tomsmeding> | I very rarely use MaybeT so I also had to double-check that it does the right thing |
| 21:21:29 | <hseg> | ... for some reason it's not working when I paste it into the actual code -- ghc doesn't think this typechecks? |
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| 21:21:52 | <hseg> | (probably because there are some differences between what I pasted and what I wrote) |
| 21:25:04 | <hseg> | ... ah, that's why you wrote fmap .. $ and not <$> -- precedence |
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| 21:36:09 | <tomsmeding> | yes :) |
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| 21:46:55 | <hseg> | it builds ! |
| 21:47:01 | <hseg> | well, this bit |
| 21:47:12 | <hseg> | now to see if my patch actually fixed things... |
| 21:47:58 | <hseg> | hrmph. I broke something |
| 21:52:08 | <hseg> | btw, it seems that only by running cabal exec do I get GHC_ENVIRONMENT populated |
| 21:54:36 | hseg | facepalms |
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| 21:55:57 | <hseg> | after writing a bad parser for the environment files, realized I could just pass them as --ghc-option=-package-env --ghc-option=$GHC_ENVIRONMENT |
| 21:56:28 | <hseg> | the MaybeT code is still important, though |
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| 21:59:42 | <tomsmeding> | hseg: will you be submitting your work back as a PR? :P |
| 21:59:58 | <hseg> | I should |
| 22:00:10 | <hseg> | though it's a _mess_ |
| 22:00:50 | <tomsmeding> | well if it doesn't work without the mess... |
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| 22:03:28 | <hseg> | hrm. OK, shake complains of fewer dependencies missing |
| 22:04:53 | <hseg> | nm re being able to reuse ghc's package-env parser -- Setup.hs configure doesn't use ghc for this |
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| 22:08:35 | <hseg> | hrm. the GHC_ENVIRONMENT that cabal passes is incomplete -- it's missing the ghcup package db, which is causing eg base to be reported as missing |
| 22:10:08 | <tomsmeding> | isn't the ghcup package db really the package db of the installed GHC, and thus added by default by ghc unless you add this initial command to forget everything (forget what it's called)? |
| 22:10:25 | <hseg> | ok, by dropping the --package-db=clear parameter from my fix, configure goes through |
| 22:10:33 | <tomsmeding> | that |
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| 22:11:09 | <tomsmeding> | I meant clear-package-db in the environment file |
| 22:12:59 | <hseg> | welp. Got so far as https://0x0.st/KWE5.txt |
| 22:13:22 | <hseg> | and this is definitively where I give up |
| 22:13:57 | <tomsmeding> | hseg: do you have any idea where that ghc_2.h comes from? |
| 22:14:16 | <tomsmeding> | omg the files don't even agree |
| 22:14:34 | <tomsmeding> | (directory 1.3.8.5 vs 1.3.9.0) |
| 22:14:49 | <hseg> | yikes yikes yikes |
| 22:15:10 | <hseg> | yeah, idk how to get this working |
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| 22:15:34 | <tomsmeding> | almost certainly that ghc_2.h file is wrong, if you can figure out where it comes from |
| 22:16:48 | <hseg> | I'm out of energy for that |
| 22:17:30 | <tomsmeding> | that's ok lol |
| 22:17:36 | <tomsmeding> | I commend your persistence |
| 22:19:31 | <int-e> | that ghc_2.h is generated by GHC here: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/blob/master/compiler/GHC/SysTools/Cpp.hs#L188 |
| 22:19:53 | <int-e> | so it should be based on whichever package versions ghc sees |
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| 22:20:05 | <tomsmeding> | leave the poor guy |
| 22:20:15 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: that was for you :P |
| 22:20:18 | <tomsmeding> | ah |
| 22:21:02 | <tomsmeding> | > 19:32 * tomsmeding has been burned by doctests not working in the most spectacular of ways once, long ago, and has avoided touching them since |
| 22:21:15 | <tomsmeding> | I shall not revise my bias here |
| 22:21:35 | <hseg> | arggh writing the bug report, I'm getting inconsistent behaviour |
| 22:22:06 | <int-e> | . o O ( maybe it'll disappear completely after a good sleep ) |
| 22:22:14 | <hseg> | the config test used to return nonzero without appearing to have failed, but now seems to be broken??? |
| 22:22:42 | <hseg> | what is this witchcraft? |
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| 22:25:55 | <int-e> | tomsmeding: I also think I'll admire this tip of the iceberg and not dive into what hseg's actually trying to do :P |
| 22:26:18 | <tomsmeding> | getting doctests to run of a project that implements a build system |
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| 22:40:54 | <hseg> | and reported https://github.com/ndmitchell/shake/issues/856 |
| 22:41:17 | <hseg> | on that note, giving up on shake for the near future |
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| 22:42:53 | <hseg> | thanks for all the help! |
| 22:43:11 | <tomsmeding> | thanks for the... popcorn, I guess |
| 22:43:20 | <hseg> | lol |
| 22:43:20 | <tomsmeding> | and not having to do all that myself |
| 22:43:30 | <tomsmeding> | meanwhile I drown myself in typers |
| 22:43:32 | <tomsmeding> | *types |
| 22:43:45 | <hseg> | types are fun! types are tetris |
| 22:43:50 | <tomsmeding> | yes! |
| 22:43:54 | <int-e> | all sorts of fun |
| 22:43:58 | <tomsmeding> | :) |
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