Logs on 2025-12-30 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 01:29:46 | yin | npm install -g npm |
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| 04:29:08 | <haskellbridge> | <maerwald> EvanR: nah, rustup is also packaged in many distros |
| 04:30:17 | <haskellbridge> | <maerwald> And GHCup is a good citizen: it installs into home. Additionally, "ghcup upgrade" doesn't do in-place updates by default to avoid broken behavior with distro installed binaries |
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| 04:42:49 | <EvanR> | ok great |
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| 17:19:06 | <janus> | is it correct that equality constraints can not be affected by quantified types? |
| 17:19:26 | <janus> | like, if i have a program, and i want to run type inference on it |
| 17:20:03 | <janus> | then, if it uses type class methods, to execute the program, i need to know which instace to pick |
| 17:20:48 | <janus> | now, what i don't understand, is whether the parts of type inference that relate to quantifications can run last, or whether they must be interleaved with other type checking steps |
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| 17:23:43 | <janus> | intuitively, it seems that they could run last, since you can't e.g. use the knowledge that you have a certain set of instances to deduce what a type variable in a quantifier is |
| 17:24:24 | <janus> | for example, if I have _only_ Eq Bool (and not Eq Int), and i see `a == b` I can't deduce that a and b must be Bool, IIRC |
| 17:26:43 | <ncf> | well, of course not. Bool isn't the only type in the universe with an Eq instance |
| 17:27:37 | <ncf> | what "parts of type inference that relate to quantifications" do you have in mind? |
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| 17:32:19 | <c_wraith> | Broadly, Haskell types assume that a type variable might be instantiated at a type that you know nothing about when writing the code that uses it. |
| 17:32:38 | <c_wraith> | Even when that's not actually possible, like when using DataKinds |
| 17:34:22 | <c_wraith> | There are some some important technical simplifications enabled by that, but the real value is just having a single set of rules. |
| 17:36:13 | <ncf> | as opposed to what? |
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| 17:40:28 | <c_wraith> | As opposed to saying that the open world assumption only applies in some cases, and then needing to learn rules about when it does and when it doesn't. |
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| 17:42:59 | <c_wraith> | (also, I think it would be literally impossible to have a compiler fully solve types without the open world assumption. I think you run into the halting problem.) |
| 17:58:39 | <[exa]> | janus: if you only have single-parameter typeclasses as in THIH, the two-step approach should AFAIK work. On the other hand, with more advanced stuff (type families, MPTCs) you can essentially simulate functions on types, and you have to mix the checking with the typelevel computation. (E.g., type unification may depend on the "result" of a type family application.) |
| 18:00:49 | <[exa]> | janus: for the former, I think there are even languages in the wild that do it that way -- after the type inference&checking is complete you can specialize ("monomorphize") stuff as you like (w.r.t. to the constraints), and you'll never hit issues. |
| 18:03:45 | <[exa]> | janus: btw btw, for some definition of your "parts of type inference that relate to quantifications", THIH might actually qualify there as two-step. |
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