Logs on 2025-12-23 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:00:53 | <hololeap> | hm |
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| 00:17:19 | <mauke> | or in command line form: https://pt.gayr.at/p/aUnfghuYP8zplbOdeVF-w9_LQKY |
| 00:17:39 | <mauke> | conversion to haskell is left as an exercise for the reader :-) |
| 00:22:22 | <mauke> | output: https://v1.imgpaste.net/images/public/9adb1597-900e-4bf4-884c-e3cf14e04e57-a.png |
| 00:23:35 | <hololeap> | looks like this was actually designed for my use case: https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/generic-diff-0.1.0.0/docs/Generics-Diff.html |
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| 02:10:54 | <Leary> | hololeap: I've heard good things about 'tree-diff'. |
| 02:12:05 | <hololeap> | yes, I also looked at that one |
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| 02:13:03 | <hololeap> | (searched hackage for "diff") |
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| 02:15:32 | <hololeap> | generic-diff has an open bug (from the author) to add support for tests, so it seems like a good place to contribute |
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| 09:26:56 | ← | L29Ah parts (~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah) () |
| 09:30:12 | <lucabtz> | in the documentation of fix :: (a -> a) -> a it says that fix f is the lowest fixed point of f. i think lowest here is related to what c_wraith was once telling me about domain theory vs set theory in haskell |
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| 09:30:34 | <lucabtz> | i remember checking stuff quickly about domain theory and it was related to partial orders |
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| 10:59:45 | <ski> | yes, lucabtz |
| 11:00:25 | <lucabtz> | ski: do you have more information about this, somewhere i can read or even just what to search to learn about it |
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| 11:01:34 | <lucabtz> | it's pretty clear bottom in this partial order is lower than anything else (hence the name i guess), but how does it work for other stuff |
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| 15:20:49 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I just used a traversable instance for 2-tuples |
| 15:21:32 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> I'm rewriting my code from lists to NonEmpty (because I updated base and now a bunch of prelude functions throw warnings about being partial, so this started a fire under my ass where I was lazy before) |
| 15:22:33 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> And it's convenient to transform a [(ByteString, [ByteString])] into [(ByteString, NonEmpty ByteString)] via a simple `mapMaybe (traverse nonEmpty)` |
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| 15:22:52 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Though it warrants a comment for future readers for sure |
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| 15:27:31 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Though ugh, currently I do two passes: first find empty lists in one, then the second to leave only non-empty. I doubt that I can partition in single pass with just combinators, without writing a recursion myself. Hm |
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| 15:35:37 | <Leary> | % :t partitionEithers . map \case{ (a, []) -> Left a; (a, x:xs) -> Right (a, x:|xs) } |
| 15:35:37 | <yahb2> | partitionEithers . map \case{ (a, []) -> Left a; (a, x:xs) -> Right (a, x:|xs) } ; :: [(a1, [a2])] -> ([a1], [(a1, NonEmpty a2)]) |
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| 15:56:14 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Hm, pretty good! |
| 15:56:25 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Not pointfree enough, but oh well |
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| 16:42:59 | <Leary> | % :t let (.:) = (.) . (.) in partitionEithers . map (uncurry (flip . maybe Left . flip $ Right .: (,)) . fmap nonEmpty) |
| 16:42:59 | <yahb2> | let (.:) = (.) . (.) in partitionEithers . map (uncurry (flip . maybe Left . flip $ Right .: (,)) . fmap nonEmpty) ; :: [(a1, [a2])] -> ([a1], [(a1, NonEmpty a2)]) |
| 16:43:10 | <Leary> | Morj: Pick your poison. |
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| 17:02:54 | <hololeap> | or, instead of building a [(ByteString, [ByteString])], just build a [(ByteString, Maybe (NonEmpty ByteString))] from the start |
| 17:03:24 | <hololeap> | (I assume this data structure is being built using some kind of input from the real world) |
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| 17:07:42 | <Leary> | % :t partitionEithers . map ((uncurry . flip . maybe Left . flip . curry) Right . fmap nonEmpty) |
| 17:07:42 | <yahb2> | partitionEithers . map ((uncurry . flip . maybe Left . flip . curry) Right . fmap nonEmpty) ; :: [(a1, [a2])] -> ([a1], [(a1, NonEmpty a2)]) |
| 17:08:14 | <Leary> | I might actually be alright with this ... the symmetries are doing it for me. |
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| 17:19:54 | <hololeap> | Foldable1 seems kind of pointless on the surface, but now I'm seeing a few useful functions that don't have any Foldable equivalent |
| 17:22:06 | <hololeap> | being able to use a Semigroup that cannot have a Monoid instance could be very handy on occasion |
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| 17:24:56 | <monochrom> | Yeah, things like maximum may better belong to Foldable1 too. |
| 17:25:52 | <EvanR> | er, is that what Foldable1 is |
| 17:26:00 | <EvanR> | it's not a higher kinded Foldable? |
| 17:26:33 | <monochrom> | Took me a while to realize that too. :) |
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| 17:27:04 | <monochrom> | "Oh as in foldr1, not as in Eq1" |
| 17:27:45 | <monochrom> | The "Semigroup" hint helped. :) |
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| 18:26:23 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> NonEmpty for example is Foldable1 but not Foldable, so Foldable1 is pretty necessary given the push to use NonEmpty to avoid partial functions. |
| 18:27:56 | <hololeap> | NonEmpty is Foldable though |
| 18:28:41 | <hololeap> | it's just that foldMap for NonEmpty carries a Monoid constraint, when Semigroup would be enough |
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| 18:28:52 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> hmm nwm, it seems to be actually Foldable. But I vaguely remember some use of Foldable1 being related to NonEmpty. |
| 18:30:40 | <hololeap> | with a NonEmpty, you don't have to worry about the case of an empty list, thus you don't need a definition for mempty and can use any Semigroup instead |
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| 18:31:42 | <hololeap> | the fact that toNonEmpty is part of Foldable1 sort of proves that NonEmpty is the canonical Foldable1 |
| 18:33:16 | <hololeap> | I do think that Traversable1 is more useful https://hackage.haskell.org/package/semigroupoids-6.0.1/docs/Data-Semigroup-Traversable.html |
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| 18:33:45 | <hololeap> | I missed the discussion where Foldable1 was added to base and why some of the other things from semigroupoids were left out |
| 18:34:11 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> ye Foldable1 requires at least 1 item to work with because it has no starting accumulator so it's connected to NonEmpty. |
| 18:38:08 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> Were there any proposals to make NonEmpty a builtin list so you could write [1 | 2, 3] instead of 1 :| [2,3]? |
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| 18:38:30 | <hololeap> | I _think_ you can already do that with OverloadedLists |
| 18:38:56 | <hololeap> | but it shares the same syntax with list [1, 2, 3] |
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| 18:39:25 | <hololeap> | and you have to be careful not to give it [] or else you get a runtime error |
| 18:39:34 | <hololeap> | but I might be wrong on the details |
| 18:40:46 | <haskellbridge> | <loonycyborg> Yes, I think if syntax is shared then there's more potential for ambiguity |
| 18:40:46 | <hololeap> | also, I have no shame in throwing a `NonEmpty.fromList [1, 2, 3]` into my code |
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| 18:41:32 | <hololeap> | esp for tests and things where you control the input |
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| 18:43:34 | <hololeap> | but [1 | 2, 3] in theory makes sense, but it might overlap with list comprehension syntax |
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| 18:44:34 | <hololeap> | ghci> [1 | 2, 3] |
| 18:44:42 | <hololeap> | Could not deduce ‘Num Bool’ arising from the literal ‘2’ |
| 18:44:52 | <hololeap> | it's trying to process it as a list comprehension |
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| 18:46:42 | <int-e> | it keeps surprising me that people find the NonEmpty overhead worthwhile |
| 18:46:55 | <monochrom> | Please don't bring in Prolog list syntax. :( |
| 18:46:56 | <geekosaur> | it'll also potentially conflict with quasiquotations |
| 18:47:06 | <geekosaur> | I'd consider keeping the `:|` |
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| 18:48:43 | <monochrom> | Oh missed a pun opportunity! Here: Please don't bring in Prolog list syntax. :| |
| 18:48:49 | <monochrom> | (hehe) |
| 18:49:04 | <hololeap> | int-e: I think it would be even more useful if they brought Traversable1 and Apply into base. it lets you traverse _into_ (as oppsed to over) Maps |
| 18:49:50 | <hololeap> | traverse1 (\(x,y) -> Map.singleton x y) :: NonEmpty (x,y) -> Map x (NonEmpty y) |
| 18:49:59 | <hololeap> | not the most illuminating example :) |
| 18:50:15 | <monochrom> | What is Apply? |
| 18:50:26 | <hololeap> | it's Applicative sans `pure` |
| 18:50:34 | <monochrom> | Ah thanks. |
| 18:50:44 | <hololeap> | which Map is a perfect example of |
| 18:50:56 | <monochrom> | May I call it Applicable instead? >:) |
| 18:51:18 | <hololeap> | sure thing |
| 18:51:22 | <monochrom> | <-- uses dad jokes for meaningful names :) |
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| 19:02:05 | <__monty__> | int-e: Is there actually extra overhead? Or does it come in the form of lack of fusion? |
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| 19:04:25 | <int-e> | __monty__: I'm talking about programmer effort. Though replacing the top-level constructory by another one isn't free; I'm pretty sure that GHC won't reuse one for the other because the tags are different for different types. Even though it will, technically, work. |
| 19:05:24 | <int-e> | Uh, or not since [] is the first constructor of [a]. So pointer tags would be wrong. |
| 19:07:29 | <int-e> | "programmer effort" is hard to objectively quantify though because compared to just using lists, it includes both time spent on extraneous conversions and time saved on debugging empty list errors. |
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| 22:32:25 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 22:34:42 | × | __monty__ quits (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving) |
| 22:36:59 | → | tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:20d1:6701:d995:9bb6) |
| 22:39:13 | × | trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-80-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:39:27 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-80-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
| 22:43:10 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 22:49:43 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:53:56 | × | califax quits (~califax@user/califx) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 22:54:37 | × | EvanR quits (~EvanR@user/evanr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 22:57:40 | × | EvanR quits (~EvanR@user/evanr) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:01:17 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:02:24 | × | chexum quits (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:02:40 | × | prdak quits (~Thunderbi@user/prdak) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:03:01 | → | prdak joins (~Thunderbi@user/prdak) |
| 23:03:21 | → | chexum joins (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) |
| 23:06:02 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 23:08:15 | × | xff0x quits (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:d9e4:809e:15d4:e168) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 23:17:03 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:21:43 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:22:15 | → | Sgeo joins (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 23:29:15 | × | tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:20d1:6701:d995:9bb6) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) |
| 23:29:27 | → | aetepe joins (~aetepe@188.119.22.59) |
| 23:32:51 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:34:13 | × | aetepe quits (~aetepe@188.119.22.59) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 23:37:31 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 23:39:37 | × | _d0t quits (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 23:43:55 | → | _d0t joins (~{-d0t-}@user/-d0t-/x-7915216) |
| 23:47:41 | × | lockna_ quits (~lockna@193-81-168-132.hdsl.highway.telekom.at) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:48:25 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:53:15 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:53:52 | → | CryptLab joins (~NSA@2a0d:5600:24:1375::f1e) |
| 23:55:16 | → | lambda_gibbon joins (~lambda_gi@2603:7080:ee00:37d8:e0a7:677c:4fbf:6fab) |
| 23:56:55 | × | CipherLab quits (~NSA@2a0d:5600:24:1375::f1e) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 23:58:35 | × | CryptLab quits (~NSA@2a0d:5600:24:1375::f1e) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 23:58:36 | → | CipherLab joins (~NSA@2a0d:5600:24:1375::f1e) |
| 23:59:59 | × | lambda_gibbon quits (~lambda_gi@2603:7080:ee00:37d8:e0a7:677c:4fbf:6fab) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
All times are in UTC on 2025-12-23.