Home liberachat/#haskell: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2026-01-25 (liberachat/#haskell)

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20:22:15 <[exa]> is there some sub-cryptographic hash library where the hashes would be somewhat stable between computers? Hashable is not super stable, and I don't want to throw SHA at a problem where crc32 is already an overkill
20:22:55 <[exa]> ( preferably with some tooling to easily hash bigger datatypes than strings )
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20:24:34 <Milan_Vanca> [exa]: By hash you mean something that produces Int, like quick hash to produce key for "HashMap"?
20:24:46 <[exa]> yeah
20:25:10 <[exa]> but essentially I want the hashmap to be out of memory and preferably shared between computers, where Hashable seems to fail
20:25:29 <geekosaur> yeh, Hashable's not designed for that use case in much of any sense
20:25:31 <tomsmeding> [exa]: perhaps search for something like siphash or xxhash?
20:25:36 <tomsmeding> or murmur
20:25:43 <tomsmeding> one of the hashes that have been given names
20:25:52 <[exa]> xxhash is ByteString -> Hash
20:26:07 <[exa]> I ideally want AnyStableHashable a => a -> Hash
20:26:32 <geekosaur> cabal has something internally for that, but it's not packaged. (uses Generic to hash ADTs)
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20:28:17 <tomsmeding> same in Accelerate :p
20:28:29 [exa] prepares ctrl+c
20:28:50 <tomsmeding> take the cabal one if you copy one of those, the accelerate thing is overengineered
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20:29:14 <tomsmeding> _and_ underengineered, it doesn't have many instances I think
20:29:15 <geekosaur> hm, actually the cabal one is probably unsuitable though: it doesn't hash values, it specifically hashes structure
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20:29:42 <tomsmeding> [exa]: roll it yourself? How many types do you need
20:29:54 <geekosaur> to ensure core data structures don't get changed unnecessarily and cause downstream breakage
20:30:53 <[exa]> okay good that sounds like time to roll it
20:30:59 <tomsmeding> and then package it up :)
20:31:17 <[exa]> nah I have like 10 types, that's 10 functions
20:31:23 <tomsmeding> there's actually a way to make the typeclass generic over the underlying hash implementation
20:31:28 <[exa]> if I package it, the generality is gonna kill it :D :D
20:32:21 <tomsmeding> class BaseHash base where { baseHash :: proxy base -> ByteString -> Int }; class BaseHash base => AnyHashable base a where { hash :: proxy base -> a -> Int }
20:32:39 <tomsmeding> the proxy is ugly but it works
20:33:56 <[exa]> hashable internally has some XXH3 or what
20:34:03 <[exa]> cool.
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21:07:48 <[exa]> btw kinda related to the above, does anyone recognize what kind of hash is this:
21:07:50 <[exa]> hsh x seed = seed `xor` (x * 2654435761 + 2654435769 + (shiftL seed 6) + (shiftR seed 2))
21:08:03 <[exa]> I found it in some very old source with a comment that it's very good indeed
21:09:57 <[exa]> oh wow the magic numbers actually googled
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21:11:44 <tomsmeding> does anyone have a recommendation for a package for filesystem events
21:13:06 <geekosaur> the usual is fsnotify, I think
21:13:12 <[exa]> tomsmeding: ghcid uses `fsnotify` and it was ok iirc
21:13:29 <tomsmeding> why am I not getting that when I search for "notify" on hackage
21:13:51 <geekosaur> tbh I use flora these days
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21:14:57 <tomsmeding> but thank you, that looks better than the 2018-era packages I was finding
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21:28:23 <[exa]> is there some philosophical reason for instance FromJSON () to always succeed? I'd kinda expect it should match a `null` or `[]` or something and scream if there's actual data
21:28:33 <[exa]> ref: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/aeson-2.2.3.0/docs/src/Data.Aeson.Types.FromJSON.html#line-1672
21:29:03 <tomsmeding> doesn't aeson always allow it if there's more stuff than expected?
21:29:21 <[exa]> not really, there's helpers to avoid that
21:32:03 <[exa]> like, it's somewhat surprising
21:32:27 <[exa]> I guess might be the case because of defaulting, if you write a parser and do `_ <- parseJSON`, it would select () by default
21:32:48 tomsmeding isn't sure, but that sounds like a bad reason
21:34:30 <tomsmeding> I might actually expect () to parse `null`, because there doesn't seem to be another way to specifically parse `null`? (Apart from parsing a `Value` and requiring it to be `Null`)
21:35:02 <[exa]> yeah well you can do `Null <- ...`
21:35:11 <[exa]> but we've got our cozy haskell null!!!
21:35:41 <tomsmeding> [exa]: let me invert the question: why are you parsing a ()?
21:36:04 geekosaur wonders if it's to play a bit more nicely in ghci with ExtendedDefaultRules or something like that
21:36:19 <[exa]> I wanted to nicely match if a value is empty, looked pretty much okay that way
21:37:09 <geekosaur> tbh that actually feels a bit wrong to me, since null is in-band in JSON
21:38:30 <[exa]> oh well look at that https://github.com/haskell/aeson/issues/788#issuecomment-939328524
21:38:58 <[exa]> the philosophical reason is: in js everything can be null
21:39:24 <monochrom> Does the empty object {} exist in JSON? I would be OK with that becoming () in Haskell. But then my idea still implies that parse errors still exist, e.g., parsing "5" to () should be an error.
21:40:35 <geekosaur> that's what I meant by "in-band"
21:40:50 <geekosaur> in Haskell it's a distinct type, not a distinct value inhabiting every type
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21:57:57 <tomsmeding> do I really have to reach into ghc-internal to get the UserInterrupt exception, for detecting if someone ^C'd me?
21:58:30 <tomsmeding> ah no I'm stupid, ignore, it's AsyncException in base
22:07:16 <monochrom> :)
22:07:58 <monochrom> But beware that it is only delivered to the main thread.
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22:14:00 <mjacob> What are possible applications of cycles in functional reactive programming? I know that many frameworks forbid it unless there is a delay in each cycle. But it is hard to me to think of an example where cycles are useful (with or without delay).
22:15:35 <tomsmeding> a clock? (disclaimer: have never used FRP)
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22:30:45 <mjacob> tomsmeding: Where is the cycle in this example?
22:31:05 <tomsmeding> the update to the time triggers an update to the time again, after a delay?
22:31:14 <tomsmeding> as I said, I dunno, maybe this is nonsense :)
22:32:35 <EvanR> early versions of FRP exploited recursive definitions (why you might be thinking of as cycles?) to implement some sort of state
22:33:07 <geekosaur> I wasn't using FRP but a PSQ for a simulation, and one of the events was a status report that triggered every so often in simulated time and rescheduled itself for later
22:33:08 <EvanR> but whether that counts as some sort of cycle, might depend on your concept of the underlying implementation
22:33:25 <EvanR> e.g. interpreting recursion doesn't necessarily need anything cyclic
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22:34:01 <EvanR> in arrow FRP you wouldn't use recursion but ArrowLoop
22:35:27 <geekosaur> plus most other events scheduled other events for later, since it was a population simulator so it was simulating various life events
22:38:36 <monochrom> People invent all sorts of "plain/simple English" words to avoid saying "recursion". :)
22:41:08 <monochrom> I once posed a homework question that defined infinite streams of Bool to represent timing diagrams of digital circuits, then had students code up a flip flop using a feedback loop. (One more "plain English" word for recursion!)
22:41:59 <tomsmeding> monochrom: conversely, functional programmers call everything recursion that we have more precise words for :)
22:42:05 <monochrom> (It had to go through a delay. I also had a "part (b)" in which the students had to show what would go wrong in Haskell if there were no delay.)
22:42:36 <monochrom> Oh yeah all of us should just say "least fixed point" and be done with it!
22:43:32 <monochrom> But we are worse than calling everything "recursion" aren't we? We call everything "function".
22:44:23 <monochrom> https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/fp-patterns-buildstufflt/41936137#13 >:)
22:44:26 <tomsmeding> our functions either recurse or traverse
22:58:41 <EvanR> oop, everything's an object. FP, everything's a function!
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