Logs on 2026-03-27 (liberachat/#haskell)
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| 07:47:30 | <gentauro> | Hmmmm, no longer works? https://book.realworldhaskell.org/ |
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| 07:49:12 | divlamir_ | is now known as divlamir |
| 07:50:00 | <haskellbridge> | <sm> https://www.extrema.is/articles/haskell-books/real-world-haskell -> updated version works |
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| 07:53:12 | <gentauro> | sm: thx |
| 07:54:45 | <gentauro> | sm: the link to the online book from your link is the same link as I used |
| 07:55:01 | <gentauro> | I guess I'll just use the waybackmachine |
| 07:55:46 | <gentauro> | nevermind -> https://github.com/tssm/up-to-date-real-world-haskell |
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| 08:33:55 | gentauro | working with ASCII control codes. I noticed most people either use the DEC, HEX or Abbreviation (char) notation. For example: '\000', '\0x00' or '\NUL'. Not me, I'm ofc using the LAMBDA notaction (aka Caret notation): '\^@' xD |
| 08:34:42 | <gentauro> | Athas: I noticed that you are the maintainer of the `haskeline` package. Is that being used in `GHCi`? |
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| 08:41:12 | <tomsmeding> | gentauro: I think that rather, haskeline is extracted from ghci |
| 08:41:40 | <tomsmeding> | hm, or not! |
| 08:42:53 | <tomsmeding> | gentauro: https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/ghci.html#the-haskeline-file |
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| 08:47:34 | <gentauro> | tomsmeding: nice !!! |
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| 08:51:59 | <Athas> | gentauro: yes, I sometimes get GHC people telling me not to do stuff due to GHC's byzantine build system. |
| 08:52:17 | <tomsmeding> | fun :) |
| 08:52:21 | <Athas> | That said, I'm not really a maintainer. More of a custodian. |
| 08:52:33 | <gentauro> | <3 |
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| 09:01:03 | <monkeygirl> | shit! |
| 09:01:07 | <monkeygirl> | acidjnk_new3 |
| 09:01:09 | <monkeygirl> | chele |
| 09:01:11 | <monkeygirl> | mistivia |
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| 09:09:53 | <gentauro> | okay … |
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| 09:33:41 | <geekosaur> | ping spammer 😦 |
| 09:34:27 | <geekosaur> | ghci originally used gnu readline, but between macs whose "readline" is bsd editline and windows (no got) haskeline was written as a replacement |
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| 10:16:11 | <mesaoptimizer> | geekosaur: you are just jealous that they didn't ping you |
| 10:16:55 | <mesaoptimizer> | I think nobody uses windows vanilla anymore for any dev work -- everyone uses WSL (ubuntu) |
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| 10:29:42 | <tomsmeding> | never say nobody |
| 10:30:19 | <tomsmeding> | I know a university here that requires (bachelor = undergraduate) students to have windows because they decided to do the bachelor program in C# |
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| 10:30:59 | <tomsmeding> | resulting in annoyances with the courses that do not do C# |
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| 10:57:27 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> And also annoyances with people that value their freedom. Id switch unis. Which one is this? |
| 10:57:32 | <haskellbridge> | <magic_rb> Which uni can i make fun of |
| 11:01:10 | <mesaoptimizer> | tomsmeding: by WSL I meant that your host OS is Windows, and it runs ubuntu as a VM with almost native support for hardware and file system access: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux |
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| 11:15:00 | <probie> | tomsmeding: you can write (and run) C# without using Windows; it hasn't been "Windows only" for the past 10 years |
| 11:19:46 | <__monty__> | Mono definitely was a bit of a second class citizen. Don't know how convenient it is now. |
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| 11:29:23 | <probie> | I wasn't referring to Mono, I was referring to Microsoft adding Linux support to .NET |
| 11:30:28 | <__monty__> | Wasn't that done through Mono? |
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| 11:35:03 | <probie> | Mono was a FOSS implementation of .NET done because .NET was originally proprietary. Since 2016 however, .NET is released under an open source license, and coinciding with that first open sourcing release; Microsoft added Linux support |
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| 11:38:18 | <Maxdamantus> | Though I don't seem to see any .NET or PowerShell or something in debian. |
| 11:38:24 | <__monty__> | I thought that basically was Mono, because they acquired Xamarin. |
| 11:38:54 | <Maxdamantus> | There's still mono in Debian. |
| 11:42:24 | <Maxdamantus> | Seems to be in alpine. |
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| 11:43:16 | <Maxdamantus> | $ docker run --rm -it alpine sh -c 'apk add powershell && pwsh' |
| 11:43:42 | <Maxdamantus> | dotnet included in the installed packages. |
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| 12:27:54 | <gentauro> | tomsmeding: are they teaching Windows Forms? |
| 12:28:31 | <gentauro> | basic .NET (C#) programming can easily be taught with `dotnet` (as in `core`) which runs on most OS/devices |
| 12:31:08 | gentauro | `"They start with functional programming, so imperative and so object-oriented. With F# you can better show the differences between the approaches. Otherwise it could drown in different syntax and type systems between the languages," explains associate professor and study leader Torben Mogensen from the Department of Computer Science at the University of Copenhagen to Version2`. Source: |
| 12:31:14 | gentauro | https://www.version2.dk/artikel/funktionelle-sprog-er-tilbage-efter-aars-automatisk-brug-af-objektorientet-programmering (Danish) |
| 12:31:24 | <gentauro> | it's a good approach to teach the diff paradigms and not get lost in translation |
| 12:31:32 | gentauro | Athas are you guys still doing this at DIKU? |
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| 12:51:58 | <L29Ah> | lost my precious ghci history when power ran out |
| 12:52:20 | <L29Ah> | apparently ghci only saves history when exiting :( |
| 12:54:50 | <mesaoptimizer> | L29Ah: try https://github.com/DataHaskell/sabela if it fits your needs, I've been quite enthuasiastic about it |
| 12:55:42 | <mesaoptimizer> | One downside with GHCi and sabela is that they don't have HLS integration but that's a problem anyway if you don't use actual Haskell files, I believe |
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| 12:56:18 | <probie> | gentauro: The Australian National University teaches some Haskell, and then moves to Java. Based on my experience tutoring the relevant courses, there's not a huge amount of friction generated by the change in syntax and type systems. This seems a bit like a "premature optimisation" |
| 12:57:15 | <mesaoptimizer> | 'how to torture university students' |
| 12:57:21 | <L29Ah> | https://github.com/haskell/haskeline/issues/5 :_( |
| 12:59:05 | <mesaoptimizer> | perhaps you could optimize the pain. what is the optimal first language and second language to make uni students use, such that you can traumatize them with the second? |
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| 13:02:06 | <mesaoptimizer> | I considered Agda and then assembler, but assembler does have a coherent semantics in terms of the user facing ISA so that wouldn't count |
| 13:02:43 | <mesaoptimizer> | I think yaml files / kubernetes / system admin would be maximally painful as a second course |
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| 13:20:42 | <Athas> | L29Ah: PRs welcome! |
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| 13:24:17 | <L29Ah> | Athas: https://github.com/haskell/haskeline/pull/148 |
| 13:28:46 | <Athas> | Oh, there's a stale one. Does it still work? |
| 13:31:55 | <L29Ah> | Athas: i don't know, i don't want to rebuild my entire haskell ecosystem to check if it works because it modifies a bundled ghc library |
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| 14:08:23 | <gentauro> | probie: my "batch" (at DIKU) did: SML (MoscowML) -> Java -> C -> … -> OCaml but never learned Haskell at uni. Did afterwards (if your uni doesn't teach you to teach yourself complex topics, then they aren't doing it right) |
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| 14:27:48 | <geekosaur> | advance notice: I'll be taking my laptop down this weekend to replace the battery. the bridge will be down during the repair. |
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| 14:30:49 | <ski> | gentauro : Olivier Danvy,Andrzej Filinski,Julia Lawall,Karoline Malmkjer,Peter Sestoft ? |
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| 15:10:45 | <gentauro> | ski: don't forget: Torben Mogensen, Mads Tofte (SML and proof road "the monad paper" from Moggi), Carsten Gomard (Partial evaluation with Sestoft and Neil D. Jones), Fritz Henglein (generic discrimination), … |
| 15:11:24 | <gentauro> | Jakob Grue could also be added to the mix (and Athas with Futhark) |
| 15:11:42 | gentauro | however, the final boss of them all is Filinski xD |
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| 15:14:07 | <eelcunt> | A woman is at a bar and meets a guy with no arms and no legs. |
| 15:14:07 | <eelcunt> | She asks, "How do you have sex?" |
| 15:14:08 | <eelcunt> | The guy smirks and says, "How do you think I knocked on the door?" |
| 15:14:19 | <gentauro> | oh, forgot Martin Elsman (SML) |
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| 15:15:13 | <gentauro> | btw, can these bots go over to the #fsharp channel on Libera? Nothing really happens at that channel. Not even bot attacs xD |
| 15:15:28 | <eelcunt> | "Sex is like playing bridge." |
| 15:15:28 | <eelcunt> | "If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand." |
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| 15:39:06 | <ski> | gentauro : mm, i recognize Mads Tofte. not as sure about those others |
| 15:39:39 | ski | recalls binge-reading papers by Filinski & Danvy |
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| 15:45:20 | gentauro | «Olivier Danvy is a renowned computer scientist known primarily as the most thanked (acknowledged) researcher in the field based on an analysis of over 300,000 scientific papers» |
| 15:45:41 | <gentauro> | https://lists.racket-lang.org/users/archive/2004-December/007478.html |
| 15:47:47 | <ski> | (ah, yes. Elsman, with the ML Kit) |
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| 16:26:56 | <tomsmeding> | gentauro, probie: I dunno honestly, they do some things that were difficult with mono a few years back at least, and apparently they still have issues |
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| 16:38:43 | <gentauro> | tomsmeding: I've been quite surprised with F# and `dotnet` (core) 10 LTS. The field sharing discrimitated unions is a HUGE performance booster. Some operations are going down all the way to single digit nano-seconds |
| 16:38:56 | gentauro | lookup units-of-measure |
| 16:42:34 | <gentauro> | I advice this guys -> https://iev.ee/blog/resharp-how-we-built-the-fastest-regex-in-fsharp/ to give it a try. This is his comment: « Ian Erik Varatalu 11:42 PM By the way i added he field sharing into the dotnet version, the struct size went down from 56B to 16B!» |
| 16:42:38 | <gentauro> | good stuff |
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| 17:15:00 | ski | . o O ( "the result is RE#, the first general-purpose regex engine to support intersection, complement and lookarounds with linear-time guarantees" ) |
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All times are in UTC on 2026-03-27.