Logs on 2021-07-18 (liberachat/#xmonad)
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| 18:28:36 | <irishlucklinux[m> | hello, does anyone know where to get xmonad-contrib on openbsd? |
| 18:36:30 | <geekosaur> | o.O |
| 18:36:43 | geekosaur | wonders which dependency is missing |
| 18:40:44 | <geekosaur> | has to be X11-xft, which I don't see anywhere in the ports tree in any form, hm |
| 18:41:00 | <geekosaur> | but I thought gtk depended on xft as well |
| 18:41:35 | <geekosaur> | anyway you may have to get it from hackage and build it yourself |
| 18:42:58 | <irishlucklinux[m> | ok |
| 18:52:05 | <geekosaur> | huh, I am seeing that openbsd has only an ancient version of freetype for some reason? that may be why no X11-xft and therefore no xmonad-contrib |
| 18:55:42 | <geekosaur> | although it should be possible to build with -f!use_xft in that case |
| 18:57:32 | <Solid> | I think we had some people in here a while ago who said that the openbsd folks stopped packaging xmonad in favour of telling users to install via stack/cabal |
| 18:59:01 | <Solid> | irishlucklinux[m: if you're not sure how to compile xmonad-contrib yourself then check out https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/blob/master/INSTALL.md |
| 18:59:25 | <irishlucklinux[m> | thanks |
| 19:51:30 | <diaspora[m]> | Solid: That's very strange to hear. OpenBSD cultivates the reputation of being security-focused, so recommending that users install code "under the radar" by using language-specific installers instead of the distro's own package manager is the opposite of what one would expect. |
| 19:52:48 | <geekosaur> | I'd only think that if I believed there was any chance they'd security-audited all of ports, tbh |
| 19:53:02 | <geekosaur> | which seems unlikely |
| 19:55:37 | <diaspora[m]> | Aren't the packages in BSD ports installed with OpenBSD's own package manager? It's been a long time since I've had an instance of OpenBSD around. Or any other BSD for that matter. |
| 19:57:42 | <geekosaur> | yes "but" the Makefile or things under its control can write basically anywhere |
| 19:58:06 | <geekosaur> | does openbsd sandbox ports to a non-root user? (freebsd ports doesn't, I know) |
| 20:16:14 | <diaspora[m]> | The issue is that although the contents of packages installed by the distro's own package manager may not be validated by OpenBSD peeps, the package manager does at least know what version it has installed and where. If problems arise this allows them to be pinned to some specific code, which is step #1 in dealing with it. That knowledge is missing when packages creep in under the radar. And it becomes especially bad when dependencies are |
| 20:16:14 | <diaspora[m]> | stored under normal user permissions which puts them at risk of being modified by user-run code without the user's knowledge. All bets are off under those conditions, since even trusted dependencies can then become part of an attack vector. |
| 20:18:10 | <diaspora[m]> | Which is why it surprised me to hear that OpenBSD would want its package manager out of the loop. |
| 20:31:41 | <diaspora[m]> | It's possible that it was only hearsay, or stated by some OpenBSD user rather than being actual OpenBSD policy. It would be good to know, so that misinformation isn't propagated. |
| 20:32:47 | <geekosaur> | well, I found a mirror of openbsd ports on github that still had xmonad |
| 20:32:55 | <geekosaur> | no idea how current it is though |
| 20:34:10 | <geekosaur> | "6 hours ago" per commit log |
| 20:34:31 | <geekosaur> | so I'd guess it's false |
| 20:35:00 | <geekosaur> | or at least the claim that they were removing xmonad from ports is false |
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| 20:43:48 | <geekosaur> | hrm, freebsd doesn't package xmonad-contrib either |
| 20:43:57 | <geekosaur> | wonder what's up with that |
| 20:49:04 | <geekosaur> | oh, interesting. wayback machine for freshports.org says "Ignore IGNORE: Haskell libraries are getting pushed out of the ports tree. If you are using this library for your XMonad config, see x11-wm/hs-xmonad/pkg-message file." |
| 20:51:45 | <geekosaur> | so apparently they are recommending stack/cabal for haskell stuff now |
| 20:54:52 | <diaspora[m]> | In case it helps, any distro can install the Nix package manager running alongside their native manager, and that provides quite strong security benefits like known installs through hashes, as well as immutability. The nixpkgs repository contains the package "xmonad-with-packages", which might be related to xmonad-contrib, perhaps a curated subset. |
| 20:55:48 | <geekosaur> | subset seems unlikely, unless they really want to maintain their own version of xmonad-contrib |
| 20:56:09 | <geekosaur> | it's not broken up, it's 200+ modules in a single package (sigh) |
| 20:56:29 | <diaspora[m]> | Oh dear ... |
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| 21:01:15 | <geekosaur> | aaaaand there goes my network again, speaking of "sigh" |
| 21:02:55 | <diaspora[m]> | geekosaur: I just checked what got installed on NixOS with the package "xmonad-with-packages" bundle: |
| 21:03:02 | <diaspora[m]> | > /nix/store/i83j51383fbyv42nnncj2hrplfh52la3-xmonad-contrib-0.16.drv |
| 21:03:04 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘/’ |
| 21:03:09 | <diaspora[m]> | \o/ |
| 21:04:31 | <diaspora[m]> | So, Nix to the rescue if distros start dropping xmonad-contrib. |
| 21:05:08 | <geekosaur> | yeh, I just dug that out of google. seems to innclude xmonad-contrib, xmonad-extras, and maybe xmonad-log-applet |
| 21:05:26 | <geekosaur> | not sure what they mean by "monad-logger" |
| 21:06:31 | <geekosaur> | since neither xmonad nor xmonad-contrib uses haskell's monad-logger in any fashion |
| 21:06:42 | <geekosaur> | and I doubt they did the surgery to add it |
| 21:08:48 | <diaspora[m]> | Perhaps it's this, found in "nix search xmonad": |
| 21:09:10 | <diaspora[m]> | > * nixos.xmonad-log (xmonad-log) |
| 21:09:10 | <diaspora[m]> | > xmonad DBus monitoring solution |
| 21:09:11 | <lambdabot> | error: |
| 21:09:12 | <lambdabot> | Variable not in scope: xmonad :: t0 -> t1 -> t2 -> terror: Data construc... |
| 21:09:12 | <lambdabot> | • Variable not in scope: solution |
| 21:09:12 | <lambdabot> | <hint>:1:1: error: parse error on input ‘*’ |
| 21:09:24 | <geekosaur> | that'd be xmonad-log-applet |
| 21:09:33 | <geekosaur> | I use it since I log to mate-panel |
| 21:11:24 | <diaspora[m]> | xmonad_log_applet_mate is a separate package, according to search. |
| 21:11:28 | <geekosaur> | but what I was talking about was this in xmonad.nix: haskellPackages.monad-logger |
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| 21:18:17 | <geekosaur> | yes, the source can build for 3 possible targets (mate, gnome2, xfce) |
| 21:18:41 | <geekosaur> | not sure how that interferes withy nix's view of the world |
| 21:20:23 | ← | beaker106[m] parts (~beaker106@2001:470:69fc:105::ab9) () |
| 21:23:32 | <diaspora[m]> | They're separate packages in Nix, one for each of them. |
| 21:25:05 | <geekosaur> | presumably it doesn't like each having different lists of installed files and installation locations |
| 21:31:06 | <diaspora[m]> | Nix is entirely happy to have multiple versions of a package installed side by side and used concurrently. It doesn't suffer from dependency hell because everything is installed in its own hashed suddirectory under /nix/store --- a major benefit compared to most other package managers. That alone is reason enough to have Nix installed alongside a distro's native package manager to overcome its limitations. |
| 21:32:16 | <geekosaur> | so then it's just exposing that in the form of different packages for each possibility |
| 21:35:25 | <diaspora[m]> | Yup. Good chance that what a person wants is in there already, as nixpkgs is a huge repo and growing all the time. |
| 21:39:27 | <diaspora[m]> | > "Nixpkgs is a collection of over 60,000 software packages that can be installed with the Nix package manager. It also implements NixOS, a purely-functional Linux distribution." |
| 21:39:29 | <lambdabot> | "Nixpkgs is a collection of over 60,000 software packages that can be instal... |
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All times are in UTC on 2021-07-18.