Home liberachat/#xmonad: Logs Calendar

Logs on 2021-06-27 (liberachat/#xmonad)

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11:28:32 <Solid> these responses from the gnome-panel maintainer rub me the wrong way somehow
11:35:42 <liskin> that's kind of expected, no?
11:36:42 <liskin> at least they're not telling us that we're utter fools who should've stopped supporting X11 years ago and joined their cult of forcing wayland upon users
11:37:42 <liskin> (which other gnome folks like Bastien would probably do if we were foolish enough to highlight them)
11:40:58 <liskin> anyway, the important thing is that we still have no idea what's the root cause, and if setting struts is not it, any further discussion about what struts gnome-panel sets is probably going to be unproductive
11:44:58 <Solid> Well, this is my first direct interaction with a gnome dev, so it's surprising to me :)
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12:06:47 <liskin> Oh :-)
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15:09:38 <kenny1> Hi everybody! This is uh my first time on the #xmonad IRC channel, but the rest of the comunity has been pretty pleasant so I thought I'd give it a go
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15:10:37 <Solid> hi :)
15:11:17 <kenny1> how long have you been on xmonad?
15:12:05 <Solid> my config says "First Edit: 28jun2019" and git history only goes back that far, so around that time I think
15:12:59 <kenny1> Oh wow that's uhhhhhh I can't math, but at least a little while
15:13:13 <nomadx> god those were the days
15:13:16 <nomadx> pre covid
15:13:20 <nomadx> wife still loved me etc
15:13:36 <Solid> well in comparison to other devs it's not a long time at all :P
15:13:48 <kenny1> maybe she still does?
15:13:53 <Solid> some people around here have been using xmonad for over 10 years or so
15:14:03 <kenny1> oh lord that's a long time
15:14:19 <kenny1> Is it ever possible to truly learn haskell?
15:14:26 <kenny1> I feel like they might know
15:14:51 <Solid> hah, sure
15:15:01 <Solid> haskell is not as foreign as some people make it out to be (at least imo)
15:15:32 <kenny1> I mean I'm starting to wrap my mind around it
15:16:14 <kenny1> just what is it really used for? I heard facebook's spam filter uses it
15:18:06 <Solid> Lots of companies use it; I think the original creators of xmonad got swallowed by banks
15:18:37 <kenny1> What do you mean?
15:18:40 <kenny1> by the bank thing
15:19:42 <geekosaur> haskell is heavily used in finance. but anyone who gets hired by a bank to do haskell ends up signing an nda that effectively prohibits their working with it outside the bank
15:20:01 <Solid> ^
15:20:38 <kenny1> woah alright
15:20:53 <kenny1> you learn something new every day huh
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15:26:04 liskin thinks he'll never truly learn Haskell :-/
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15:27:07 <liskin> ekmett's packages full of category theory stuff may just be beyond the capabilities of my brain
15:27:35 <Solid> that's probably mostly you not having the category theory background
15:27:53 <Solid> (and the fact that these have almost no docs :>)
15:28:22 <liskin> well I did try to get one :-)
15:30:08 <liskin> might have tried harder, perhaps made the mistake of not getting a background in set theory first, but it did feel more complex than all the other stuff at uni
15:30:56 <Solid> it does help to have a mathematics background in general
15:31:10 <Solid> because like all of the examples come from the rest of mathematics
15:31:53 <Solid> not necessarily set theory, just like a basic course in abstract algebra would probably help immensely
15:32:31 <liskin> I definitely did have algebra before that
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15:33:52 <liskin> actually ended up using lattices a lot at work
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15:35:14 <Solid> oh that's pretty cool
15:35:41 <Solid> I'm trying to remember what I knew back when I took my first category theory course
15:36:09 <Solid> but I think it was just a bit of group and ring theory, plus some differential geometry
15:36:25 <Solid> I had not taken a proper set theory/mathematical logic course at that point
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15:38:41 <liskin> (we were building a language for analytical queries over databases so that people wouldn't need to care about the structure of tables and joins, the data model was a partial order/DAG, and then the lattice of antichains in that partial order was used for the types of query results)
15:39:35 <liskin> those were fun times
15:39:48 <Solid> kind of a bummer that lattices have fallen out of fashion nowadays
15:39:52 <Solid> not many people studying them anymore
15:40:25 <liskin> we had a prototype impl in Haskell that I somehow managed to compile for arm and run on the Nokia N900
15:40:40 <Solid> what? :D
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15:41:03 <liskin> that thing had a 256M RAM and 768M swap
15:41:19 <liskin> but I think the build involved qemu and a lot more swap :-)
15:41:41 <liskin> that running on phone thing was done just for shit and giggles
15:41:50 <Solid> that is absolutely amazing
15:42:21 <liskin> and to show everyone that a simple implementation can run faster than the old production code with mysql that we were replacing
15:43:38 <liskin> the prototype ended up being useful for testing as well
15:44:14 <liskin> I had a quickcheck property that would generate a random query and compute it once using the prototype, and once using a shell script that invoked the prod impl in perl/erlang and run the queries on postgres
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15:44:34 <liskin> it was slow but it would catch most of the corner cases in hours
15:45:13 <liskin> (the new prod impl, the old one was perl only and we didn't really attempt a bug-for-bug rewrite)
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17:46:53 <k8[m]> <liskin "ekmett's packages full of catego"> who is ekmett🤔
17:49:45 <Solid> the guy who wrote half of hackage's libraries :)
17:54:56 <k8[m]> hahah I was about to say I looked the hackage page in awe: https://hackage.haskell.org/user/EdwardKmett
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18:40:13 <meowray> weird, no layout works. all windows occupy the whole screen space. the same config works fine on another machine
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18:53:50 <geekosaur> @where paste
18:53:51 <lambdabot> Help us help you: please paste full code, input and/or output at e.g. https://paste.tomsmeding.com
18:54:35 <meowray> i even tried a minimal config. no layout - every window occupies the whole space. i even copied the good "xmonad" executable from that working machine - no luck
18:57:34 <geekosaur> that's odd. any messages in the session error log? (usually something like ~/.xsession-errors, or for startx it'll be the original vt)
18:58:24 <geekosaur> going Full like that usually mean an exception occurred while processing the layout, but that usually requires something like a font-using layout and the default config doesn't use one
18:59:57 <meowray> no ~/.xsession-errors ; my xmonad.hs has xmobar and xmobar displays, but all windows occupy the full space thus shadow the xmobar at the bottom.
19:00:25 <meowray> "mean an exception occurred while processing the layout" - i guess this is what happened to me...
19:04:22 <geekosaur> default config will do that, and if there's only one window a layout will often behave like Full anyway. you need `docks` from xmonad-config for docks to show
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All times are in UTC on 2021-06-27.