Logs on 2026-01-28 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:05:20 | <geekosaur> | right, we're doing a lot more than computers are |
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| 03:08:14 | <monochrom> | Brains are really high-power-consumption compared to other parts of the human body. But I guess you're comparing to electronic computers. |
| 03:08:36 | <monochrom> | (But you should s/energy/power/. kcal/day is a power unit, not an energy unit.) |
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| 05:48:59 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> i'm STILL trying to set up my AI chatbot by stripping out Vercel integration and moving to Supabase, and one thing I've finally realized is that TSX isn't better than Haskell. |
| 05:49:59 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> TS / TSX are still statement based languages, if you're doing webdev of any kind, you'd rather default to expressions and move to statements when necessary, aka prefer pure over do. |
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| 06:39:39 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> also, i changed my mind about abstraction cognitive overhead again; I'm looking at the TS, and they literally copied the JSON file verbatim. It's freaking 100 lines what could have been generated in 10 lines at most. This is not a complicated, full-featured app, it's just code for an AI chatbot, and it's like 18k lines of TS. This is so brain-damaged. |
| 06:39:52 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> chatbot server |
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| 07:10:38 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> steve yegge wrote that typescript is a bad language for AI code generation, it gives them too much rope |
| 07:11:12 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> he had better success with go |
| 07:17:56 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> i mean it's the Vercel starter kit. I take back all my whinging about Haskell, some more, I guess, Haskell has issues, but almost everything else is worse. I'm WTF-ing repeatedly at Vercel's refusal to abstract away repetitive code. |
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| 07:20:01 | <haskellbridge> | <alexfmpe> Can't boast about generating thousands of lines of code if you reuse code |
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| 07:20:39 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> rate of shipping features / rate of regressions seems like a better metric |
| 07:22:53 | <haskellbridge> | <alexfmpe> those don't have the *added value* of being able to get rid of those pesky extra programmers |
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| 07:25:35 | <haskellbridge> | <alexfmpe> There's a strong incentive to pitch productivity as "lowering costs you have" rather than "increase output you maybe can't sell" |
| 07:26:30 | <haskellbridge> | <alexfmpe> So a lot of stuff is portrayed as "no code" so as to give non tech decision makers the idea they can become more independent of devs |
| 07:27:03 | <haskellbridge> | <alexfmpe> We had outsystems, now we have prompts |
| 07:27:28 | <haskellbridge> | <alexfmpe> It ends up as a lot more code, and unmaintainable |
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| 07:40:37 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> AI psychosis basically comes from AI being overly agreeable and being grandiose in its response to satisfy RLHF. I wonder if, as much code ends up becoming AI generated, we'll end up having way more boilerplate and less abstraction in the name of "readability" from RLHF, which increases the SLOC productivity of AI. |
| 07:44:44 | <[exa]> | what's AI psychosis? |
| 07:45:06 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/urban-survival/202507/the-emerging-problem-of-ai-psychosis |
| 07:45:46 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> DeepSeek told me to publish bullshit fantasyland dreaming to Xi Jinping. |
| 07:45:51 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> I think AI psychosis is a pleonasm. |
| 07:46:53 | <int-e> | surely that's a common enough term that wikipedia knows it |
| 07:49:11 | <[exa]> | oh wow |
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| 08:03:30 | <davean> | readbility comes from abstraction :-p |
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| 08:06:01 | <haskellbridge> | <Liamzee> do the people handling RLHF know that? :-p |
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| 08:11:40 | <mauke> | https://pivot-to-ai.com/2026/01/22/steve-yegges-gas-town-vibe-coding-goes-crypto-scam/ |
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| 08:20:01 | <int-e> | Good one. (I had to remind myself that pivot-to-ai.com is a critic's site.) |
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| 11:17:26 | <gentauro> | reading a few messages here on AI learning (ChatGPT). What holds haskellers back from creating a "sound and safe" bot? |
| 11:17:38 | <gentauro> | I mean, the bots running here are "pretty" bullet-proof |
| 11:18:29 | <gentauro> | and since most AI-tools now are becoming TUI (but running JS or Go) |
| 11:18:37 | <gentauro> | just a thought |
| 11:19:10 | <__monty__> | What does sound and safe mean for an IRC bot? |
| 11:21:49 | <gentauro> | __monty__: "Composable Memory Transactions" -> http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/stm/stm.pdf (look for "launching missiles") ;) |
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| 11:22:49 | <gentauro> | I mean, we are the ones that can limit branches of code with `rio` -> https://uniprocess.org/effects.html |
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| 11:24:17 | <gentauro> | however, I'm not gonna make such a tool (yeah, I made `uniprocess` ages ago) mostly cos I'm any AI. Not cos it isn't usefull (Terence Tao) but because it's used by so many to generate an insane amount of AI-workslop (look it up Harvard Business Review) |
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| 11:24:54 | <gentauro> | "I'm any AI" -> "I'm anti AI" |
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| 11:29:31 | <danza> | good luck with that |
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| 11:49:24 | <gentauro> | speaking of bots, I saw somebody that had created an AI-bot, with access to kill processes. They called the AI-bot "RussAIn roulette" xD |
| 11:50:13 | <gentauro> | «What a time to be alive» |
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| 16:41:13 | <Milan_Vanca> | Good evening guyz, which GHC do you use for serious projects? I intend to use 9.14.1 is it good idea? |
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| 17:00:27 | <geekosaur> | personally, I skip .1 releases (and alternate releases, but that's because ghc revs too often imo) |
| 17:01:37 | <geekosaur> | I'm on 9.10.3 currently and will move to 9.14.2 after it comes out |
| 17:02:15 | <geekosaur> | for production, I think ghcup's recommended is generally a good choice: doesn't make you upgrade every couple months, is widely supported |
| 17:06:12 | <dolio> | Also, if you're the type who wants a blessed snapshot of packages that doesn't change very fast, the only such 'long term' lists are going to be behind 9.14 for a while, I think. |
| 17:06:56 | <dolio> | We do that at work, and we're just now moving from 9.6 to 9.10. |
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| 17:08:41 | <dolio> | Unless you're using some new feature of 9.14, though, I don't see why it'd matter much. |
| 17:09:06 | <geekosaur> | one of those new features is the new debugger… |
| 17:12:18 | <dolio> | The one that intrigues me is specializing to arguments. |
| 17:17:44 | <Googulator> | 9.10 can compile 9.14, right? |
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| 17:19:49 | <dolio> | I think so. |
| 17:20:05 | <Milan_Vanca> | New versions might bring usefull features. It just depends if they are rushed or not. I don't like npm tempo of breaking changes, you sneeze and half your packages are broken. On the other hand staying on java7 or netframework in 202X is also nuts. |
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| 17:42:04 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> g'day all. I like 9.12.2 for newish-but-not-bleeding-edge. (Avoid 9.12.3) |
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| 17:46:52 | <Milan_Vanca> | And then there is master branch :D |
| 17:47:32 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> it's true that a better debugger is a major feature of 9.14 |
| 17:47:56 | <EvanR> | better debugger!? |
| 17:48:23 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> https://well-typed.github.io/haskell-debugger/ |
| 17:48:41 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> it's not a feature of ghc 9.14, but it requires ghc 9.14 |
| 17:49:37 | <EvanR> | this I gotta see.. at some point |
| 17:50:21 | <EvanR> | is this right... supports neovim and not regular vim |
| 17:50:42 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> it's great, we should all hammer on it and push it forward |
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| 19:12:54 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: you can be the one who writes a DAP plugin for vim :) |
| 19:13:15 | <tomsmeding> | (haven't used DAP at all yet, let alone the new debugger support, but I look forward to doing so) |
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| 19:51:22 | Lord_of_Life_ | is now known as Lord_of_Life |
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| 21:17:40 | × | Milan_Vanca quits (~milan@user/Milan-Vanca:32634) (Quit: WeeChat 4.7.2) |
| 21:18:41 | × | michalz quits (~michalz@185.246.207.215) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 21:20:19 | <jreicher> | I recently tried DAP in Emacs (for Java). Only kind of works. :( Unless it's PEBKAC. Very possible. |
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| 22:29:17 | × | bwu25 quits (~benwu25@71-212-83-35.tukw.qwest.net) (Changing host) |
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| 22:40:43 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:41:55 | × | sklm quits (~sklm___@2a00:23c7:a8ba:4a01:9eb3:1132:67b2:289f) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
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| 22:58:38 | jmcantrell_ | is now known as jmcantrell |
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| 23:36:28 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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All times are in UTC on 2026-01-28.