Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2026-01-05 (liberachat/#haskell)

00:02:59 × ljdarj quits (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:04:02 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> sm: what is sad about a stable and well working GHC release?
00:04:40 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Should we switch to 9.8 which is abandoned or to 9.10 which has two minor broken releases (including the last one)?
00:05:07 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
00:05:17 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> 'recommended' isn't for people who want to follow the latest releases.
00:06:57 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Sorry, 9.12 is the one that's broken... I'm starting to mix up all the broken releases
00:10:01 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
00:10:11 <haskellbridge> <sm> @maerwald that's a fine thing of course. I acknowledged the no doubt excellent reasons in the linked discussion with my thumbs up. I called it sad mainly because as an experienced haskeller I expect many difficulties building current projects or using tools, and many known limitations, with those older ghc versions.
00:10:15 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> 9.6 is documented as suitable for use: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/GHC-status
00:10:41 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> sm: What difficulties?
00:12:15 <haskellbridge> <sm> i don't have a list handy. But in my time as a maintainer and packager I've worked around a ton of ghc version and platform specific bugs or limitations
00:14:21 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> What limitations?
00:14:38 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Why is 9.6 more limited than 9.10?
00:15:58 <haskellbridge> <sm> I did not prepare a list in advance of this chat have forgotten them for the moment. I could go digging in my issue tracker but it's not important
00:18:15 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
00:19:24 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> If you make this claim then I think it's important
00:20:18 <haskellbridge> <sm> I mean, I would make the effort if you are truly considering bumping the recommendation. I assume you've seen them all though and will bump when you judge best
00:20:30 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> My experience in 10 years of Haskell shows that the difficulties and limitations lie within NEW GHC versions.
00:20:41 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> There's a whole github repo dedicated to it
00:21:07 <haskellbridge> <sm> of course those exist too
00:21:23 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> https://github.com/tomjaguarpaw/tilapia
00:21:34 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> And tooling works fine with 9.6
00:21:46 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> It doesn't work as fine with new GHC versions
00:21:50 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> That's a fact
00:22:24 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> So I think your claim is wrong
00:23:22 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:23:27 <haskellbridge> <sm> fair enough, I won't argue with you
00:25:16 <haskellbridge> <sm> and as always, thank you for your work, it's appreciated
00:27:36 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> But going forward, GHCup will follow GHCs official LTS releases most likely
00:27:53 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> Once they've matured, that is
00:28:11 <haskellbridge> <sm> that'll be great, I'm looking forward to it
00:28:52 <haskellbridge> <maerwald> An LTS release is decided beforehand with no knowledge about its quality. So we'll probably wait until the micro version is at 3 or higher
00:30:35 <haskellbridge> <sm> or if it's so good there's no minor release for a year, you might make an exception ?
00:32:08 × GdeVolpiano quits (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:32:15 <haskellbridge> <sm> rather unlikely I suppose
00:32:49 × zlqrvx quits (~zlqrvx@user/zlqrvx) (Quit: connection reset by purr)
00:32:57 GdeVolpiano joins (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano)
00:33:54 zlqrvx joins (~zlqrvx@user/zlqrvx)
00:34:23 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
00:38:55 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:40:17 × spew quits (~spew@user/spew) (Quit: nyaa~)
00:50:11 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
00:55:13 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
01:05:54 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
01:06:30 omidmash1 joins (~omidmash@user/omidmash)
01:08:47 × omidmash quits (~omidmash@user/omidmash) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
01:08:47 omidmash1 is now known as omidmash
01:09:49 jmcantrell_ joins (~weechat@user/jmcantrell)
01:11:02 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
01:20:10 × Tuplanolla quits (~Tuplanoll@88-114-88-95.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Leaving.)
01:20:37 <oats> why does so much code in base and ghc use `case` for binding instead of `let` or `where`? like here: https://hackage-content.haskell.org/package/ghc-internal-9.1401.0/docs/src/GHC.Internal.Arr.html#newSTArray
01:21:14 <c_wraith> let/where create a thunk when they match on a pattern. case forces evaluation.
01:21:38 <c_wraith> > let Just x = Nothing in ()
01:21:38 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
01:22:25 <c_wraith> huh. lambdabot isn't in here right now
01:22:53 <EvanR> let x = whatever in y, a thunk makes sense
01:23:15 <EvanR> but let Pattern x y z = hopefullyPattern in e ?
01:23:30 <EvanR> doesn't immediately evaluate?
01:23:32 <c_wraith> Well, anyway. (let Just x = Nothing in ()) evaluates to (). (case Nothing of Just x -> ()) is a pattern match error.
01:24:09 <EvanR> % let Just x = Nothing in ()
01:24:09 <yahb2> <interactive>:153:5: warning: [GHC-53633] [-Woverlapping-patterns] ; Pattern match is redundant ; In a pattern binding: Just x = ... ; ; ()
01:24:21 lambdabot joins (~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot)
01:24:21 ChanServ sets mode +v lambdabot
01:24:49 × divlamir quits (~divlamir@user/divlamir) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:24:57 <c_wraith> EvanR: Irrefutable matches just create thunks. and in a let/where, matches are irrefutable by default.
01:25:00 divlamir joins (~divlamir@user/divlamir)
01:26:15 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:26:26 <EvanR> wow
01:27:34 <c_wraith> > case undefined of ~(a, b) -> () -- you can use ~ to make a match in a case irrefutable
01:27:35 <lambdabot> ()
01:27:59 jj_ joins (~apropos@node-1w7jr9pqogh9vahu1mvneock5.ipv6.telus.net)
01:28:00 <oats> % case undefined of (a,b) -> ()
01:28:00 <yahb2> *** Exception: Prelude.undefined ; ; HasCallStack backtrace: ; undefined, called at <interactive>:155:6 in interactive:Ghci16
01:28:11 <int-e> it probably got blocked by +r
01:28:39 × jj quits (~apropos@d154-20-120-135.bchsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
01:28:39 jj_ is now known as jj
01:28:40 <int-e> (lamdbabot was perfectly alive, just not joined here)
01:28:50 <c_wraith> int-e: ah, you're still running lambdabot? I wasn't sure.
01:29:09 <oats> and irrefutable patterns are lazy?
01:29:40 <oats> % case undefined of ~(a,b) -> b
01:29:40 <yahb2> *** Exception: Prelude.undefined ; ; HasCallStack backtrace: ; undefined, called at <interactive>:157:6 in interactive:Ghci16
01:29:49 <oats> t'would appear
01:29:56 <c_wraith> Yeah. "irrefutable" is a slightly weird way of saying "trust the programmer, you don't need to check this immediately"
01:30:33 <int-e> c_wraith: yes
01:31:47 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> How can you make patterns in let and where refutable?
01:31:49 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> Like you said they're irrefutable "by default"
01:32:14 <c_wraith> loonycyborg: You need the BangPatterns extension, then you mark the match with !
01:33:17 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> Ah makes sense I guess
01:33:33 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> and what happens in case of non-exhaustive match at runtime?
01:33:45 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> Same thing as usual?
01:34:02 <c_wraith> yeah, just the usual error about a pattern match failure
01:34:16 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> Sometimes should be converted into "fail"
01:34:30 <c_wraith> If it's on the left side of <- in a do block, yes
01:34:47 <oats> %let Just x = (Nothing :: Maybe Int) in x
01:35:01 <oats> % let Just x = (Nothing :: Maybe Int) in x
01:35:01 <yahb2> <interactive>:159:5: warning: [GHC-53633] [-Woverlapping-patterns] ; Pattern match is redundant ; In a pattern binding: Just x = ... ; ; *** Exception: <interactive>:159:5-35: Non-exhausti...
01:35:13 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> but ye, irrefutable and lazy are connected.
01:37:06 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> Those seem to be really different things though, so it smells like some theoretical insight here could be made..
01:37:12 <int-e> oats: as recently as GHC 8.8.4, ghc would choke on `let i = 1#` (with or without bang)
01:37:25 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
01:38:10 <c_wraith> there are also things like GADT matching, where GHC just won't compile code that matches a GADT constructor in a let/where
01:38:11 <int-e> So up to that point, `case` was the only way to do this. `case` is also clearer about the order of operations.
01:38:49 <haskellbridge> <loonycyborg> case is one of few constructs that aren't syntactic sugar for something else.
01:39:13 <oats> % do { x <- [1..10]; if (x == 5) then fail "bleh" else pure (); pure x }
01:39:13 <yahb2> [1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10]
01:40:33 <oats> % do { Just x <- [Just 1, Nothing]; pure x }
01:40:33 <yahb2> [1]
01:41:05 <oats> wonder what that desugars to
01:41:31 <c_wraith> the report actually specifies that.
01:41:37 <int-e> @undo do { Just x <- [Just 1, Nothing]; pure x }
01:41:37 <lambdabot> [Just 1, Nothing] >>= \ a -> case a of { Just x -> pure x; _ -> fail ""}
01:41:45 <oats> int-e: I'm not super clear on #, that's an unboxed integer right?
01:42:25 <Axman6> and fail str = [] for []
01:42:34 <oats> @undo [x | Just x <- [Just 1, Nothing] ]
01:42:34 <lambdabot> concatMap (\ a -> case a of { Just x -> [x]; _ -> []}) [Just 1, Nothing]
01:42:43 <int-e> oats: Int (machine word sized), yes.
01:42:53 <oats> interesting, I thought list comprehensions were special in some way
01:42:56 <oats> don't remember who told me that
01:43:22 <c_wraith> You don't have to write pure. :)
01:43:53 <oats> ?
01:43:57 humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net)
01:44:16 <c_wraith> [ x | x <- foo ] as opposed to do { x <- foo ; pure x }
01:44:28 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
01:45:00 <oats> oh I was just trying out desugaring list comprehensions, because I thought I remembered someone telling me they were special to ghc in some way
01:45:37 <c_wraith> technically they are, but not in a way that influences semantics. There are some performance optimizations.
01:46:10 <c_wraith> and @undo doesn't give you what GHC does. It is an independent reimplementation of the rules from the Haskell report.
01:46:43 ChanServ sets mode +o geekosaur
01:46:51 <oats> gotcha, thanks
01:47:03 geekosaur sets mode -r
01:47:19 geekosaur sets mode -o geekosaur
01:48:33 × humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
01:50:54 × arandombit quits (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
01:51:31 arandombit joins (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:e018:2291:d659:5626)
01:51:32 × arandombit quits (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:e018:2291:d659:5626) (Changing host)
01:51:32 arandombit joins (~arandombi@user/arandombit)
01:54:29 foul_owl joins (~kerry@71-212-2-112.tukw.qwest.net)
01:55:28 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
02:00:04 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
02:10:58 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
02:13:54 × chromoblob quits (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
02:15:35 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:20:37 Lycurgus joins (~juan@user/Lycurgus)
02:24:25 jmcantrell_ is now known as jmcantrell
02:25:31 simplystuart joins (~simplystu@c-75-75-152-164.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
02:26:46 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
02:31:15 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:35:55 × Square3 quits (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:41:22 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
02:43:20 × omidmash quits (~omidmash@user/omidmash) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat)
02:45:10 × gmg quits (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Remote host closed the connection)
02:45:51 gmg joins (~user@user/gehmehgeh)
02:46:27 omidmash joins (~omidmash@user/omidmash)
02:46:46 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
02:47:28 × Lycurgus quits (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org ))
02:57:10 karenw joins (~karenw@user/karenw)
02:57:11 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
02:58:12 × karenw quits (~karenw@user/karenw) (Remote host closed the connection)
02:59:48 karenw joins (~karenw@user/karenw)
03:01:55 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:03:10 humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net)
03:03:26 × humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
03:13:02 merijn joins (~merijn@62.45.136.136)
03:13:03 × housemate quits (~housemate@202.7.247.155) (Quit: https://ineedsomeacidtocalmmedown.space/)
03:15:50 housemate joins (~housemate@202.7.247.155)
03:19:54 × merijn quits (~merijn@62.45.136.136) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
03:20:19 trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
03:23:43 × foul_owl quits (~kerry@71-212-2-112.tukw.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:31:01 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
03:35:27 DetourNe- joins (~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK)
03:35:52 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:36:11 synchrom1 joins (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:c18e:f5b0:111e:69da)
03:36:19 × acidjnk quits (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171903898692e61c742058.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
03:36:42 kdlv3 joins (~kdlv@user/kdlv)
03:38:16 gabiruh_ joins (~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br)
03:38:17 sajith joins (~sajith@user/sajith)
03:38:45 foul_owl joins (~kerry@94.156.149.97)
03:39:15 tomku|two joins (~tomku@user/tomku)
03:39:19 distopico_ joins (~cerdolibr@2001:4b98:dc2:41:216:3eff:fe6c:52a1)
03:39:22 carbolymer_ joins (~carbolyme@delirium.systems)
03:39:28 Fijxu_ joins (~Fijxu@user/fijxu)
03:39:30 ringo__ joins (~ringo@157.230.117.128)
03:39:54 Miroboru_ joins (~myrvoll@188.113.115.67)
03:40:07 × notzmv quits (~umar@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:40:07 × distopico quits (~cerdolibr@xvm-111-150.dc2.ghst.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:40:08 × ringo_ quits (~ringo@157.230.117.128) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:40:08 distopico_ is now known as distopico
03:40:08 × gabiruh quits (~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:40:08 × tomku quits (~tomku@user/tomku) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:40:08 × Miroboru quits (~myrvoll@188.113.115.67) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:40:08 × carbolymer quits (carbolymer@delirium.systems) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:40:08 × DetourNetworkUK quits (DetourNetw@user/DetourNetworkUK) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:40:09 × igemnace quits (~igemnace@user/igemnace) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:40:09 × Fijxu quits (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:40:09 × Unicorn_Princess quits (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:40:09 × sajith_ quits (~sajith@user/sajith) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:40:09 × kdlv quits (~kdlv@user/kdlv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:40:09 × synchromesh quits (~john@115.69.186.131) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:40:10 kdlv3 is now known as kdlv
03:40:10 DetourNe- is now known as DetourNetworkUK
03:40:57 Unicorn_Princess joins (~Unicorn_P@user/Unicorn-Princess/x-3540542)
03:41:15 × haskellbridge quits (~hackager@96.28.224.214) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
03:41:54 igemnace joins (~igemnace@user/igemnace)
03:44:18 haskellbridge joins (~hackager@96.28.224.214)
03:44:18 ChanServ sets mode +v haskellbridge
03:45:19 × tomku|two quits (~tomku@user/tomku) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:45:19 × jj quits (~apropos@node-1w7jr9pqogh9vahu1mvneock5.ipv6.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:45:19 × weary-traveler quits (~user@user/user363627) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:45:38 weary-traveler joins (~user@user/user363627)
03:45:40 CloneOfNone_ joins (~CloneOfNo@user/CloneOfNone)
03:45:56 kimiamania991 joins (~67ff9c12@user/kimiamania)
03:46:04 vetkat5 joins (~vetkat@user/vetkat)
03:46:04 emergence3 joins (~emergence@vm0.max-p.me)
03:46:34 gabiruh joins (~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br)
03:46:55 DetourNe- joins (~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK)
03:47:17 ycp_ joins (~znc@user/dragestil)
03:47:22 tomku joins (~tomku@user/tomku)
03:48:30 yin_ joins (~zero@user/zero)
03:48:32 larsivi2 joins (~larsivi@user/larsivi)
03:48:58 preflex_ joins (~preflex@user/mauke/bot/preflex)
03:49:14 omidmash4 joins (~omidmash@user/omidmash)
03:49:27 distopico_ joins (~cerdolibr@xvm-111-150.dc2.ghst.net)
03:49:29 hololeap_ joins (~quassel@user/hololeap)
03:49:33 Fijxu joins (~Fijxu@user/fijxu)
03:49:36 opqdonut1_ joins (opqdonut@pseudo.fixme.fi)
03:49:40 byorgey_ joins (~byorgey@155.138.238.211)
03:49:40 × byorgey_ quits (~byorgey@155.138.238.211) (Changing host)
03:49:40 byorgey_ joins (~byorgey@user/byorgey)
03:49:44 elarks_ joins (~elarks@user/yerrii)
03:50:14 finstern1s joins (~X@23.226.237.192)
03:50:27 fgarcia_ joins (~lei@user/fgarcia)
03:50:39 × jreicher quits (~user@user/jreicher) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:39 × vetkat quits (~vetkat@user/vetkat) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:39 × kimiamania99 quits (~67ff9c12@user/kimiamania) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:39 × hololeap quits (~quassel@user/hololeap) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:40 × Fijxu_ quits (~Fijxu@user/fijxu) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:40 × elarks quits (~elarks@user/yerrii) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:40 × preflex quits (~preflex@user/mauke/bot/preflex) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:40 × byorgey quits (~byorgey@user/byorgey) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:40 × opqdonut__ quits (opqdonut@pseudo.fixme.fi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:40 × DetourNetworkUK quits (~DetourNet@user/DetourNetworkUK) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:40 × larsivi quits (~larsivi@user/larsivi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:40 × yin quits (~zero@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:40 × CloneOfNone quits (~CloneOfNo@user/CloneOfNone) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:40 × emergence quits (emergence@vm0.max-p.me) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:40 × ycp quits (~znc@user/dragestil) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:40 × arandombit quits (~arandombi@user/arandombit) (Remote host closed the connection)
03:50:41 × omidmash quits (~omidmash@user/omidmash) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
03:50:41 × finsternis quits (~X@23.226.237.192) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:41 × fgarcia quits (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:41 × distopico quits (~cerdolibr@2001:4b98:dc2:41:216:3eff:fe6c:52a1) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
03:50:41 × machinedgod quits (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:41 × gabiruh_ quits (~gabiruh@vps19177.publiccloud.com.br) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:41 × stefan-__ quits (~m-yh2rcc@42dots.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:50:41 distopico_ is now known as distopico
03:50:41 omidmash4 is now known as omidmash
03:50:41 kimiamania991 is now known as kimiamania99
03:50:41 emergence3 is now known as emergence
03:50:41 ycp_ is now known as ycp
03:50:41 vetkat5 is now known as vetkat
03:50:41 yin_ is now known as yin
03:50:41 DetourNe- is now known as DetourNetworkUK
03:50:44 × fgarcia_ quits (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Max SendQ exceeded)
03:50:51 finstern1s is now known as finsternis
03:50:52 preflex_ is now known as preflex
03:50:57 machinedgod joins (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net)
03:51:02 arandombit joins (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:e018:2291:d659:5626)
03:51:03 × arandombit quits (~arandombi@2603:7000:4600:ffbe:e018:2291:d659:5626) (Changing host)
03:51:03 arandombit joins (~arandombi@user/arandombit)
03:51:18 jreicher joins (~user@user/jreicher)
03:51:20 fgarcia joins (~lei@user/fgarcia)
03:51:28 notzmv joins (~umar@user/notzmv)
03:51:40 × fgarcia quits (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Max SendQ exceeded)
03:52:15 fgarcia joins (~lei@user/fgarcia)
03:52:36 × fgarcia quits (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Max SendQ exceeded)
03:52:50 stefan-__ joins (~m-yh2rcc@42dots.de)
03:53:15 fgarcia joins (~lei@user/fgarcia)
03:53:52 × fgarcia quits (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Max SendQ exceeded)
03:54:29 fgarcia joins (~lei@user/fgarcia)
03:54:46 × fgarcia quits (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Max SendQ exceeded)
03:55:33 fgarcia joins (~lei@user/fgarcia)
03:56:07 × fgarcia quits (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Client Quit)
03:59:26 vetkat6 joins (~vetkat@user/vetkat)
04:00:07 × pabs3 quits (~pabs3@user/pabs3) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
04:00:18 jj joins (~apropos@node-1w7jr9pqogh9vahu1mvneock5.ipv6.telus.net)
04:03:08 × machinedgod quits (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
04:03:08 × notzmv quits (~umar@user/notzmv) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
04:03:09 × igemnace quits (~igemnace@user/igemnace) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
04:03:09 × vetkat quits (~vetkat@user/vetkat) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
04:03:09 × yin quits (~zero@user/zero) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
04:03:16 igemnace joins (~igemnace@user/igemnace)
04:03:33 × enikar quits (~enikar@user/enikar) (*.net *.split)
04:03:33 × elenril quits (~elenril@tutturu.khirnov.net) (*.net *.split)
04:03:45 chromoblob joins (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c)
04:03:58 yin joins (~zero@user/zero)
04:04:36 enikar joins (~enikar@user/enikar)
04:04:36 elenril joins (~elenril@tutturu.khirnov.net)
04:06:23 × lambdabot quits (~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
04:07:22 × vetkat6 quits (~vetkat@user/vetkat) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
04:07:53 machinedgod joins (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net)
04:08:01 lambdabot joins (~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot)
04:08:01 ChanServ sets mode +v lambdabot
04:09:15 pabs3 joins (~pabs3@user/pabs3)
04:18:19 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
04:21:30 gorignak joins (~gorignak@user/gorignak)
04:21:48 fgarcia joins (~lei@user/fgarcia)
04:22:55 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
04:26:36 × mange quits (~mange@user/mange) (Quit: Quittin' time!)
04:34:06 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
04:38:55 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
04:49:41 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
04:55:38 sp1ff joins (~user@2601:1c2:4701:900::327f)
04:59:43 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
05:01:15 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
05:06:03 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
05:17:02 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
05:20:13 xff0x joins (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp)
05:22:49 × chromoblob quits (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
05:23:28 chromoblob joins (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c)
05:24:04 × chromoblob quits (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
05:25:47 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
05:29:31 chromoblob joins (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c)
05:30:25 × haritz quits (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in)
05:34:21 × chromoblob quits (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
05:34:41 chromoblob joins (~chromoblo@user/chromob1ot1c)
05:39:28 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
05:43:58 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
05:50:58 × jmcantrell quits (~weechat@user/jmcantrell) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
05:56:20 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
06:00:46 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
06:03:28 michalz joins (~michalz@185.246.207.221)
06:12:10 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
06:16:51 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
06:21:36 takuan joins (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be)
06:30:14 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
06:36:35 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
06:36:57 annamalai joins (~annamalai@157.32.116.118)
06:43:41 AlexZenon joins (~alzenon@178.34.150.138)
06:51:37 × machinedgod quits (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
07:02:15 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
07:07:02 × weary-traveler quits (~user@user/user363627) (Remote host closed the connection)
07:07:03 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
07:12:15 sord937 joins (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937)
07:20:11 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
07:22:03 CloneOfNone joins (~CloneOfNo@user/CloneOfNone)
07:22:07 × CloneOfNone_ quits (~CloneOfNo@user/CloneOfNone) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
07:22:55 × annamalai quits (~annamalai@157.32.116.118) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
07:25:02 trickard_ is now known as trickard
07:26:36 annamalai joins (~annamalai@157.32.116.118)
07:27:16 × jreicher quits (~user@user/jreicher) (Quit: In transit)
07:29:11 × Sgeo quits (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
07:31:31 × annamalai quits (~annamalai@157.32.116.118) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
07:36:32 annamalai joins (~annamalai@157.32.133.19)
07:43:04 peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135)
07:44:02 × synchrom1 quits (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:c18e:f5b0:111e:69da) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
07:44:30 synchromesh joins (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:c18e:f5b0:111e:69da)
07:46:26 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> this is really interesting as an intellectual exercise
07:48:54 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> i'm currently trying to specify a program as a type, such that the type of this value can be generated by AI; the initial plan is to bootstrap itself, by creating a harness that can, given a spec file, be able to use AI to generate a program that satisfies the type&test constraints
07:49:37 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> ironically it feels like a free monad interpreter is the only sane way to actually type it, because i don't want the AI generating arbitrary effects
07:56:35 chele joins (~chele@user/chele)
08:02:48 × annamalai quits (~annamalai@157.32.133.19) (Remote host closed the connection)
08:03:13 annamalai joins (~annamalai@157.32.133.19)
08:05:22 tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:ad7d:11db:9b25:5b85)
08:06:15 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
08:06:44 wickedjargon joins (~user@64.114.24.74)
08:07:26 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
08:23:34 × tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:ad7d:11db:9b25:5b85) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
08:28:32 <merijn> Liamzee: That sounds like you're just trying to reinvent Epigram but with AI :p
08:29:40 kuribas joins (~user@2a02-1810-2825-6000-a122-c68a-b511-6946.ip6.access.telenet.be)
08:29:44 × tv quits (~tv@user/tv) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
08:36:23 × peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
08:38:56 × trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:39:09 trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
08:39:18 <hc> What's the stateless way to wish you all a happy new year?
08:41:57 × fgarcia quits (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Quit: Remote host closed the connection)
08:42:30 <Vq> There are none, wishes are treated as to be effectful (even when they are not).
08:43:00 tv joins (~tv@user/tv)
08:45:05 × emmanuelux quits (~emmanuelu@user/emmanuelux) (Remote host closed the connection)
08:48:40 <gentauro> hc: you are "broadcasting" hereby you are performing multiple effects ;)
08:51:13 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
08:53:24 × karenw quits (~karenw@user/karenw) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
08:55:56 __monty__ joins (~toonn@user/toonn)
08:59:21 <hc> Vq: haha :)
09:07:16 × Inline quits (~User@cgn-195-14-221-74.nc.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
09:12:30 × trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:12:43 trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
09:15:04 CiaoSen joins (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db)
09:16:03 Inline joins (~User@cgn-195-14-221-74.nc.de)
09:27:40 carbolymer_ is now known as carbolymer
09:28:46 trickard_ is now known as trickard
09:44:37 × trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
09:44:51 trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
09:50:04 acidjnk joins (~acidjnk@p200300d6e7171955d8ad2266737cd07c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
09:51:56 Tuplanolla joins (~Tuplanoll@88-114-88-95.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
09:56:15 × Inline quits (~User@cgn-195-14-221-74.nc.de) (Quit: KVIrc 5.2.6 Quasar http://www.kvirc.net/)
10:22:33 × xff0x quits (~xff0x@fsb6a9491c.tkyc517.ap.nuro.jp) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
10:26:56 × vidak quits (~vidak@2407:e400:7800:2c01:d0be:76f8:cc84:bd4a) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
10:34:14 humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net)
10:35:46 × takuan quits (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
10:36:58 takuan joins (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be)
10:38:10 GdeVolpi1 joins (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano)
10:38:14 × GdeVolpiano quits (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:38:59 × trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
10:39:12 trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
10:39:22 × humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
10:44:33 trickard_ is now known as trickard
10:47:34 × pavonia quits (~user@user/siracusa) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
10:47:46 × wickedjargon quits (~user@64.114.24.74) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
10:48:59 joelr joins (~joelr@user/jreicher)
10:49:09 haritz joins (~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8)
10:49:09 × haritz quits (~hrtz@2a01:4b00:bc2e:7000:d5af:a266:ca31:5ef8) (Changing host)
10:49:09 haritz joins (~hrtz@user/haritz)
10:49:22 × joelr quits (~joelr@user/jreicher) (Remote host closed the connection)
10:53:59 tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:99cd:cd7:ecf5:fac2)
10:54:42 joelr joins (~joelr@user/jreicher)
10:55:05 × joelr quits (~joelr@user/jreicher) (Remote host closed the connection)
10:56:43 pavonia joins (~user@user/siracusa)
10:57:22 × annamalai quits (~annamalai@157.32.133.19) (Remote host closed the connection)
10:57:28 × takuan quits (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
11:00:14 takuan joins (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be)
11:01:20 notzmv joins (~umar@user/notzmv)
11:05:45 jreicher joins (~user@user/jreicher)
11:07:24 × trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:07:40 trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
11:12:37 annamalai joins (~annamalai@2409:4042:2e0f:1c69::9eca:8006)
11:25:45 fp joins (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5)
11:48:19 vidak joins (~vidak@pa49-196-100-167.pa.vic.optusnet.com.au)
11:52:21 xff0x joins (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:bc91:b572:d371:f9fe)
11:52:22 × synchromesh quits (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:c18e:f5b0:111e:69da) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
11:53:12 synchromesh joins (~john@2406:5a00:2412:2c00:c18e:f5b0:111e:69da)
11:55:35 × vidak quits (~vidak@pa49-196-100-167.pa.vic.optusnet.com.au) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
12:18:19 karenw joins (~karenw@user/karenw)
12:24:01 × gmg quits (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
12:24:35 × trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
12:25:08 trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
12:26:27 gmg joins (~user@user/gehmehgeh)
12:31:19 wootehfoot joins (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
12:36:13 × housemate quits (~housemate@202.7.247.155) (Quit: https://ineedsomeacidtocalmmedown.space/)
12:38:01 × wootehfoot quits (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
12:38:09 trickard_ is now known as trickard
12:38:29 housemate joins (~housemate@202.7.247.155)
12:40:57 × trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
12:41:11 trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
12:43:00 Lycurgus joins (~juan@user/Lycurgus)
12:43:32 × xff0x quits (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:bc91:b572:d371:f9fe) (Quit: xff0x)
12:51:38 weary-traveler joins (~user@user/user363627)
12:57:53 merijn joins (~merijn@77.242.116.146)
13:28:53 × pavonia quits (~user@user/siracusa) (Quit: Bye!)
13:30:46 trickard_ is now known as trickard
13:34:15 humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net)
13:36:35 × housemate quits (~housemate@202.7.247.155) (Quit: https://ineedsomeacidtocalmmedown.space/)
13:37:23 housemate joins (~housemate@202.7.247.155)
13:38:55 × humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
13:41:46 khuswant joins (~khuswant@2401:4900:1c7b:58d8:1de6:3876:3239:c294)
13:42:12 × khuswant quits (~khuswant@2401:4900:1c7b:58d8:1de6:3876:3239:c294) (Client Quit)
13:45:13 × CiaoSen quits (~Jura@2a02:8071:64e1:da0:5a47:caff:fe78:33db) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
13:45:29 × Lycurgus quits (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org ))
13:46:13 × tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:99cd:cd7:ecf5:fac2) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
13:52:48 × GdeVolpi1 quits (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
13:53:40 GdeVolpiano joins (~GdeVolpia@user/GdeVolpiano)
13:57:12 × merijn quits (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
14:11:18 xff0x joins (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:e6e3:9c5d:7ccf:802)
14:11:43 merijn joins (~merijn@77.242.116.146)
14:14:39 × euandreh quits (~Thunderbi@2804:d59:8970:b900:ab52:d56:3299:431) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
14:18:54 × merijn quits (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
14:20:21 Lycurgus joins (~juan@user/Lycurgus)
14:21:59 merijn joins (~merijn@77.242.116.146)
14:24:19 × duckworld quits (~duckworld@user/duckworld) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
14:31:43 bggd joins (~bgg@user/bggd)
14:34:13 Square3 joins (~Square@user/square)
14:35:51 euandreh joins (~Thunderbi@2804:d59:8970:b900:ab52:d56:3299:431)
14:35:53 danza joins (~danza@user/danza)
14:37:14 duckworld joins (~duckworld@user/duckworld)
14:40:51 × Lycurgus quits (~juan@user/Lycurgus) (Quit: alsoknownas.renjuan.org ( juan@acm.org ))
14:47:04 ystael joins (~ystael@user/ystael)
14:47:19 vidak joins (~vidak@pa49-196-100-167.pa.vic.optusnet.com.au)
14:59:50 tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:99cd:cd7:ecf5:fac2)
15:29:51 Inline joins (~Inline@cgn-195-14-217-181.nc.de)
15:37:18 fgarcia joins (~lei@user/fgarcia)
15:37:43 × fgarcia quits (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Max SendQ exceeded)
15:38:17 fgarcia joins (~lei@user/fgarcia)
15:38:37 × karenw quits (~karenw@user/karenw) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
15:38:38 × fgarcia quits (~lei@user/fgarcia) (Max SendQ exceeded)
15:49:34 Typer_of_Terms joins (~Typer_of_@85.62.22.209)
15:50:44 Typer_of_Terms parts (~Typer_of_@85.62.22.209) ()
15:50:50 Typer_of_Terms joins (~Typer_of_@85.62.22.209)
15:51:01 × Inline quits (~Inline@cgn-195-14-217-181.nc.de) (Quit: KVIrc 5.2.6 Quasar http://www.kvirc.net/)
15:53:07 × fp quits (~Thunderbi@2001:708:20:1406::10c5) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
15:57:31 × merijn quits (~merijn@77.242.116.146) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
15:58:04 Typer_of_Terms parts (~Typer_of_@85.62.22.209) ()
16:01:24 Inline joins (~Inline@cgn-195-14-217-181.nc.de)
16:02:39 humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net)
16:05:56 × nschoe quits (~nschoe@2a01:e0a:8e:a190:7bce:a2a3:e37c:8054) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in)
16:06:13 nschoe joins (~nschoe@82-65-202-30.subs.proxad.net)
16:34:20 wootehfoot joins (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
16:43:47 × danza quits (~danza@user/danza) (Remote host closed the connection)
16:45:25 × humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
16:55:35 × chele quits (~chele@user/chele) (Remote host closed the connection)
17:03:42 Milan_Vanca joins (~milan@user/Milan-Vanca:32634)
17:08:25 × dyniec quits (~dyniec@dybiec.info) (Remote host closed the connection)
17:09:04 dyniec joins (~dyniec@dybiec.info)
17:10:10 <haskellbridge> <Liamzee> thanks for the suggestion merijn!
17:15:18 ouilemur joins (~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur)
17:17:53 <monochrom> Year -> (Happy, Year) :)
17:18:33 <monochrom> (Belated stateless way to say happy new year)
17:20:20 machinedgod joins (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net)
17:20:29 × gorignak quits (~gorignak@user/gorignak) (Quit: quit)
17:20:37 <monochrom> (I thought of that because lately I've been looking at GHC's control0# which is very explicity State# RealWorld -> (# a, State# RealWorld #) etc.)
17:20:45 gorignak joins (~gorignak@user/gorignak)
17:23:58 poscat joins (~poscat@user/poscat)
17:24:23 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
17:25:31 <haskellbridge> <doc> it's interesting how the IO state monad goes s -> (s,a) while the library state monad goes s -> (a,s)... the former looks better and works better with the (s,) functor but i've gotten more used to the latter due to exposure
17:27:31 × poscat0x04 quits (~poscat@user/poscat) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
17:30:55 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
17:34:00 Brumaire joins (~no@94.140.114.73)
17:42:24 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
17:47:43 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
17:54:50 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
18:00:19 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
18:02:54 kuribas` joins (~user@2a02-1810-2825-6000-d7bb-ca12-8f88-ad2d.ip6.access.telenet.be)
18:03:21 ljdarj joins (~Thunderbi@user/ljdarj)
18:03:52 × annamalai quits (~annamalai@2409:4042:2e0f:1c69::9eca:8006) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
18:04:06 annamalai joins (~annamalai@117.231.195.48)
18:04:25 × kuribas quits (~user@2a02-1810-2825-6000-a122-c68a-b511-6946.ip6.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
18:04:45 × poscat quits (~poscat@user/poscat) (Remote host closed the connection)
18:05:59 tzh joins (~tzh@c-76-115-131-146.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
18:07:18 × annamalai quits (~annamalai@117.231.195.48) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
18:07:50 poscat joins (~poscat@user/poscat)
18:08:43 × Miroboru_ quits (~myrvoll@188.113.115.67) (Quit: Lost terminal)
18:10:35 × __monty__ quits (~toonn@user/toonn) (Quit: leaving)
18:10:38 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
18:11:38 × tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:99cd:cd7:ecf5:fac2) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
18:11:59 × chexum quits (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
18:13:17 chexum joins (~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/chexum)
18:15:44 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
18:20:40 Psychotic1 joins (~Psychotic@2600:1007:b0ac:8256:21fd:5ab6:3ca:e9c9)
18:26:26 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
18:30:49 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
18:35:07 tromp joins (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:99cd:cd7:ecf5:fac2)
18:38:37 × gmg quits (~user@user/gehmehgeh) (Quit: Leaving)
18:39:15 × ystael quits (~ystael@user/ystael) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
18:41:49 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
18:46:25 ystael joins (~ystael@user/ystael)
18:46:38 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
18:48:34 × sord937 quits (~sord937@gateway/tor-sasl/sord937) (Quit: sord937)
18:51:13 × lbseale_ quits (~quassel@user/ep1ctetus) (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
18:55:51 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
18:56:25 × m_a_r_k quits (~m_a_r_k@archlinux/support/mark) (Remote host closed the connection)
18:56:41 m_a_r_k joins (~m_a_r_k@archlinux/support/mark)
19:02:15 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:07:24 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
19:07:47 × trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
19:08:01 trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
19:12:07 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
19:13:10 × jreicher quits (~user@user/jreicher) (Quit: In transit)
19:17:52 × trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
19:18:52 trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
19:23:10 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
19:28:14 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
19:29:18 × trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
19:29:38 trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
19:33:55 × Brumaire quits (~no@94.140.114.73) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:36:42 Lord_of_Life_ joins (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915)
19:37:31 × Lord_of_Life quits (~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
19:38:52 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
19:39:32 Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
19:43:35 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:46:04 Brumaire joins (~no@94.140.114.73)
19:47:09 pavonia joins (~user@user/siracusa)
19:53:30 hololeap_ is now known as hololeap
19:54:35 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
19:57:01 × ouilemur quits (~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur) (Quit: WeeChat 4.8.1)
20:01:02 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
20:10:38 ouilemur joins (~jgmerritt@user/ouilemur)
20:10:46 <Milan_Vanca> Hello guyz! Is offtopic harshly punished in this channel? :D
20:11:23 <monochrom> No. But #haskell-offtopic is better.
20:11:23 <geekosaur> depends on what else is going on, but #haskell-offtopic is preferred
20:12:16 <haskellbridge> <Morj> If only haskell-offtopic was bridged :'-(
20:12:30 <haskellbridge> <Morj> One day I will install an irc client on my work mac and you'll all see
20:12:39 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
20:12:54 <haskellbridge> <sm> Textual is a good one
20:13:20 <Milan_Vanca> From where are you bridged from guyz?
20:13:33 × Inline quits (~Inline@cgn-195-14-217-181.nc.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
20:14:01 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Haskell has a community in matrix: https://matrix.to/#/#haskell:matrix.org
20:14:02 <monochrom> telnet irc.libera.chat 6667
20:14:41 <geekosaur> that's not what's bridged, by their request. it's #haskell-irc:matrix.org instead
20:15:48 <Milan_Vanca> Ty for info :)
20:15:50 <geekosaur> I could bridge -offtopic but I suspect various denizens wouldn't like the idea much
20:17:13 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
20:22:09 × Pozyomka quits (~pyon@user/pyon) (Quit: brb)
20:22:29 Inline joins (~Inline@cgn-195-14-217-181.nc.de)
20:22:53 jreicher joins (~user@user/jreicher)
20:28:24 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
20:32:58 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
20:43:50 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
20:50:15 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
20:56:48 <jreicher> Morj: what's the holdup getting an IRC client? The IRC ecosystem is one of the simplest on the internet. Most things are easy to set up and work really well.
20:57:43 <monochrom> The networking effect implies that people want popular not simple.
20:57:51 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
20:58:40 <monochrom> If 90% of your friends use Facebook for example then you're very inclined to adopt Facebook even though it is the biggest mess in all aspects on the planet.
20:58:41 <geekosaur> on a mac, that probably means textual
20:58:49 <geekosaur> heh
20:59:11 <tomsmeding> jreicher: "yet another client to install"?
21:00:29 Miroboru joins (~myrvoll@188.113.115.67)
21:00:42 <monochrom> That reminds me. Perhaps most people's "simple" means "minimum number of apps compatible with most friends". This is known as max-flow-min-cut. >:)
21:01:57 × myme quits (~myme@2a01:799:d5e:5f00:349b:2339:b48a:61c6) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
21:02:34 <monochrom> This also explains adoption of programming languages. The minimum number of languages to learn such that...
21:02:35 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:02:39 myme joins (~myme@2a01:799:d5e:5f00:ff65:28ea:98bb:7f03)
21:03:26 <tomsmeding> ... such that you can annoy the most people by using the wrong language?
21:03:31 <monochrom> haha
21:05:29 <haskellbridge> <Morj> jreicher too much choice, combined with 95% of the choices being so dissappointing as to stop the whole process
21:05:44 <tomsmeding> what matrix client do you use?
21:06:04 <dolio> Yeah, isn't that exactly a description of matrix clients?
21:06:06 <haskellbridge> <Morj> A bad one, as they all are :D
21:06:10 <monochrom> IRC is so simple it can be fundamentally disapointing to young people to be honest.
21:06:13 <tomsmeding> dolio: that's why I was asking :D
21:06:38 <EvanR> monochrom, is this why if I want encryption on IRC I have to uses SSL xD (the most popular encryption but not simple)
21:06:41 <haskellbridge> <Morj> The simplicity of irc makes it worse because the voice in my head tells me to write my own
21:07:11 <tomsmeding> https://tools.suckless.org/ii/
21:07:13 <monochrom> e.g., no images, no code snippet, no PDF, no TeX, no emojis, no this, no that...
21:07:19 <EvanR> on the subject of writing your own IRC client ... you have to have encryption now
21:07:33 <EvanR> creating a big gap
21:07:56 <mauke> I do?
21:08:05 <EvanR> on libera isn't it required
21:08:13 <monochrom> I think it's s/SSL/TLS/ strictly speaking but yeah.
21:08:41 <tomsmeding> why did they rename that again
21:08:44 <monochrom> No it isn't required on libera.
21:08:50 <EvanR> oh good
21:09:04 <haskellbridge> <Morj> If it's tls then it's simple to use a library, if it's something on top of openssl routines it could be annoying to get right
21:09:06 <jreicher> All fair comments. I don't use the "popular" clients at all, but I forget that not everyone is as prepared to be unpopular. :p
21:09:26 <mauke> I was wondering how preflex was still online
21:09:28 <EvanR> if unpopular isn't too much work I'm all for it
21:09:45 <jreicher> It might make running for president a bit a tricky.
21:10:02 <EvanR> looks at the presidents approval rating
21:10:07 <EvanR> seems fine
21:10:32 <Milan_Vanca> Encryption on IRC is useless when channels are public either way.
21:10:44 <EvanR> big thonk on that one
21:10:52 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Authentication is useful still
21:10:56 <jreicher> Isn't it more for MitM?
21:11:01 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Exactly
21:11:03 <EvanR> this is false, because you don't want your chat to be altered along the way
21:11:09 trickard_ is now known as trickard
21:11:12 <mauke> I don't?
21:11:42 <Milan_Vanca> EvanR: hmm..
21:11:42 <EvanR> you keep man in the middling my pronouns
21:12:47 <EvanR> message integrity codes
21:13:15 <monochrom> IMO I don't need encryption or authentication for my IRC because other people don't have economic incentives to do MiTM on my IRC for example.
21:13:29 <EvanR> what was that giant attack on christmas
21:13:34 <EvanR> economic incentive?
21:13:37 <EvanR> xD
21:13:39 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
21:13:53 <EvanR> people will do shit for free
21:14:05 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Which attack?
21:14:19 <haskellbridge> <Morj> But in case of mitm you have to be in the middle, and that's hard for a script kiddie
21:14:23 <EvanR> a seemingly novel botnet relay
21:14:35 × marinelli quits (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Quit: marinelli)
21:14:43 <haskellbridge> <Morj> Oh. There was also an attack on matrix network around cristmas
21:14:44 <EvanR> fucking with us for no reason
21:14:52 <haskellbridge> <Morj> So they just hate open source huh
21:14:52 <mauke> it's called the "war on christmas"
21:14:57 <EvanR> lol
21:15:28 <monochrom> But lately I still switched to encryption and SASL because during that christmas attack, libera may blacklist some IP ranges but said it would let me through if I had SASL.
21:16:48 <jreicher> Did they allow plain SASL during that time? (I wasn't around)
21:16:58 <monochrom> I don't know.
21:17:12 <monochrom> But on normal days they do.
21:17:34 <monochrom> BTW I had SASL set up, my IP address was no longer blocked. :)
21:17:50 <jreicher> Oh yes, that's what I do, and obviously SASL is not offering extra security in that case. I use that mechanism more as a nickserv convenience.
21:18:00 <EvanR> I use plain sasl but never got kicked
21:18:15 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:18:51 <monochrom> Err, s/BTW/by the time/
21:18:55 <EvanR> client still says I'm using SSL
21:19:23 <monochrom> Perhaps your client turns on SSL behind your back?
21:19:42 <monochrom> This is known as MiTM security enhancement. >:)
21:29:24 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
21:30:14 × tromp quits (~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:99cd:cd7:ecf5:fac2) (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
21:33:55 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:34:21 Pozyomka joins (~pyon@user/pyon)
21:34:51 lockna_ joins (~lockna@193-81-168-132.hdsl.highway.telekom.at)
21:38:37 × lockna_ quits (~lockna@193-81-168-132.hdsl.highway.telekom.at) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
21:38:55 lockna_ joins (~lockna@193-81-168-132.hdsl.highway.telekom.at)
21:41:25 × housemate quits (~housemate@202.7.247.155) (Quit: https://ineedsomeacidtocalmmedown.space/)
21:43:55 × takuan quits (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:44:43 × lockna_ quits (~lockna@193-81-168-132.hdsl.highway.telekom.at) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
21:45:20 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
21:49:29 peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135)
21:49:58 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
21:58:52 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
22:03:11 Psychotic1_ joins (~Psychotic@2600:1007:b0ac:8256:21fd:5ab6:3ca:e9c9)
22:03:14 kuribas` parts (~user@2a02-1810-2825-6000-d7bb-ca12-8f88-ad2d.ip6.access.telenet.be) (ERC 5.5.0.29.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 29.3))
22:03:33 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
22:06:25 × Psychotic1 quits (~Psychotic@2600:1007:b0ac:8256:21fd:5ab6:3ca:e9c9) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:08:10 housemate joins (~housemate@202.7.247.155)
22:14:48 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
22:16:15 × peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:19:20 × Milan_Vanca quits (~milan@user/Milan-Vanca:32634) (Quit: WeeChat 4.5.2)
22:21:43 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
22:24:27 × xff0x quits (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:e6e3:9c5d:7ccf:802) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
22:27:52 humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net)
22:27:57 × humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
22:31:27 gmg joins (~user@user/gehmehgeh)
22:32:51 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
22:37:35 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
22:40:42 peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135)
22:48:40 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
22:51:25 × Psychotic1_ quits (~Psychotic@2600:1007:b0ac:8256:21fd:5ab6:3ca:e9c9) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:53:12 mange joins (~mange@user/mange)
22:53:19 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:56:28 × michalz quits (~michalz@185.246.207.221) (Remote host closed the connection)
22:59:52 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
23:01:38 ss4 joins (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot)
23:03:49 × peterbecich quits (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
23:04:52 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
23:05:13 × wootehfoot quits (~wootehfoo@user/wootehfoot) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
23:11:40 Sgeo joins (~Sgeo@user/sgeo)
23:13:56 LainIwakura joins (~LainIwaku@user/LainIwakura)
23:15:41 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
23:16:27 peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135)
23:20:16 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
23:20:59 × trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:21:13 trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
23:24:42 × LainIwakura quits (~LainIwaku@user/LainIwakura) (Quit: Client closed)
23:26:30 fgarcia joins (~lei@user/fgarcia)
23:31:28 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
23:36:15 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:43:55 jmcantrell_ joins (~weechat@user/jmcantrell)
23:44:01 jmcantrell_ is now known as jmcantrell
23:49:10 merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl)
23:49:27 × trickard_ quits (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:49:41 trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-51-98-47-163.wireline.com.au)
23:53:52 × merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
23:58:24 karenw joins (~karenw@user/karenw)

All times are in UTC on 2026-01-05.