Logs on 2025-12-22 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:22:15 | <yin> | ah, the principle of implosion |
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| 00:23:29 | <monochrom> | I don't know, I see that as: since every program fails to type-check, so every program has mistakes |
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| 00:31:45 | <ncf> | MLTT + Π + Σ + {one of U or 0} would do |
| 00:32:09 | <ncf> | (can't have a universe *and* an empty type because that typically means you have a code for the empty type in the universe, which is a term!) |
| 00:33:37 | <ncf> | i suppose you could have U + coproducts |
| 00:35:00 | <ncf> | oh, and identity types! |
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| 02:29:05 | <iqubic> | Is there some reason why the package MemoTrie doesn't have any instances for "MemoTrie v => MemoTrie (Set v)" and "(MemoTrie k, MemoTrie v) => MemoTrie (Map k v)" |
| 02:29:18 | <iqubic> | @hackage MemoTrie |
| 02:29:18 | <lambdabot> | https://hackage.haskell.org/package/MemoTrie |
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| 06:10:12 | <Leary> | Am I doing something silly here <https://github.com/LSLeary/heterogeneous-comparison/blob/usg/src/Control/Monad/USG.hs#L124-L132>? I feel like there should be a better way to atomically increment a mutable `Int64` on 32bit arch. |
| 06:12:25 | <Axman6> | does https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/atomic-counter-0.1.2.4/docs/Control-Concurrent-Counter.html help at all? |
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| 06:15:45 | <Leary> | Axman6: Unfortunately not; it seems only to support an |Int| sized counter, which may be too small on 32bit. |
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| 06:37:24 | <int-e> | Leary: Not with the primops available I think. CMM has a `prim %fetch_add64` operation though, which I think is mapped to a call to hs_atomic_add64, which uses GCC's __sync_fetch_and_add(), which may be a cas loop internally (probably is for 32 bit targets). Or possibly even something with a lock. |
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| 06:38:50 | <int-e> | Binding to the RTS's hs_atomic_add64 with FFI might not be the worst idea in the world? |
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| 06:43:54 | <Leary> | int-e: Thanks, I'll look into it. |
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| 07:03:49 | <int-e> | Leary: Ah, but this opens the can of worms of doing address calculations in Haskell (hoping the compiler won't add a stack or heap check in the mix that might trigger a GC)... gah. This is why there are those array-based primops, after all. |
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| 08:44:35 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 08:44:50 | × | poscat quits (~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 11:20:01 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-80-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 11:38:19 | × | lambda_gibbon quits (~lambda_gi@2603:7080:ee00:37d8:dcc4:d31b:c3d9:56cd) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 11:43:27 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
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| 12:53:50 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-80-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 13:39:59 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-80-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 14:05:22 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
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| 14:14:41 | × | somemathguy quits (~somemathg@user/somemathguy) (Client Quit) |
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| 14:21:39 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 14:21:56 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-80-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 14:34:26 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-80-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 14:36:55 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 14:39:38 | × | xdej quits (~xdej@quatramaran.salle-s.org) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:42:00 | × | jzargo quits (~jzargo@user/jzargo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 14:50:31 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 14:51:59 | × | Lycurgus quits (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org )) |
| 14:58:32 | × | duckworld quits (~duckworld@user/duckworld) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 15:00:55 | × | bitdex quits (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:01:03 | × | duckworld quits (~duckworld@user/duckworld) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 15:14:00 | → | weary-traveler joins (~user@user/user363627) |
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| 15:51:40 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 15:51:40 | × | synchromesh quits (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:1031:6e9d:4234:64a3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 15:52:34 | → | synchromesh joins (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:1031:6e9d:4234:64a3) |
| 15:53:18 | × | bitdex quits (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:54:13 | → | bitdex joins (~bitdex@gateway/tor-sasl/bitdex) |
| 15:56:33 | × | pavonia quits (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!) |
| 16:02:47 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 16:07:19 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 16:16:50 | → | machinedgod joins (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) |
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| 16:31:02 | × | lucabtz quits (~lucabtz@user/lucabtz) (Quit: Lost terminal) |
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| 17:02:38 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-80-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 17:10:56 | × | haetsal quits (~quassel@221.138.168.192) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) |
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| 18:51:36 | <haskellbridge> | <Zemyla> I kind of wish there was an atomic swap for two MVars. |
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| 18:57:49 | <gentauro> | anybody know if James Faure is here ^_^? What an absolute masterpiece "Rust and the price of ignoring theory" <3 |
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| 19:12:14 | <iqubic> | Is there some reason why the package MemoTrie doesn't have any instances for "MemoTrie v => MemoTrie (Set v)" and "(MemoTrie k, MemoTrie v) => MemoTrie (Map k v)" |
| 19:13:33 | <monochrom> | Zemyla: Add one more MVar to atomize the swapping of two existing MVars! |
| 19:13:35 | <iqubic> | Those would be useful for me, and I'm not really seeing what prevents those from existing. |
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| 19:23:51 | <EvanR> | atomic swap of two MVars sounds like someone screaming out for STM |
| 19:24:33 | <gentauro> | EvanR: linear-types? |
| 19:24:44 | <monochrom> | Yeah STM should be much simpler. But sometimes there are causes for sticking to MVars. You never know the context of contextless generic questions! |
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| 19:28:21 | <monochrom> | Actually you can just perform two takeMVars then two putMVars. You already have atomicity. If every site does it in the same order, you won't have deadlocks. |
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| 19:34:02 | <EvanR> | ensure that like this |
| 19:34:16 | <EvanR> | MVar (A, MVar B) |
| 19:34:17 | <EvanR> | xD |
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| 19:34:38 | <monochrom> | I think MChan is like that. |
| 19:35:10 | <EvanR> | where A = B because we're trying to swap |
| 19:36:14 | <monochrom> | Err s/MChan/Chan/ |
| 19:37:18 | <monochrom> | data ChItem a = ChItem a (MVar (ChItem a)) |
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| 19:43:46 | <mastarija> | Arrows have some benefits like being statically analyzable and in theory we can perform more optimizations on them. Can Arrows reap some of those static analysis benefits in the current GHC or are we just limited to things like preventing memory leaks in parsers and FRP? |
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| 19:49:13 | <EvanR> | does GHC use "laws" of typeclasses in general? |
| 19:49:26 | <EvanR> | to simplify things |
| 19:50:10 | <mastarija> | No :) |
| 19:50:48 | <geekosaur> | ghc knows nothing about laws. some RULES assume that various laws hold, meaning they produce breakage if they don't, but nothing checks or otherwise uses them |
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| 19:51:02 | <mastarija> | But it does recognize some things IIRC and can apply some optimizations in certain cases. |
| 19:51:57 | <mastarija> | Optimizations related to some "laws", not in general. |
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| 21:08:49 | <hololeap> | can someone remind me what the syntax is in a .cabal file for (if ghc >= 9.6) |
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| 21:14:16 | <hololeap> | found it: if impl(ghc >= 9.6) |
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| 23:46:44 | <hololeap> | does anyone know of a library that can help visualize the differences here? http://dpaste.com/2WQKM83JU |
| 23:47:51 | <hololeap> | even greater would be if it plugged into tasty somehow |
| 23:48:09 | <hololeap> | or HUnit |
| 23:48:18 | <sm> | delta is a good command line diff viewer |
| 23:48:45 | <sm> | ideally, if you could arrange to print those on multiple lines, eg with pretty-simple, they'll be much easier to compare |
| 23:49:31 | <sm> | but as it is, it's pretty easy to spot the difference visually if you can scroll horizontally, no ? |
| 23:50:18 | sm | tries.. eh, not so easy; it's too big |
| 23:50:27 | <hololeap> | sure, but I'm looking for something that can automate this to some degree |
| 23:50:43 | <sm> | I would pretty-print on multiple lines, and diff that |
| 23:51:02 | <sm> | or arrange for more terse output you can compare |
| 23:52:11 | <sm> | short answer, I don't know the tool that can help compare two huge lines - maybe LLM can show a one-liner with awk or some such ? |
| 23:52:22 | <hololeap> | meld is fine for that |
| 23:52:48 | <hololeap> | well, like you said, it's easier to run it through pretty-simple first |
| 23:53:36 | <hololeap> | but... is there something that e.g. uses generics to compare two data structures of the same type, and give some representation of the differences? |
| 23:54:08 | <hololeap> | even if the representation is yet another haskell data structure |
| 23:54:33 | <sm> | I don't know its name, but I have the feeling there is |
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| 23:59:03 | <hololeap> | would be very cool if there was |
| 23:59:18 | <mauke> | https://github.com/mauke/irssi-scripts/blob/master/topic_diff.pl does line diffs |
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