Logs on 2026-02-17 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 00:52:59 | → | polykernel_ joins (~polykerne@user/polykernel) |
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| 00:54:45 | polykernel_ | is now known as polykernel |
| 00:59:32 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 01:00:46 | → | polykernel_ joins (~polykerne@user/polykernel) |
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| 01:03:14 | polykernel_ | is now known as polykernel |
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| 01:07:24 | polykernel_ | is now known as polykernel |
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| 01:22:19 | Googulator31 | is now known as Googulator |
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| 05:24:44 | ChanServ | sets mode +v lambdabot |
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| 13:59:26 | <kaol> | I came up with a fun function: bitraverse <*> traverse. For manipulating that bothersome Either a (b,a). |
| 14:04:54 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> Since when is Bitraversable in base |
| 14:04:54 | <haskellbridge> | <Morj> It says 4.10.0.0 on the hackage, but what year is that |
| 14:07:56 | <kaol> | Since GHC 8.2, released in 2017. |
| 14:18:22 | <hadronized> | anyone has enough ATS knowledge and/or Linear Haskell? |
| 14:18:51 | <hadronized> | I’m designing my own language and I’m struggling to understand a couple ideas regarding linear proof transformationsd with regards to container type |
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| 15:54:11 | <[exa]> | @mad: underrated view |
| 15:54:11 | <lambdabot> | Unknown command, try @list |
| 15:54:53 | <[exa]> | hadronized: anything specific? (this isn't a very good channel for a long writeup but perhaps people will point you in the right direction) |
| 16:00:26 | <tomsmeding> | Morj: base versions are listed in `ghcup list -t ghc` (or `ghcup tui`) |
| 16:00:38 | <tomsmeding> | also https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary/libraries/version-history |
| 16:01:18 | <hadronized> | I asked on proglangdesign, to no avail [exa] |
| 16:01:55 | <tomsmeding> | there are some people here familiar with Linear Haskell (such as me, kindof), but I don't think you'll find much ATS here |
| 16:02:34 | <hadronized> | my question is basically about how proofs work when moving items in containers; for instance, consider a dynamic array (dynarr) type which takes pointers to stuff, like ptr(i32); my language supports existentials, so {l: addr} ptr(i32) l are pointers pointing to some l address, we just do not which; I use that syntax to introduce allocation proofs, to prove a pointer comes from a malloc for |
| 16:02:36 | <hadronized> | instance |
| 16:02:36 | <tomsmeding> | hadronized: if more long-form, you could ask here https://langdev.stackexchange.com/ |
| 16:02:49 | <hadronized> | with {l: addr} ptr(i32) l | alloc(i32, l) |
| 16:03:48 | <hadronized> | if I store that in a dynamic array, I get dynarr({l: addr} ptr(i32) l | alloc(i32, l)), which by definition, only allows to know that the existential pair can be used, but you cannot for instance transformed an alloc linear proof into a deref proof by doing a get(3) -> option(ptr(i32) | deref) for instacne |
| 16:03:50 | <hadronized> | instance* |
| 16:04:10 | <tomsmeding> | it's unclear to me what `{l: addr} ptr(i32) l` means; presumably `∃(l : addr).`, but what's the juxtaposition? |
| 16:04:21 | <hadronized> | so I guess I would instead need to store the items as dynarr(ptr(i32)), and unsafely generate the deref proofs |
| 16:04:29 | <hadronized> | it does tomsmeding |
| 16:04:35 | <hadronized> | the juxtaposition is the same as ATS |
| 16:04:47 | tomsmeding | has no clue about ATS |
| 16:05:02 | <hadronized> | it’s a way to state that the proof is only at the static level |
| 16:05:13 | <hadronized> | you can imagine that as a tuple where the right side never appears at runtime |
| 16:06:05 | <hadronized> | so yes, it tells that we have a pointer indexed by l: addr, and the alloc(i32, l) means that we have the proof that there is an allocation of type i32 at that existential l address |
| 16:06:25 | tomsmeding | . o O ( agda syntax: ∃[ l ∈ addr ] (ptr i32 × @0 l), or something ) |
| 16:07:30 | <tomsmeding> | is that `|` a sum type? |
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| 18:54:15 | <jgee242> | Hi #haskell, I'm taking the Haskell MOOC on mooc.fi to learn Haskell. Just wanted to give a shout out to the channel for fun. |
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| 19:11:51 | <[exa]> | jgee242: fun! |
| 19:11:53 | <[exa]> | oh they left |
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| 19:13:46 | <Clint> | fun was accomplished by all |
| 19:14:24 | <[exa]> | \o/ |
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| 20:31:21 | <larsivi> | Prior to starting to learn Haskell (pretty much first FP language I've touched in any significant manner after programming for over 30 years), and still, I did/do a lot of Typescript (some React, but mostly Node on the server). There I recently got into reading about effect systems (in particular effect-ts). But I then figured I should actually learn a FP lang, and so came to Haskell. I think I |
| 20:31:23 | <larsivi> | thought that effects was almost an inherent part of functional programming, so was kinda surprised when I saw that there appear to be some competition (and that far from all use effect systems). Anyway, I think I like Bluefin? Gotta learn quite a bit more though. |
| 20:35:08 | <larsivi> | Also, I recently came over a project that used Lenses and that recommended Optics. I suppose I am on very thin water now, but are optics and effects competitors? Does it make sense to use together? Are there any optics vs effect comparisons out there? (If such a comparison makes sense ...) |
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| 20:37:37 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I think optics and effects are usually discussed separately and considered orthogonal, but probably there's some deep linkage we'll hear about shortly |
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| 20:38:07 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> I'm using "optics" in the generic sense (lens, microlens, optics...) |
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| 20:39:53 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> yes, effect systems are relatively new and evolving, and not something routinely used by all haskellers (unless you count monads generally, like IO, as a kind of effect system) |
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| 20:48:12 | <larsivi> | thanks! |
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| 23:14:00 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:15:11 | → | Googulator84 joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-499d-6164-ec92-51a0-9cde.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 23:15:14 | × | Googulator10 quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-499d-6164-ec92-51a0-9cde.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 23:17:58 | → | Sgeo joins (~Sgeo@user/sgeo) |
| 23:18:39 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 23:26:39 | × | mud quits (~mud@user/kadoban) (Quit: quit) |
| 23:27:22 | → | machinedgod joins (~machinedg@d75-159-126-101.abhsia.telus.net) |
| 23:29:29 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:32:23 | → | n0w0n joins (~john@cpc157419-sotn14-2-0-cust964.15-1.cable.virginm.net) |
| 23:34:43 | → | gmg joins (~user@user/gehmehgeh) |
| 23:34:55 | → | mud joins (~mud@user/kadoban) |
| 23:36:23 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 23:36:56 | → | Square2 joins (~Square4@user/square) |
| 23:39:11 | × | Square3 quits (~Square@user/square) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 23:45:17 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:47:25 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:48:14 | × | xff0x quits (~xff0x@2405:6580:b080:900:c250:8a96:6b0e:a009) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 23:49:00 | × | malte quits (~malte@mal.tc) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 23:51:18 | → | peterbecich joins (~Thunderbi@71.84.33.135) |
| 23:51:18 | × | Axman6 quits (~Axman6@user/axman6) (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:51:24 | → | malte joins (~malte@mal.tc) |
| 23:51:53 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 23:56:33 | → | humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) |
| 23:56:34 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Client Quit) |
| 23:56:51 | → | humasect joins (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) |
All times are in UTC on 2026-02-17.