Logs on 2025-11-30 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:01:04 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 00:11:20 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
| 00:11:58 | → | tcard joins (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:cf17:befc:ff82:5303) |
| 00:12:04 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 00:13:55 | × | vardhan quits (~vardhan@122.172.82.9) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 00:17:07 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 00:23:26 | pavonia_ | is now known as pavonia |
| 00:27:28 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:30:27 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 00:31:35 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 00:37:02 | × | Square quits (~Square@user/square) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 00:42:50 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 00:47:28 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 00:58:13 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 01:04:35 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 01:08:54 | → | jmcantrell joins (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) |
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| 01:21:01 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 01:24:10 | × | ttybitnik quits (~ttybitnik@user/wolper) (Quit: Fading out...) |
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| 01:25:11 | omidmash5 | is now known as omidmash |
| 01:26:08 | × | bitdex_ quits (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 01:31:38 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 01:35:55 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 01:49:50 | × | Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@91-152-225-194.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 01:51:19 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 01:54:13 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
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| 02:07:55 | × | spew quits (~spew@user/spew) (Quit: WeeChat 4.6.3) |
| 02:15:07 | × | simplystuart quits (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 02:18:00 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:18:06 | × | CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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| 02:22:07 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 02:27:37 | × | chenjf quits (~chenjf@68.64.178.54) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 02:33:23 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 02:40:07 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 02:55:43 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 03:01:12 | → | kmein joins (~weechat@user/kmein) |
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| 03:05:02 | × | op_4 quits (~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 03:21:01 | × | simplystuart quits (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 05:11:05 | → | haritz joins (~hrtz@user/haritz) |
| 05:13:04 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 05:14:06 | × | Lord_of_Life quits (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 05:26:25 | × | humasect_ quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 05:38:50 | × | jmcantrell quits (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.2) |
| 05:38:55 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 05:49:25 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 06:11:26 | × | hdggxin quits (~hdggxin@2401:4900:88a8:aa95:fc31:6628:c450:9224) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 06:13:09 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
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| 06:21:55 | ← | marlino parts (~marlino@96-8-193-33.block0.gvtc.com) (WeeChat 4.7.2) |
| 06:25:15 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 06:53:01 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-85-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 07:21:27 | × | Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 07:27:19 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 07:38:06 | × | Lord_of_Life quits (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine) |
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| 08:31:15 | × | Lord_of_Life quits (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine) |
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| 08:36:24 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
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| 19:52:57 | <hololeap> | I just realized that I don't exactly know what a "witness" is, even though I've intuited it, more or less |
| 19:53:03 | <hololeap> | https://blog.jle.im/entry/introduction-to-singletons-1.html |
| 19:53:09 | <hololeap> | > We say that SOpened is a runtime witness to s being 'Opened. |
| 19:53:11 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:61: error: |
| 19:53:11 | <lambdabot> | parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) |
| 19:53:30 | <hololeap> | is there a proper definition somewhere? |
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| 19:55:32 | <[exa]> | hololeap: tbh I was thinking about that very informally too. Usually turns out the SOened can't ever exist if the thing wasn't opened in the first place (unless people are cheating with unsafeCreateWitness or whatever) |
| 19:56:39 | <[exa]> | and wait that might be the easier case. :D |
| 19:56:39 | <hololeap> | could you, for instance, say that (Proxy 'Opened) is a type-level witness to Opened |
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| 20:00:03 | <[exa]> | https://serokell.io/blog/haskell-type-level-witness sounds useful |
| 20:00:54 | <[exa]> | still no good definition but: "The core idea of the type witness technique is to use this information [conditional branches in the code] to make the compiler infer the attributes of a polymorphic type, such as what the inferred type is, how it is constrained, etc." |
| 20:01:57 | <hololeap> | thanks, that seems very enlightening |
| 20:02:14 | <[exa]> | so essentially |
| 20:02:30 | <mauke> | witness testimony is evidence |
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| 20:03:51 | <[exa]> | it seems to imply a definition like: "runtime witness" is if you have properly shaped data that couldn't have been created in another way than the one you're expecting (e.g., you make sure only the html escapers produce CheckedHtml newtype). "Type witness" is when you add a completely value- irrelevant extra labels to types (like to Proxy!) that you later use in the same way. |
| 20:03:55 | <[exa]> | corrections welcome tho. :D |
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| 20:07:31 | <[exa]> | mauke: hey btw I noticed yesterday when submitting a patch to `streaming` package that you have a few PRs open there as well. I hope irc nick == github nick :D .. in that case, do you have any recent info from maintainers? |
| 20:08:01 | <mauke> | no, nothing |
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| 20:16:23 | <monochrom> | "witness" can be one of: a value v of a type T is a witness of type T; for an existential type/sentence "exists x. foo", a value for x that satisfies foo is a witness of the existential type/sentence. |
| 20:17:06 | <monochrom> | The former is also called "inhabitant". Why so many names? I guess it's the same as why we have "theorem", "lemma", "corollary", ... |
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| 20:20:00 | <monochrom> | In the case of singleton and jle's explanation, I think the most useful point is this: In Agda or Lean you would be writing a type like "(x :: T) -> foo x", but you can't in Haskell, you take a concession and write "T -> (singleton type for T) -> foo ...". |
| 20:20:49 | <monochrom> | or "(singleton type for T) -> foo ...", I forgot which one. |
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| 20:38:05 | <monochrom> | And Agda's or Lean's "exists x::T. foo x" becomes Haskell's existential type "data E = forall t. E (singleton type for T with type param t) (foo t)" |
| 20:39:06 | <monochrom> | Singleton types being GADTs, the type parameter is almost as good as real dependent types. Well, almost. |
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| 20:52:28 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> There exists this proposal too: https://richarde.dev/papers/2021/exists/exists.pdf |
| 20:53:08 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> but it got stalled I guess? Because you'd need to turn haskell's core into calculus of constructions or something.. |
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| 20:57:54 | <iqubic> | Does using the cabal setting 'default-language: GHC2021' automatically turn on -Wall? |
| 20:58:03 | <monochrom> | No. |
| 20:58:36 | <monochrom> | Use "ghc-options: -Wall" but I haven't spellchecked that. |
| 20:59:20 | <monochrom> | `cabal init` will add that for you in its initial *.cabal file. |
| 20:59:47 | <iqubic> | I see. That makes sense. |
| 21:00:13 | <iqubic> | Is it possible to disable warnings for partial functions, but get all other warnings? |
| 21:00:54 | <monochrom> | I think I saw it in the GHC User's Guide somewhere. |
| 21:02:08 | <iqubic> | I'm not sure how I'd find that... |
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| 21:02:56 | <iqubic> | Ah... it's '-Wno-...' for disabling a warning. |
| 21:03:22 | <monochrom> | There wee some other options I needed and I did not "find", I read the list of all options under a suitable category. |
| 21:03:33 | <glguy> | -Wno-x-partial |
| 21:03:46 | <iqubic> | Thanks. |
| 21:03:48 | <glguy> | that warning is hacked in with an extension warning, so it's harder to find than others |
| 21:04:18 | <monochrom> | The collateral ROI being that I picked up some other options I didn't need back then but did later. |
| 21:05:29 | <iqubic> | How do I enable that in my Cabal file? |
| 21:05:40 | <monochrom> | Similarly I found interesting books I didn't know I needed by going to the physical library bookshelf for the book I thought I needed but "wait a second all these other neighbouring books are way more interesting!" |
| 21:06:43 | <tomsmeding> | iqubic: ghc-options: -Wno-x-partial |
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| 21:07:39 | <tomsmeding> | iqubic: if you only want to enable it in a specific module, you can also add {-# OPTIONS -Wno-x-partial #-} at the top of the file |
| 21:08:08 | <monochrom> | "The side quests are more important than the destination" >:) |
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| 21:09:20 | <[exa]> | mauke: ok thanks for info, I'll try to push there a bit and see |
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| 21:17:42 | <iqubic> | I seem to be getting a weird "missing-home-modules" error in GHCi. |
| 21:18:30 | <iqubic> | When I load up Day01 in GHCi I'm given an error. |
| 21:18:33 | <iqubic> | https://gist.github.com/IQubic/ae3f1e0c3062ffd0a65035771dffdc90 |
| 21:18:58 | <iqubic> | I can't tell if this is a Nix thing or not. |
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| 21:19:37 | <yin> | i hate Prelude -.- |
| 21:19:50 | <iqubic> | Why? |
| 21:20:29 | <yin> | namespace pollution, mostly |
| 21:21:21 | <tomsmeding> | iqubic: how are you starting ghci? |
| 21:21:49 | <iqubic> | Via Emacs. I'm using Haskell-Mode to open the repl for me. |
| 21:22:02 | <tomsmeding> | does it work if you `cabal repl` in the terminal? |
| 21:22:26 | <iqubic> | No. |
| 21:23:30 | <tomsmeding> | can you post the full output of `cabal repl`? |
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| 21:25:43 | <iqubic> | https://dpaste.alwaysdata.org/jTztyJ0w |
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| 21:26:23 | <tomsmeding> | iqubic: don't use :l, it throws away the environment that cabal set up for you and loads things from scratch again |
| 21:26:40 | <tomsmeding> | at which point it's forgotten that you had those other-modules set, so you get the warning |
| 21:26:43 | <tomsmeding> | use :m *Day01 |
| 21:27:05 | <tomsmeding> | (or, if you don't care, disable the warning in ghci) |
| 21:27:26 | <iqubic> | Yeah, that works. |
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| 21:27:51 | <iqubic> | Can I then use :r to reload the module when I make changes to Day01? |
| 21:28:00 | <tomsmeding> | yes |
| 21:28:43 | <iqubic> | thank you! |
| 21:28:59 | <tomsmeding> | the problem is that :r adds the first module in the list in your cabal file to the scope if it isn't already there; this means, in your case, that if you do :m *Day02 and then :r, you'll have _both_ Day01 and Day02 in scope |
| 21:29:16 | <tomsmeding> | You'll have to do :m *Day02 again, or :m -Day01, to get Day02 only |
| 21:29:43 | <tomsmeding> | I hate this behaviour and I have still not complained officially about it |
| 21:29:57 | <iqubic> | Thanks. This is for Advent of Code stuff. I'm just getting my development environment set up for this year. |
| 21:30:02 | <iqubic> | It seems to be working now. |
| 21:30:07 | <tomsmeding> | related tip: put `:set prompt "%s> " in your .ghci, then it shows you which modules you have in scope |
| 21:30:15 | <tomsmeding> | this was default pre-GHC-9.0 but they changed it to "ghci> " |
| 21:30:20 | <tomsmeding> | then you can at least see what's up |
| 21:32:49 | <tomsmeding> | (I often do `:def R \_ -> Prelude.return ":r\n:m -Day01\n"` or similar so that I can :R and have ghci do the right thing) |
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| 21:36:07 | <iqubic> | Thanks. |
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| 22:28:57 | <Leary> | hololeap, [exa]: X is witness to P if the existence of X proves P. The most familiar kind of witness is the counterexample, which witnesses the negation of a universal statement. |
| 22:30:02 | <hololeap> | right on |
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| 23:52:07 | <iqubic> | Is it just me, or are people being slow to look at GitHub issues for the Emacs Haskell-Mode repo? |
| 23:52:15 | <iqubic> | https://github.com/haskell/haskell-mode/issues/1884 |
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| 23:57:00 | <iqubic> | Also, has the Haskell LSP changed how it classifies module names in imports? Something about my setup changed and I can't seem to figure out why. See the GH issue for more info. |
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