Logs on 2025-12-10 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:01:59 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-83-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 00:05:40 | × | Googulator29 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-2445-f5ec-8aae-509e-144e.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
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| 00:11:25 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 00:14:55 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
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| 00:43:36 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 00:46:56 | × | pebble quits (~pebble@37.63.35.15) (Quit: KVIrc 5.2.8 Quasar http://www.kvirc.net/) |
| 00:48:52 | × | xff0x quits (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:bc8b:d352:26e5:1f26) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 00:50:37 | jmcantrell_ | is now known as jmcantrell |
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| 00:57:07 | × | jmcantrell quits (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 00:58:51 | × | peutri quits (~peutri@bobo.desast.re) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 00:59:28 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 01:05:30 | → | peutri joins (~peutri@bobo.desast.re) |
| 01:05:43 | → | Googulator51 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-2445-f5ec-8aae-509e-144e.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 01:05:43 | × | Googulator69 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-2445-f5ec-8aae-509e-144e.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 01:06:01 | × | tomcrt quits (~tomcrt@2600:8800:5000:f790:7118:4033:3fda:6c3d) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 01:10:28 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 01:24:35 | × | divlamir quits (~divlamir@user/divlamir) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 01:37:23 | omidmash1 | is now known as omidmash |
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| 01:42:16 | × | [_________] quits (~oos95GWG@user/oos95GWG) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 01:44:18 | × | shreyasminocha quits (51fdc93eda@user/shreyasminocha) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 01:44:18 | × | AlexNoo quits (~AlexNoo@85.174.180.40) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 01:44:18 | SoF0 | is now known as SoF |
| 01:44:18 | → | [_________] joins (~oos95GWG@user/oos95GWG) |
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| 01:44:24 | × | edwtjo quits (~edwtjo@h-155-4-52-89.A213.priv.bahnhof.se) (Changing host) |
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| 01:45:04 | × | sm2n quits (ae95cb1267@user/sm2n) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 01:45:36 | shreyasminocha_ | is now known as shreyasminocha |
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| 01:49:55 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 02:00:24 | × | jmcantre1 quits (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:24 | × | dysfigured quits (~dfg@50.116.28.89) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:24 | × | Pixi` quits (~Pixi@user/pixi) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:24 | × | xff0x quits (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:24 | × | peutri quits (~peutri@bobo.desast.re) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:24 | × | _\_ quits (~o@user/offon) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:24 | × | FANTOM_ quits (~fantom@90.244.161.115) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:25 | × | elarks quits (~yerri@user/yerrii) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:25 | × | Ikosit quits (~Ikosit@user/ikosit) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:25 | × | vanishingideal quits (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:25 | × | op_4 quits (~tslil@user/op-4/x-9116473) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:25 | × | lambdabot quits (~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:25 | × | dolio quits (~dolio@130.44.140.168) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:25 | × | chiselfuse quits (~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:26 | × | Miroboru quits (~myrvoll@84.215.250.50) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:26 | × | gentauro quits (~gentauro@user/gentauro) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:26 | × | energizer quits (~energizer@user/energizer) (*.net *.split) |
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| 02:00:26 | × | natto- quits (~natto@129.154.243.159) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:26 | × | oppili quits (~oppili@user/nerdypepper) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:26 | × | Wanderer quits (~wanderer@user/wanderer) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:26 | × | Athas quits (athas@sigkill.dk) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:26 | × | mstruebing quits (~mstruebin@ns343649.ip-188-165-193.eu) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:26 | × | ByronJohnson quits (~bairyn@MAIL.DIGITALKINGDOM.ORG) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:26 | × | carbolymer quits (~carbolyme@delirium.systems) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:27 | × | Eoco quits (~ian@128.101.131.218) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:27 | × | byorgey_ quits (~byorgey@user/byorgey) (*.net *.split) |
| 02:00:27 | lll | is now known as _\_ |
| 02:00:27 | op_4_ | is now known as op_4 |
| 02:00:28 | Ikosit2 | is now known as Ikosit |
| 02:00:31 | → | jonnie_ joins (~jonnie@user/jonnie) |
| 02:01:01 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 02:01:05 | jonnie_ | is now known as jonnie |
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| 02:02:20 | × | lambdabot quits (~lambdabot@int-e.eu) (Changing host) |
| 02:02:20 | → | lambdabot joins (~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) |
| 02:02:20 | ChanServ | sets mode +v lambdabot |
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| 02:06:22 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 02:08:48 | × | sindu quits (~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 02:08:54 | × | ephemient quits (uid407513@user/ephemient) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) |
| 02:10:05 | × | skum quits (~skum@user/skum) (Quit: WeeChat 4.8.1) |
| 02:10:13 | → | FANTOM joins (~fantom@90.244.161.115) |
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| 02:14:50 | × | CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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| 02:17:21 | × | Tuplanolla1 quits (~Tuplanoll@91-152-225-194.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 02:19:59 | × | remedan quits (~remedan@78-80-95-79.customers.tmcz.cz) (Quit: Bye!) |
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| 02:35:10 | × | vanishing quits (~vanishing@user/vanishingideal) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
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| 02:39:19 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-vr.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 02:40:44 | × | Googulator51 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-2445-f5ec-8aae-509e-144e.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 02:40:50 | → | Googulator81 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-2445-f5ec-8aae-509e-144e.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
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| 02:46:48 | jmcantrell_ | is now known as jmcantrell |
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| 03:04:28 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-83-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 03:15:41 | × | Googulator81 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-2445-f5ec-8aae-509e-144e.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 03:19:19 | → | xff0x joins (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) |
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| 03:29:48 | × | Googulator46 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-2445-f5ec-8aae-509e-144e.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 03:35:25 | → | ephemient joins (uid407513@user/ephemient) |
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| 04:03:57 | × | notzmv quits (~umar@user/notzmv) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 05:26:24 | <iqubic> | Is there a megaparsec combinator for parse any character in this string? |
| 05:27:01 | <iqubic> | So, like parse either a single '#' or a single '.' or fail. |
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| 05:28:57 | <int-e> | `oneOf` (referenced from and implemented in terms of `satisfy`) |
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| 05:44:38 | <iqubic> | Shoutout to 'unzip3' being a goated function |
| 05:44:42 | <iqubic> | :t unzip3 |
| 05:44:43 | <lambdabot> | [(a, b, c)] -> ([a], [b], [c]) |
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| 06:37:25 | <Guest7> | Hey y'all! I am learning how to write a type checker for System F (my type checker is for an extension of typed System F) and I am trying to understand how alpha equivalence works in the apply case: (e1 e2). For the sake of simplicity, I am renaming using Ints. Will (\lambda x.x) (\lambda y.y) get renamed to (\lambda 0.0) (\lambda 1.1) or (\lambda |
| 06:37:25 | <Guest7> | 0.0) (\lambda 0.0)? |
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| 06:40:47 | <Guest7> | anyone? |
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| 06:57:55 | <int-e> | well, all those three terms are alpha-equivalent |
| 06:59:12 | <int-e> | But maybe you want to rename distinct variables apart; in that case the third term doesn't accomplish that. |
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| 07:10:27 | <Guest7> | yeah, I found that the hard way lol |
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| 11:03:06 | <lucabtz> | i implemented the grid functionality i was asking about a few days ago https://paste.tomsmeding.com/QNyPZ97n |
| 11:03:43 | <lucabtz> | what would make the Applicative instance would be pure = singleton and <*> = applyTo |
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| 15:00:12 | <bwe> | What's the proper way to pass in an argument via Reader Monad for a Megaparsec parser? https://paste.tomsmeding.com/kyjewT46 |
| 15:00:33 | <bwe> | (of course, `import Control.Monad.Reader`) |
| 15:05:45 | <mauke> | wouldn't it be ReaderT Config Parser Result? |
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| 15:09:04 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Either that or ParsecT e s (Reader Config) |
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| 15:13:26 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Looking at the megaparsec types, what mаuke has written is a better option: it has a MonadParsec instance and it allows you to use ReaderT without any lifts too |
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| 15:26:28 | <larsivi> | Hello folks! I'm an oldhat dev that suddenly decided to check out Haskell. I'm starting with the essentials, getting neovim to work properly ... The only issue so far, is getting the bikeshed colored properly. The haskell-vim has been installed (tried both lazy and manually), but I only get the default colors. I do have haskell-tools installed (and apparently works), in case that can cause some |
| 15:26:30 | <larsivi> | conflicts. My neovim is recent and with not much installed in terms of plugins.Doing all this on Arch. Did anyone here have similar issues that got it working? |
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| 15:47:12 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> larsivi I don't remember the issues I had with haskell-vim, but at some point I forked it and made some changes |
| 15:47:21 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Gosh it's been so long |
| 15:47:50 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Are there no haskell colors in vim by default nowadays? Afair the haskell-vim just does them differently |
| 15:48:12 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> But if you're using neovim with lsp, you can get the colors from the lsp server itself (though I personally turn it off all the time) |
| 15:54:57 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> Hmm, would making some internal data structures boxed unlifted help performance over strictness annotations? |
| 15:55:18 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> Or are they a solution looking for a problem? |
| 15:59:29 | <bwe> | Morj: Can I still combine multiple `ReaderT Config Parser Result` into a new parser / with non ReaderT `Parser Result` parsers? |
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| 16:01:16 | <merijn> | bwe: `Parser` is just `ParserT () Identity` iirc |
| 16:01:47 | <merijn> | tbh you probably want `ParserT () Reader` |
| 16:02:06 | <bwe> | my definition of Parser currently is `type Parser = Parsec Void Text` |
| 16:02:24 | <merijn> | bwe: Yeah, but `Parsec` is a transformer under the hood |
| 16:02:49 | <merijn> | bwe: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/parsec-3.1.18.0/docs/Text-Parsec.html#t:Parsec |
| 16:02:56 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> Also, ReaderT is just r -> m a. You combine them with non Reader monads by running it. |
| 16:02:58 | <bwe> | I see. |
| 16:03:43 | <bwe> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/megaparsec-9.7.0/docs/Text-Megaparsec.html#t:Parsec |
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| 16:30:40 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> Like, I'm thinking about fingertrees, and I'm at the very least thinking that Digits should be unlifted. |
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| 16:39:42 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Zemyla what do you mean «boxed unlifted»? Did you mean that the structures that were boxed you want to make unlifted? |
| 16:39:54 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Unlifted values can help performance in tight loops when ghc optimizer can't unlift your data by itself for whatever reason. When not in tight loops, it can confuse the regular optimizations and rewrite rules though |
| 16:41:41 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> You know the standard fingertree structure, right? data FingerTree a = Empty | Single a | Deep !Int !(Digit a) (FingerTree (Node a)) !(Digit a)? |
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| 16:41:52 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Plus, and I may be wrong about it, unboxed values interact differently with gc and may use its slower algorithms |
| 16:41:57 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> I'm thinking of making the Digits boxed unlifted. |
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| 16:42:31 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Honestly not familiar! But the answer depends on what you want to do with the Digits after construction |
| 16:42:37 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> I'm pretty sure they use the same algorithm, given arrays are examples of boxed unlifted arrays. |
| 16:43:02 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> *boxed unlifted values. |
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| 16:44:47 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I googled the terminology: unlifted is anything that can't have bottom; unboxed types are unlifted, but not all that is unlifted is unboxed. Right? |
| 16:49:48 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Yes, I confused unlifted and unboxed. You mentioned like MutableByteArray# that is boxed but unlifted |
| 16:51:16 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> That's cool. I don't know anything about the performance of unlifted types |
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| 16:59:41 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> https://ghc.gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/doc/users_guide/exts/primitives.html#unlifted-datatypes |
| 17:00:07 | <dolio> | Will it make a difference to justify the effort in this case, though? |
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| 17:02:58 | <dolio> | I guess it might not be much effort, but what does it do other than eliminate the ! around Digit in the finger tree definition? I don't think digts are used except incidentally in the implementation, so changing their overall calling convention doesn't seem like it'd affect much. |
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| 17:04:05 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Since 9.2, that's older than I thought. I'll remember it next time I'm writing some benchmark |
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| 17:05:23 | <dolio> | I think the feature is more for when you're directly using some structure widely, and you know it should remain evaluated, so you'd have to sprinkle ! on a lot of arguments of the type. |
| 17:05:27 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> True. What might make a bigger difference is the next idea. I'm thinking of Elem a = Elem2 a a | Elem3 a a a, and Node a = Node2 !Int !a !a | Node3 !Int !a !a !a |
| 17:06:26 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> Nodes only contain Elems or other Nodes. I might make Elem and Node unlifted. |
| 17:06:55 | <dolio> | And might be an optimization in that case, because putting ! on arguments means that GHC has to insert code to evaluate things that might already be evaluated. |
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| 17:14:24 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> There's a couple issues, though. The big one is Traversable. |
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| 17:15:22 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> The other one is that the values in a Node aren't always strict (for instance, with inits and tails). |
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| 17:17:27 | <dolio> | Yeah, some of the asymptotic performance of finger trees depends on laziness, so I'm not sure you can make Node unlifted. |
| 17:17:34 | <dolio> | I don't recall the details, though. |
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| 17:26:49 | <larsivi> | Morj: There are default colors, but only a couple of elements in vague colors. Since haskell-vim hasn't been updated in a few years, I thought that could be a reason too. I suppose I have LSP via haskell-tools, but it hasn't brought a lot of colors (yet!) |
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| 17:30:35 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> My fork of haskell-vim also hasn't been updated in how many years and still works, so I doubt that /that/ is the problem |
| 17:31:27 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Your original problem was that the haskell-vim colors look like the original colors? |
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| 17:37:07 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Wow, comparing them side by side right now, today I wouldn't make the choice to use haskell-vim, the default colors are just fine |
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| 17:48:57 | <larsivi> | Hah, maybe I'm just a colorful person! I suppose I'll find some neovimmy place to ask :) Thanks! I'm sure I'll be back with other questions when I get into actual Haskell issues. |
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| 19:11:01 | <milan> | Hello guyz why https://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.21.0.0/docs/GHC-IO-StdHandles.html has "Portability non-portable" specified when it's purpose is to be portable? This is written in docs "This model abstracts away the platform specific handles that can be toggled through the RTS." |
| 19:12:33 | <tomsmeding> | the Portability field in the module metadata is for portability across compilers. The stuff under "GHC." is, unsurprisingly, not at all portable to compilers other than GHC. |
| 19:13:27 | <tomsmeding> | although with GHC being essentially the only realistic compiler for Haskell for the past decade(s?), these metadata fields are not always filled in quite as diligently as one might hope |
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| 19:20:15 | <milan> | tomsmeding: But this does not prevent using different backend (native, LLVM, c ...) right? Only different compiler altogether like "hugs"? |
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| 19:28:21 | <tomsmeding> | milan: that should indeed be true. Although these functions in particular you should probably get from System.IO instead of GHC.IO.StdHandles |
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| 19:36:06 | <monochrom> | In this case, "platform" means Linux vs Windows vs MacOS vs BSD vs... |
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| 19:53:15 | ChanServ | sets mode +v haskellbridge |
| 19:54:23 | <geekosaur> | I have no idea why it did that |
| 19:54:29 | <geekosaur> | (or why it recovered) |
| 19:57:44 | <milan> | tomsmeding: Thanks |
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| 20:03:36 | <Wygulmage> | Is there some deep reason that `deleteFirstsBy` applies its predicate argument in the opposite order of its list arguments? So that `deleteFirstsBy (<=)` means 'for each value in the second list, delete the first value in the first list that is greater than it'? |
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| 20:24:53 | <jmct> | Hey all, we're reviving the State of Haskell survey, should take around 10 minutes and all participation is appreciated! https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/6M3Z6NV |
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| 21:53:41 | × | Wygulmage quits (~Wygulmage@user/Wygulmage) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 21:54:29 | _________ | is now known as noodly |
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| 21:55:33 | noodly | is now known as _________ |
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| 21:58:48 | × | Milan quits (~Milan@88.212.61.169) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 21:59:01 | AlexZenon_2 | is now known as AlexZenon |
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| 22:37:26 | × | takuan quits (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 23:33:35 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:fc9c:738b:219c:bafe) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
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| 23:42:35 | × | sindu quits (~sindu@2.148.32.207.tmi.telenormobil.no) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:44:15 | × | Pozyomka quits (~pyon@user/pyon) (Quit: brb!) |
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| 23:45:18 | → | Pozyomka joins (~pyon@user/pyon) |
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All times are in UTC on 2025-12-10.