Logs on 2026-03-17 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 11:07:57 | <tomsmeding> | to the person scraping ircbrowse using claudebot: please don't |
| 11:08:32 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> :( |
| 11:08:45 | <tomsmeding> | (they're very efficiently and quickly scraping 403s now) |
| 11:12:08 | <tomsmeding> | ircbrowse is not written for being scraped; soon (tm) I will rewrite or replace ircbrowse with something that just hosts static webpages or something |
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| 11:31:05 | <tomsmeding> | I wonder if I should tell Claude to build that, just for irony's sake |
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| 11:49:08 | <mesaoptimizer> | tomsmeding: have you considered using cloudflare |
| 11:49:47 | <mesaoptimizer> | tomsmeding: at this point, you must realize that most bad actors are unlikely to be reading this chat, and perhaps they are engaging in a vast amount of data collection |
| 11:50:06 | <mesaoptimizer> | but it is funny that they are scraping 403s |
| 11:51:20 | <dminuoso> | -1 to using cloudflare. |
| 11:52:04 | <dminuoso> | That said, I think "asking someone to not do something" on the internet has become a largely silly task in 2026. |
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| 12:07:44 | <Leary> | It was already silly a few decades ago. |
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| 13:05:28 | <tomsmeding> | fair |
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| 13:43:00 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Yeah no cloudflare please. If you must put iocaine in from of it. It can be considered in a non-invasive mode unlike anubis, in fact thats the default for iocaine. |
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| 13:43:28 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> My git server is protected using iocaine and you wouldnt even know if i didnt tell you https://git.redalder.org/ |
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| 13:58:38 | <mesaoptimizer> | "Unlike measures that seek to detect and block bots, iocaine is a last-ditch defense for after they have already made it to the web site. The request looks like a human, and the server is going to have to spend some resources responding to it. There's still one attribute that separates bots from human readers, however: reading comprehension. A human presented with a page of obvious nonsense might |
| 13:58:40 | <mesaoptimizer> | click one or two links in confusion, but they're extremely unlikely to try to download an endless torrent of nonsense instead of wandering off to do something better with their time. A bot, on the other hand, that is merely scanning for links and archiving text for later processing, will happily continue to download nonsense until it hits some kind of limit." https://lwn.net/Articles/1056953/ how |
| 13:58:42 | <mesaoptimizer> | is this going to help reduce the load on his server? |
| 14:02:35 | <int-e> | I guess it's this: "it uses a hidden Markov model to quickly generate a random stream of words," -- emphasis on quickly; not using much CPU and not doing any IO intensive things like database queries. |
| 14:05:14 | <mesaoptimizer> | I see, if the bottleneck is not network requests and responses, then load can be moved away from the application itself |
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| 14:25:41 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Yeah it generates the markov chain tar pit once at startup and then feeds it to the bots in the quickest way possible |
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| 17:17:34 | <thresh3> | Has anyone used algebraic effects in production Haskell? Curious how they compare to mtl-style monad transformers in practice. |
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| 17:43:34 | <newmind> | if they would've stuck around, yes, i have |
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| 17:54:15 | <mesaoptimizer> | I'm attempting to replicate a research artifact that uses python and shell scripts as part of its multi-step process of creating stateful partial artifacts. I am considering using Haskell instead of python. I'm considering between Shake and Shelly. `typed-process` made me wary due to its complexity and because it made me realized how terribly designed the `process` library is. |
| 17:55:49 | <mesaoptimizer> | Shake would allow determinstic checking of previous artifacts, and an incremental build of new replicated artifacts with automatic checkpointing in each 'phase' of the process. Shelley however seems like a more straightforward 'shell script' / 'python script' replacement. |
| 17:56:17 | <mesaoptimizer> | Here's Shake: https://shakebuild.com/ and here's Shelly: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/shelly for context. |
| 17:56:55 | <geekosaur> | shake is probably best thought of as a make replacement, not a shell script replacement |
| 17:57:48 | <geekosaur> | if you want to run stuff, shelly (or turtle or shh) is probably what you want. if complex dependencies is the big issue, shake is probably what you want |
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| 18:00:32 | <mesaoptimizer> | I think I'll look into shake more, simply because this is a multi-step pipeline of running scripts on partially processed versions of the final research artifact |
| 18:01:05 | <mesaoptimizer> | it seems to call for idempotence and crash-resilience, imo. But if I feel like shake is too complex, I'll start off with shelly. |
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| 18:05:55 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> shake is excellent for dependencies, and also its shell EDSL is excellent (I don't know shelly enough to compare it) |
| 18:07:37 | <mesaoptimizer> | useful to know, thank you |
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| 21:59:47 | → | j1n37 joins (~j1n37@user/j1n37) |
| 21:59:52 | × | j1n37 quits (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:03:19 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 22:07:50 | → | j1n37 joins (~j1n37@user/j1n37) |
| 22:07:50 | × | j1n37 quits (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:07:57 | × | takuan quits (~takuan@d8D86B9E9.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 22:08:21 | → | v0id_7 joins (~v0id_7@user/v0id-7:62772) |
| 22:12:14 | → | j1n37 joins (~j1n37@user/j1n37) |
| 22:12:14 | × | j1n37 quits (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 22:17:03 | → | j1n37 joins (~j1n37@user/j1n37) |
| 22:17:07 | × | j1n37 quits (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:18:50 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 22:22:22 | → | j1n37 joins (~j1n37@user/j1n37) |
| 22:22:26 | × | j1n37 quits (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:22:42 | × | Ranhir quits (~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
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| 22:27:16 | → | j1n37 joins (~j1n37@user/j1n37) |
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| 22:31:39 | → | j1n37 joins (~j1n37@user/j1n37) |
| 22:31:44 | × | j1n37 quits (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:36:02 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 22:47:35 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 22:51:52 | → | j1n37 joins (~j1n37@user/j1n37) |
| 22:51:56 | × | j1n37 quits (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:52:04 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 22:55:52 | → | j1n37 joins (~j1n37@user/j1n37) |
| 22:55:54 | × | j1n37 quits (~j1n37@user/j1n37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:56:34 | × | humasect quits (~humasect@dyn-192-249-132-90.nexicom.net) (Quit: Leaving...) |
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| 22:58:45 | × | tcard_ quits (~tcard@2400:4051:5801:7500:cf17:befc:ff82:5303) (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:02:58 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:03:52 | → | czan joins (~czan@user/mange) |
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| 23:07:21 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 23:08:29 | → | lisbeths joins (uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com) |
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| 23:18:19 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:22:54 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
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| 23:26:07 | → | edwtjo joins (~edwtjo@h-155-4-52-89.A213.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 23:26:07 | × | edwtjo quits (~edwtjo@h-155-4-52-89.A213.priv.bahnhof.se) (Changing host) |
| 23:26:07 | → | edwtjo joins (~edwtjo@fsf/member/edwtjo) |
| 23:30:06 | × | haritz quits (~hrtz@user/haritz) (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in) |
| 23:33:42 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:38:12 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 23:40:50 | → | Ranhir joins (~Ranhir@157.97.53.139) |
| 23:49:03 | → | merijn joins (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) |
| 23:53:23 | × | merijn quits (~merijn@host-cl.cgnat-g.v4.dfn.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 23:56:20 | × | Googulator quits (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-2025-8806-aadb-981f-aee0.pool6.digikabel.hu) (Quit: Client closed) |
| 23:56:36 | → | Googulator joins (~Googulato@2a01-036d-0106-2025-8806-aadb-981f-aee0.pool6.digikabel.hu) |
| 23:58:39 | × | emmanuelux quits (~em@user/emmanuelux) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
All times are in UTC on 2026-03-17.