Logs on 2026-02-08 (liberachat/#haskell)
| 00:07:08 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:11:03 | × | KindFoxo quits (~KindFoxo@user/KindoFoxo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:11:52 | → | KindFoxo joins (~KindFoxo@user/KindoFoxo) |
| 00:12:01 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 00:22:21 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@62.45.136.136) |
| 00:26:34 | Catty | is now known as kitties |
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| 00:38:01 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 00:54:05 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 00:56:51 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
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| 01:09:51 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 01:14:27 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 01:14:36 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 01:14:50 | → | trickard_ joins (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) |
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| 01:25:38 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
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| 01:27:18 | omidmash7 | is now known as omidmash |
| 01:30:21 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 01:37:03 | × | KindFoxo quits (~KindFoxo@user/KindoFoxo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 02:04:23 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 02:04:27 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
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| 02:25:28 | → | Inline joins (~User@2a02:908:1246:26e0:8c1d:56bb:e491:7d2d) |
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| 02:34:14 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
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| 02:52:10 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 02:58:52 | × | omnifunctor quits (~omnifunct@user/semifunctor) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 03:29:29 | → | somemathguy joins (~somemathg@user/somemathguy) |
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| 04:34:08 | × | omnifunctor quits (~omnifunct@user/semifunctor) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 05:46:48 | × | marinelli quits (~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/marinelli) (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 05:59:43 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 06:08:32 | × | machinedgod quits (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 06:10:42 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 06:13:28 | trickard_ | is now known as trickard |
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| 07:28:44 | × | Enrico63 quits (~Enrico63@host-79-27-153-69.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Client Quit) |
| 07:30:10 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
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| 07:53:43 | × | divlamir quits (~divlamir@user/divlamir) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 08:01:02 | × | tt12316070 quits (~tt1231@2603:6010:8700:4a81:a4f6:acff:fe95:3803) (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat) |
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| 08:07:35 | × | karenw quits (~karenw@user/karenw) (Quit: Deep into that darkness peering...) |
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| 10:18:27 | × | trickard quits (~trickard@cpe-61-98-47-163.wireline.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 13:19:00 | <gentauro> | mesaoptimizer: the link to the CCC actually has the first issue stating it can't even compile "Hello, World". Perhaps not a good idea to have anything in the liking creating a AHC (Agent Haskell Compiler) anytime soon. |
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| 17:06:04 | <EvanR> | gentauro, closed cartesian comics? |
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| 18:22:24 | ski | was thinking category |
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| 18:31:50 | <tomsmeding> | chaos computer club? |
| 18:35:07 | <Rembane> | +1 |
| 18:35:14 | <Rembane> | Or chaos computer congress |
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| 18:41:38 | <probie> | It's the CNU C Compiler |
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| 18:42:17 | <haskellbridge> | <ijouw> There is also the chaos communication camp |
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| 20:03:54 | <mesaoptimizer> | I read that as concentration camp but I have been thinking about Gentzen a lot lately |
| 20:04:21 | <mesaoptimizer> | also W40K because "chaos" |
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| 20:30:18 | <chromoblob> | data Timed a = Later (Timed a) | Now (a Timed) |
| 20:30:18 | <chromoblob> | data List1 a t = Empty1 | Cons1 (t a) (t (List1 a)) |
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| 20:30:26 | <chromoblob> | this can't work, right? |
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| 20:31:13 | <L29Ah> | right |
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| 20:53:18 | tomsmeding | is not sure what "this" refers to |
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| 21:01:31 | <chromoblob> | tomsmeding: the definitions |
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| 21:03:02 | <Rembane> | chromoblob: Have you tried them in a Haskell compiler? |
| 21:03:55 | <chromoblob> | something like "data Timed a = Later (Timed a) | Now a" and "data ListTimed a = EmptyTimed | ConsTimed (Timed a) (Timed (ListTimed a))" is intended |
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| 21:04:31 | <chromoblob> | Rembane: no, i doubt it will work because i can see that Timed would have an infinite kind |
| 21:04:54 | <tomsmeding> | % data Timed a = Later (Timed a) | Now (a Timed) |
| 21:04:54 | <yahb2> | <interactive>:7:41: error: [GHC-27958] ; • Expected kind ‘k0’, but ‘Timed’ has kind ‘(k0 -> *) -> *’ ; • In the first argument of ‘a’, namely ‘Timed’ ; In the type ‘(a Timed)’ ; ... |
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| 21:22:14 | <EvanR> | it's kind of like how f f is impossible as is |
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| 21:22:58 | <EvanR> | you'd need some kind of newtype wrapper to mediate |
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| 21:42:26 | <probie> | You don't need a newtype wrapper to have `f f` |
| 21:42:48 | <probie> | % data Foo (f :: forall k . k -> k) = Foo (f f ()) |
| 21:42:48 | <yahb2> | <no output> |
| 21:43:32 | <EvanR> | lol |
| 21:43:43 | <EvanR> | i.e. f (f ()) |
| 21:46:27 | <EvanR> | postgresql documentation might be outdated here... saying that converting database reals to Float "goes through attoparsec which sacrifices accuracy for speed. Use Scientific if you want correct" |
| 21:46:39 | <EvanR> | meanwhile attoparsec's float parser uses scientific |
| 21:47:15 | <EvanR> | (and then... to get to the finish line... fromRational . toRational) |
| 21:47:41 | <EvanR> | I was curious about this alleged "move fast break things" float parser in attoparsec |
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| 21:52:15 | <yin> | i'm taking darcs for a spin. any advice? |
| 21:53:29 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: historical version of attoparsec seem to have such a thing |
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| 21:55:52 | <tomsmeding> | EvanR: seems attoparsec-0.12.0.0 is the first that just calls to Scientific |
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| 22:02:54 | <haskellbridge> | <ijouw> yin: Keep this diagram in mind https://darcs.net/Using/Model. Don't forget to >darcs add< your source files. |
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| 22:10:13 | <mauke> | keep backup copies of everything because darcs likes to corrupt repositories |
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| 22:19:13 | <yin> | mauke: i'm using darcs in tandem with git :) |
| 22:20:13 | <yin> | so it's not a reliable version control system? |
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| 22:21:26 | <mauke> | it wasn't when I stopped using it, but that was like 15 years ago :-) |
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| 22:22:51 | <mauke> | I had a local repo that would just pull in updates from a remote source (and act as a source for other local repositories), but after a while darcs would start complaining about unresolved conflicts in that repo |
| 22:23:17 | <mauke> | which made no sense because I never edited (let alone committed) anything in there |
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| 22:29:16 | <geekosaur> | fwiw #darcs is a thing (and you can ask in there if you have issues) (also bridged to #darcs:matrix.org) |
| 22:29:38 | <yin> | geekosaur: great, thanks! |
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| 22:35:28 | <EvanR> | was darcs using acid-state |
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| 22:46:36 | <EvanR> | which one sucks less: parser (potentially) returns a Command, then a big case dispatches Command to run the specific command IO code |
| 22:46:55 | <EvanR> | or parser (potentially) just returns the IO action that would eventually be run instead |
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| 22:49:04 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> "darcs likes to corrupt repositories" ? I wouldn't say that |
| 22:49:38 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> no, it doesn't use acid-state EvanR |
| 22:50:19 | <EvanR> | 👍 |
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| 22:55:16 | <geekosaur> | the first is what's usually done, in some fashion (e.g. free monad instead of a traditional ADT); also, the second could be considered a variety of the first. but also smacks of "parse, don't validate" violation to me? |
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| 23:01:36 | <EvanR> | returning an IO action is basically free monad if you think IO is like a huge free monad |
| 23:02:19 | <EvanR> | if the semantic value is a command to be executed... then the command data type or the command action itself could both be considered that |
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| 23:03:49 | <EvanR> | parse don't validate violation seems to be a different situation, where you validate something and then later run another parser on it |
| 23:04:03 | <EvanR> | the original data |
| 23:07:02 | <chromoblob> | why isn't IO a free monad actually? |
| 23:07:31 | <ncf> | can't pattern match on it |
| 23:07:36 | <EvanR> | performance, and or "we didn't think of it" |
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| 23:10:14 | <mauke> | is this that "final tagless" thing |
| 23:10:16 | <chromoblob> | ncf: case putStr "123" of PutStr "123" -> ... |
| 23:10:47 | <ncf> | oh you mean from a design perspective |
| 23:11:27 | <EvanR> | the IO system predates free monads being popularized by the blogosphere |
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| 23:24:24 | <geekosaur> | also I think it doesn't extend nicely to threads? |
| 23:26:55 | <dolio> | There's multiple problems with it. What about FFI? |
| 23:27:18 | <geekosaur> | that too, yes |
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| 23:27:44 | <geekosaur> | although I can think of ways to make it work, especially given that FFI already doesn't really handle varargs |
| 23:29:33 | <dolio> | I'm sure there are ways to do it, but the question is why you would, when being a free monad is likely not valuable at all. |
| 23:29:56 | <dolio> | Most likely the opposite. |
| 23:30:49 | <dolio> | IO specifically, that is. |
| 23:32:11 | <geekosaur> | tbh I've always considered that approach to be more useful conceptually than implementationally |
| 23:33:34 | <dolio> | If you're going to write multiple interpreters for one, then it might be worth it. But you want IO to be as low overhead as possible, bascially. |
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All times are in UTC on 2026-02-08.